I'm Liberal and Catholic and I LOVE my religion!

I consider my Faith to be the driving force behind my Social/Political/Environmental/Spiritual views. It is the impetus for my activism and the shining light in my life.

Do I have disagreements with the Church? I sure do, but the true nature of the Church is love. Plain and simple.

Granted my faith is nurtured by Capuchin Franciscan friars who have a liberal, joyful, tolerant and loving faith. Many people have been raised in a very different Catholic environment.

I'm sure I'll get flamed but I don't care: I AM PROUD TO BE CATHOLIC!

It's not easy being green.

cause I don't try to convert them or evangelize

of any faith to find what spiritualism they can in any religion of their choice.

Agree 100%

There's nothing wrong about being proud of your religion and heritage.

:toast:

I was baptized Catholic but I choose to be a pagan and I am proud of it just as you are proud of your choice.


I think most of us have searched our souls and have arrived at a belief system that they we proud of. Unlike most freeper types, we do not let someone else decide what we are going to believe in.

Well put

:)

At least it's consistant. A fetus deserves to live, and so does a
murderer.

It's okay if you're gay so long as you're not having sex. But that goes for all the straight people too, unless they are only doing it to make a baby and aren't having any fun.

Seems to be about tolerance and forgivness.

The cannabilsm in communion bothers me a little.

Oh, and as I recall from Pres. Bartlett, it takes good works in addition to accepting jesus to get into heaven (is that right? if it is, that's pretty cool).

I'm also a big fan of the lutherans (catholic lite - all the god and half the guilt!)

Especially Catholics. We get a bad wrap for the bad things that happen in our church while the charities go largely unrecognized

Episcopalians are Catholic Lite...

Some Lutherans are hard core.

As are some in all faiths, I imagine.

There are differences. I recall several years ago, attending mass at my church (in Chicago's 11th ward -- ancestral home of the Daley clan and staunch, even if not necessarily liberal Democrats). It was during the Lewinsky affair. Our pastor said, "the president has apologized, and this is not our business -- it is a matter for him, his family and his preacher..." or something to that effect.

A week or so later, I was attending the baptism of a friend's child in Dixon, IL (about 2 hrs west of Chicago). This, some may know, is in Dennis Hastert's district, and is the boyhood home of one Ronald W. Reagan. The Catholic priest there said that Clinton was setting a poor moral example for all Americans, and should be ashamed of himself.

Side note: at my church, those wishing to have their kids baptised are free to do so. My friends in Dixon had to lie to the priest about their marriage, saying it was in a church in another town, rather than in court, in order to have their kid baptised.

Incidentally, I am among the happy Catholics who approach the buffet of faith and leave behind the things that don't suit me.

I'm not Catholic, but I 100% support your right to be Catholic and love being Catholic.

P.S. If this thread is in response to a seeming dislike of religion on this board, I'd like to express an opinion. It's not W's faith that is objectionable, it's the way he's used it to wage a "Crusade" against those who feel differently that is objectionable.

(I also seem to know a lot of people raised as Catholics who no longer consider themselves Catholic).

I don't have a problem with the idea that someone can be a Catholic and not agree 100% with the pope. I don't think anyone agrees 100% with anyone else, anyway.

we are not critical of individual catholics (atleast i am not) however being gay its kind of difficult to accept a pope who condemns us...yet hides the pedophiles in his own backyard

with that said...i can completely understand why this position from DU is frustrating to you...and you have every right to be proud of your religion...i am glad it gives you joy and comfort..

difference is what makes us so vibrant

The church teaches that God loves everyone - even when they're sinning. I can understand Gay people saying "my love is not a sin" well my point is even if it is God loves you and is reading your heart and following your actions and loves you.

I will always accept and support you! And I won't try to sway your beliefs in any way!

:toast:

You're entitled to your beliefs, and you seem to respect the same for others, so no problem.

I admire conviction and belief!

:toast:

as you should, take it back. my husband catholic, the only two friends i have met in texas are catholic. that is amazing really in a bible belt

My personal beliefs veer toward a mystical agnosticism (or is that just gnosticism?)

However, I'm not ashamed of the faith my family brought over from Ireland. Living in Texas, I've often found myself defending it against people who have some very weird ideas about Catholicism.

The Church has survived so long because it can change--although very slowly. I truly hope that it can continue to evolve into the next millenium.

and I'm a Lesbian. When our Father gives Mass I listen with not only with my ears but with my heart. If he feels that the Pope is wrong he is not scare to say so. He says the Church is about Love not Hate and to Respect one other. There is nothing wrong with Religion just in how it is used to hurt others.

