No right of return, Bush tells Palestinian refugees

Birds of a feather...

Likudniks bend over a Bush

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No right of return, Bush tells Palestinian refugees

U.S. President George W. Bush and Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon walk together after making a joint statement to reporters at the White House in Washington on Wednesday.

U.S. President George W. Bush told Palestinian refugees Wednesday that they can forget about ever returning to their ancestral homes.

Leaving Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon beaming at a joint press conference in Washington, Mr. Bush appeared to negate any right of return for Palestinian uprooted from what is now Israel.

Their future lies only in "the establishment of a Palestinian state and the settling of Palestinian refugees there rather than in Israel," he said.

The U.S. President twice referred to Israel as a Jewish state, alluding to arguments that allowing millions of Palestinian refugees to return there would alter the fundamental character of the country.

Mr. Bush said that it would be "unrealistic" for Israelis and Palestinians to negotiate based on the assumption of returning to 1949 armistice lines.

"The realities on the ground and in the region have changed greatly in the last several decades," Mr. Bush said. "And any settlement must take into account these realities."

more..

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040414.wbush0414/BNStory/International/

doesn't the right of return mean a destruction of the State of Israel?

It is not going to happen.

U.S. President George W. Bush told Palestinian refugees Wednesday that they can forget about ever returning to their ancestral homes.

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It's called using military force to beat people back so you can steal the land that was theirs.

It's sick - the fanatical settlers have no right to walk in under the bullets of the IDF... It was a military takeover.

Fundamentalism in ALL forms is vile - Jewish, Islamic and Christian. Most of those settlements are built by rabid Zionists who have no right to steal the land - that is a fact.

And you talk about 'compensating' the 'poor' Palestinians. You should start with your own Native people in America. The Department of Indian Affairs.

The truth is - the Buddhists or Hindus will most likely win in the end as they watch the 'children' of Abraham kill each other off. It seems there are elements on all three sides that want to do a circle shoot.

Fuck Texas. Fuck Cowboys.


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Information fed into the agency's computer system is disorganized and erroneous.
An estimated $5.8 billion has not been collected (since 1979) from companies that pump oil and gas from reservation lands, thus robbing Indians.
In some cases, money that belonged to individual Indians and tribes was deposited in slush funds through accounts set up under phony names.
There are thirty recent incidents in which federal employees were allegedly involved in theft, embezzlement and fraud on Indian reservations, yet few were prosecuted.
BIA sponsored Indian programs failed to improve the economies of reservations, and BIA failed to provide quality education for Indian children.
Housing programs are riddled with scandal, and housing in many areas is shockingly substandard.
Indian health remains poor, with diabetes reaching epidemic proportions on some reservations.
The BIA cannot manage its own money, or account for millions in equipment and supplies."

http://www.dickshovel.com/bur.html

I don't know where all that came from, but if you look back there at my post, then you'll notice all I did is to ask a simple question. I don't recall saying anything about the settlements at all.

considered.

That's the problem with compensation plans, it's hard to figure out who to compensate. Slavery reparations in the US do not really provide the best example of this, however. I think that Germany's attempts to compensate victims of the Holocaust is a good example. Deciding how much to pay each vicitim is very difficult, especially since few people had documentation after the war. Germany has given some forms of aid to Israel in the form of cheap VW Bugs in the 50's and 60's, and more recently they have sold Israel 3 submarines at bargain-basement prices.

I don't know how Israel would compensate the original Palestinians who were affected by the 1948 war. Most of those people are dead and gone by now anyway. I think if Israel wanted to, they could give financial aid to a Palestinian state, but I think beyond that any efforts would be bogged down in bureaucracy, legal claims and counterclaims.

Another important thing to mention is that a Palestinian research group conducted a study that said over 90% of Palestinians had no desire to live in Israel under any terms. Seems to me that the whole thing is a mute point.

I don't know how Israel would compensate the original Palestinians who were affected by the 1948 war. Most of those people are dead and gone by now anyway.

You're killing them off a bit prematurely. Plenty of people who were adults in 1948 are quite lively these days. They would be seventy-something if they were twenty-something back then. Their children are fifty-something at most and certainly know where the family lived before they became refugees.

The problem is that a lot of their ancestral homelands no longer exist as they were then. Cities and towns have been built where there were once olive groves and grazing lands for sheep and goats.


The Geneva Accord offers this formula for compensation for property lost by Palestinians. Maybe you'd prefer to critique something tangible...

9. Property Compensation

(a) Refugees shall be compensated for the loss of property
resulting from their displacement.