Follow your heart - it always leads in the right way!

I am liberal because of being Catholic. I love the church. I also disagree with some of Cannon Law and the Pope. But nonetheless, it is my Church and my religion. Christ was about love and commitment to your follow humans. That is extremely liberal, and that is what I am.

God is a Liberal - pretty good for us, we got him on our side!!!

But I am happy for you :loveya:

Isn't it great to be in a TRULY INCLUSIVE party?

:yourock:

I'm with you - I'm rediscovering my Catholicism and I'm proud of my church in many ways, particularly in its service to the poor. Got so psyched up I discerned for the pastoral council and was selected last April.

You said perfectly what I've been thinking about the crossroads of religion and political outlook. Thanks! :thumbsup:

My faith demanded I protest the war last Feb. and was very happy to see many many nuns in the streets!

I just think of how St Francis would be reacting to all this!

but I am happy that your experience is a positive one
Ciao

If liberals/progressives were really so tolerant, you shouldn't be flamed at all...


I for one am happy to have you here!

:)

I am happy to have Chavez here too. Welcome Chavez and other liberal Catholics.

The church would be broke right now except for passing the plate in poor 3rd world countries that are under-educated, over-populated, some with a high rate of hiv infection. In return they teach that the only acceptable form of contraception is the rhythm method. Repressive anachronism? Ask again if you'd like another specific.

This was just one of many points that I would have liked to discuss with you and other well meaning catholics - I'm sure there are many good people the church.

Pax Vobiscum

The issue of the church and condoms is one of my biggest problems. The ultra conservative heads of the Vatican (Though the Pope is supreme there are others involved in the papacy - I think of it more as a group than 1 person - the pope was a liberal in Poland) should reconsider this stance. There are many liberals in the church who differentiate between contraception and a contraceptive mindset. The church should allow condoms to save lives. They should preach abstinence IN CONJUNCTIOn with allowing condoms.

Well at least you are honest about it. So may I assume that your pride in catholicism is somewhat tempered by at least this one oppressive anachronism?

What about the role of women in the church? I personally don't know many women who are willing to accept a distinctly second class status in any organization. No priesthood, specifically barred from ever attaining any high position? Is this another repressive anachronism?

You already know about these thorny issues. But ask again if you want another specific.

However notice the broad scope of both issues addressed so far. These are very serious problems that I (and many people) have with the church. Not unlike 'apart from being a (fill-in-the-blank), he's a nice guy"!

Being a person with a strong devotion to the Virgin Mary I have the highest esteem for women. This is something that people will run up against forever because the Church will never have women Priests. The reason for this is that Priests are an Alternate Christ. They represent Christ in our liturgy. In the Catholic teachings Christ was male by natural law thus the Priest must be male. Since Vatican II women can do everything but be a Priest or Deacon. They can be Eucharistic ministers. That might not sound like much but it's huge.

In t he secular world women can do anything men can (usually better) but in the world of the Church there is a separation. It has nothing to do with"better" it's just different. Only a woman can be a physical mother and only a man can be a physical father.

But the Church teaches thatthe only perfect human being God ever created was a woman. Women were the ones at the foot of the cross. Jesus spent most of his time with women according to scripture. Jesus was a feminist - did he not stop the adultress from being stoned?

I know that you're a force for good both in the world at large and within your religion. For that I say: God Bless You

Just one final point: I have a very close relative who suffers from MS, one of the diseases that could benefit from stem cell research. Your church has been very influential in the U.S. in blocking this research. Isn't this a form of horrible repression of my loved one and thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions?

Pax Vobiscum

That's my feeling.

This is fun, if you have anything else.

Otherwise - Peace and Blessings on you and yours!

Ps - I think Malcolm X is in heaven! Just to preemt a possible question!

I mean no disrespect to your sister and your family. Please accept my apologies.

There are all kinds of justifications for prejudice. Your church could just as well say that since Christ was a human - then only humans could hold the priesthood. Or only men with beards.

But an argument based on symantics like that doesn't get you very far.

Your church seems to have gotten lots of mileage out of just such semantics. Many people believe that a lot of what is frankly perceived as "mumbo jumbo" serves as a means to entrap peoples' souls while setting themselves up for such amenities as the sin formerly known as unmentionable. I hope that catholics of good will take a respite from their expressions of pride and work to fix whats wrong with their faith. There are important moral issues extant that require our attention - like children about to be murdered in Fallujah. Has the pope spoken to address this issue? I didn't like your stem cell comments, but I accept your apology. If God alone can create life why be concerned that mere mortals might do it? It's a contradictory argument. We're not talking frankestein here. Why does your church promote so much misery in the world?

Pax

I meant God creates life - people. Embryos are embryos. Your sister should get every benefit modern science can provide. I was confusing. Another apology!

I am upset that he hasn't done more since. I think there needs to be more lay influence on the Boys Club that is the Church. I am a feminist and will stand up wherever women are repressed. If my Church is responsible for that I condemn that. I don't feel that women not being allowed to be Priests is opression.

Are you saying that you are OK with this position? It denigrates women at every turn. Don't liberals view men and women as equals? This viewpoint does not.

inferior. She can't be a Priest cause she's a woman. How is a woman losing anything by this?

I can't be a nun

What if the rule was that men couldn't fill the role of the officiator of their religions? Would you be losing anything by this? You betcha'! If you want a list of what women lose by this, I'd be happy to oblige--but it might take me a while to write it.

You and I disagree.

If you would calmly discuss I will calmly participate. If you want to get ugly I won't.

I believe that my Church needs more lay influence on its Boys Club heirarchy. You can't paint me to be any less"liberal" than I actually am.

from you. I think it's very interesting that, when you are asked to really examine your position, your interest in dialogue bluntly ends. Well, you did end this dialogue, so I shan't blather on. bah-bye....

Come on!

If anything it'd be a huge improvement and millions of people wouldn't have been killed in the Churches "Holy" wars. Go ahead and try to make me out as standing against womens' equality!

At some ethereal level (heavenly?) I understand Chavez's point about an intrinsic? equality that allows, or even by natural law requires, exclusive female and male "domains". But we live in shrub country not some other imaginary space time continuum. One form of prejudice leads to another, an essential lesson of evolutionary moral philosophy. Your church largely abandoned its participation in the whole process of social progress sometime in the middle ages. Though I still like the outfits and you form a great parade.

:-)

Pax

I agree with you absolutely. The Church has a long way to go and it's very hard to have rigid gender roles and not cause friction. And the Bush fundies are making all Christians look bad.

I also agree iwth what you said earlier - we need constructive discourse to make the impact of the Church one of uplifting and help society. We need also to come clean and address the atrocities carried out by our Church. But at it's core all of that was the work of humans. Religion is the worst possible thing when misused (Bush's Iraq is the best example.) I am ALL ABOUT the Church doing concrete things to uplift all people!

Pax to you!
:)

I loved Umberto Eco's book "Name of the Rose", fascinating stuff. Some of his other books are over my head. The catholic missions on the Camino Real in CA are fascinating to visit and so is the story of their time. Monasteries, catholic or otherwise have had an important role in world history.

Whereas the Vatican and the Missions were the seat and tools of much opression, to be sure.

As a Capuchin, have you spent a lot of time studying your church's history? My guess is quite a lot. I read "The Finger Post" recently, an excellent story related to catholicism in England.

I'm just a lay parishoner. I have read some history and am always like new viewpoints. What is "The Finger Post" about?

Its a mystery/historical novel set in the 19th century. Most of the action is in and around Oxford and to a lesser degree London and northern Europe. Martin Luther has a role in the story. It's too easy to ruin the plot to say much more. If you enjoy the religious mystery genre of fiction you might also like Martin Cruz Smith's story Rose. A very nice read.

They have a monastary in Detroit. They feed lots of homeless people every day, they have a program to give food, clothing, furniture, etc., to families in need. They recently added on to their soup kitchen and have a very nice building to anchor a very poor neighborhood.
St. Vincent-Depaul Society is the same way, and is also a catholic charity.

And, I pray the prayer of St. Francis, the one that begins: "Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace".

do fantastic work. Many Catholics really take the lessons of helping the poor and hungry, opressed and naked very very seriously and THAT"S WHAT I"M TALKIN' 'BOUT!

Catholic charities take care of the poor & downtrodden of the world, as Jesus did.
It was either Robertson or Falwell who said on TV, "God does not love everyone." Their ilk thinks people are poor because they're wrong or evil in some way!

Religion is about love & forgiveness, or at least it should be!

Fundamentalism, on the other hand, is about hellfire & brimstone, fears & taboos. No wonder Ashcroft is such a warped, sad man.

I'm not a particularly religious person, but I respect those who find joy in their faith. Fundies are terrified of theirs, I think.

Liberals use New Testament thinking

They believe that God has already, before you are born, determined who is and isn't "saved". They further believe that God blesses in this life those He has chosen, so he gives them wealth and success as signs of his love for them.
This is unscriptural bs. They just keep trying to get that camel through the eye of the needle.

Will you be "Left Behind"?

I grew up in a rural right-wing Catholic church full of Republicans. But I have seen that there are tons of liberal Catholics all over America. Sure I don't agree with all of Rome's positions but I love my religion just the same.

proud to be a progressive Catholic

:toast:

:toast:

And I'm proud of!

Here's to you and your faith!

:toast:

Oh, do you guys not drink?
How's this? :)

:)

An Irish Catholic..hic...solute to you!

:beer:

:toast:

I don't follow everything in the S. Baptist doctrine. I do occassionally drink. When I came to Christ years ago, I prefered Southern Baptist because that was the Church of my youth. Do y'all know how hard it was to find a S. Baptist church that didn't preach politics from the pulpit?

I am 15 and I have not been to a lot of different Baptist churches. But at my church there are a lot of Repubs but I have never heard the preacher preach about politics.

Polish Catholic and proud of it.

We have survived all kinds of misbehavior and criminality by the human beings in the church.

There are so many saints in the church who have held fundamentally liberal teachings I can't begin to number them all. Many saints achieved their sainthood through good works to the poor like Katherine Drexel (yes, the Drexel of the investment banking house). She renounced her life of ease and spent it in service of other people. Quite a different take on the uses of wealth than the "I Got Mine" crowd!

Historically, the church has worked in the immigrant communities in this country for a better life for the down trodden ie St. Frances Cabrini.

Catholic and Liberal at the same time. See above

:toast:

I'm very liberal and as disgusted with the Catholic cult, as I am with most religions, except for the ones in ones own heart, own spirit and soul, that's where God is...Organized religions are complete lies and manipulation, used for wealth and controlling tactics, that have been used for centuries, to kill and destroy in the name of their religion and for conquest of more and more wealth.

Growing up an Italian practicing Catholic in San Francisco, I see now how the Catholic religion is just another way to control the masses through guilt and bullshit...an extremely wealthy organization is the Catholic "church" and very little filters down to the truly needy, as is the way of most corporations.

The Catholic church is so full on inconsistencies, convoluted logic, contradictions, denials and misinterpetations...

Even as a child I saw through the bullshit, the contradictions, one day the Pope say this, the next day something complexly different.

Based on the sexist King James version of the Bible...it's a wonder there are so many who follow this cult.

But people are frighten sheep and need to believe there is something more to life than what's around them, oh please, there just has to be more...or what would be the point of living? "I'm going to believe anyway...just in case."

I didn't know I was in a cult. But - from what you said It is a religion in my heart so - does that mean you approve?

Oh well, thanks for your input though!

(I'm not being sarcastic}

The Catholic church, in my opinion.

You have your opinion I have mine...

Neither of us will change our opinions.

So I say just be happy with your choices...I'm extremely happy with mine.

Good day and my very best to you and may your leaders live another hundred years.

:shrug:

Very Protestant! Beautiful language, though.

I'm not religious, myself, but would not presume to tell anyone "where God is".

I am not disappointed at the bile.

There are quite a few Catholics numbered among this agnostic's personal heroes, and your faith is your business anyway, not mine.

Polytheists and Pagans!!!

:toast:

As in...Jesus Christ was no "catholic."

Isn't catholicism a man-made construct which has evolved and changed over the centuries?

What did Jesus know of diamond-studded pointy hats and golden palaces lined with priceless art?

Are you proud to be, specifically, catholic, or more generically and spiritually, Christian?

I love parts of the Catholic Church and not so much others. I love being a Christian above all. I feel that the Roman Catholic Church as well as the Eastern Orthodox Churches trace their history (through apostolic succession) to the 12 deciples.

Isn't catholicism a man-made construct which has evolved and changed over the centuries?

Isn't religion?

Catholicism, which is why I ask about it specifically.

Living down here in the bible belt, I've met quite a few.

They also sink quite a bit of money into their buildings. Massive complexes on expensive real estate--that resemble headquarters of medium-sized insurance companies. No art there!

hierarchy. Having said that, I can't seem much difference between "do unto others" & 'first, do no harm". I'm glad that your faith is a comfort to you.

of a Catholic anymore.

and care about other people and that's what counts!

:toast: And if anyone tells you you're not a Christian, tell me and I'll kick their asses. _{(After securing Skittle's help of course)}

There's no such thing as too much virtual booze!

:toast:

My Agnosticism pretty much dictates my political, social, personal and professional life. I don't believe in God and I'm proud of it!

-P

:toast: - hic!

We do all sorts of good stuff in the areas of social justice, peace, and the environment, but the fundamentalists get all the publicity.

But trust me - let the fundies get all the wacko press. It's better for us sane folks!

:)