(b) The aggregate sum of property compensation shall be
calculated as follows:
i. The Parties shall request the International Commission to
appoint a Panel of Experts to estimate the value of Palestinians'
property at the time of displacement.
ii. The Panel of Experts shall base its assessment on the
UNCCP records, the records of the Custodian for Absentee
Property, and any other records it deems relevant. The Parties
shall make these records available to the Panel.
iii. The Parties shall appoint experts to advise and assist the
Panel in its work.
iv. Within 6 months, the Panel shall submit its estimates to the
Parties.
v. The Parties shall agree on an economic multiplier, to be
applied to the estimates, to reach a fair aggregate value of the
property.

(c) The aggregate value agreed to by the Parties shall
constitute the Israeli "lump sum" contribution to the International
Fund. No other financial claims arising from the Palestinian
refugee problem may be raised against Israel.

(d) Israel's contribution shall be made in installments in
accordance with Schedule X.

(e) The value of the Israeli fixed assets that shall remain intact
in former settlements and transferred to the state of Palestine
will be deducted from Israel's contribution to the International
Fund. An estimation of this value shall be made by the
International Fund, taking into account assessment of damage
caused by the settlements.

http://www.tikkun.org/community/geneva/index.cfm?action=full_text

If I wanted to lodge some sort of claim against Russia for driving my family out in a pogrom in 1903 (which I don't care to do anyway) I'd have to get some kind of proof that my family lived there in the first place. Right now all I've got is that my mom's aunt said that her dad said he came from Russia and was driven out by a cavalry unit that killed his parents. I believe the stories, but that's hardly a legal case.

How are Palestinians going to prove that they lived in modern-day Israel in the first place. Immediately after the 1948-49 war, the Red Cross, which was providing aid to the refugees, complained that many people who were just poor Egyptians and Jordanians came seeking aid. Since the Red Cross couldn't tell who was who, they had to provide relief to everyone. Israel can't just pay compensation to everybody who comes forward with a photo of the old family home without some kind of proof of the home's location. Almost 60 years after the fact, I think this would all be pretty hard, so I think that if there is going to be some kind of compensation, it will have to be given to the future Palestinian government and other institutions, not to individuals.

The EU endorsed no right of return for Cyprus - I wonder if they will object to Bush agreeing with Carter and Clinton on no right of return except to the West Bank/Gaza?


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1520&ncid=1520&e=1&u=/afp/20040414/pl_afp/mideast_us_bush

Bush embraces controversial Sharon plan

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) gave his blessing to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon controversial plan to pull out of Gaza but said an end to all Jewish settlements in Palestinian territories was "unrealistic."

In move likely to enrage the Palestinians and the Arab world, Bush also said Palestinian refugees must settle in an eventual Palestinian state, essentially ruling out their right of return to lands lost to Israel in 1948. <snip>

Bush vowed sustained support for "Israel's self-defense capability, including its rights to defend itself against terror" but said that the barrier Israeli is building in the West Bank must be temporary and not shape final borders. <snip>



http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA8LZOQ1TD.html

Palestinian Cabinet Minister Rejects Bush Pledges to Israel
By Mohammed Daraghmeh
Associated Press Writer

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) - Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia on Wednesday rejected statements made by President Bush implying that Israel would be allowed to keep some West Bank settlements in a peace agreement. <snip>

Minutes after Bush spoke, Qureia harshly criticized the president's stand. "He is the first president who has legitimized the settlements in the Palestinian territories when he said that there will be no return to the borders of 1967," he said. "We as Palestinians reject that, we cannot accept that, we reject it and we refuse it." <snip>

Sharon said he explained to Bush his plan to withdraw unilaterally from all of the Gaza Strip, along with a much smaller pullback in the West Bank, as steps to reduce friction with the Palestinians. On Monday, before leaving for Washington, Sharon listed five main settlement blocs Israel intends to keep in a final peace deal. <snip>

Sharon said he explained to Bush his plan to withdraw unilaterally from all of the Gaza Strip, along with a much smaller pullback in the West Bank, as steps to reduce friction with the Palestinians. On Monday, before leaving for Washington, Sharon listed five main settlement blocs Israel intends to keep in a final peace deal.

That doesn't sound good at all. The Gaza is about the worst place you'd ever hope to see. The poverty and the conditions of living are execrable. Giving the Gaza to the Palestinians without some right of return or compensation... and keeping any part of the West Bank (other than a few acres maybe, in exchange for land elsewhere) is insulting and really horrible.

The details aren't given here so far, but believe me... no human being should have to live in a place like the Gaza.

And someone else who commented on the reservations in the US... you are right also. No one should have to live in those conditions either. But, if you can believe it, Gaza is worse.

the finest in the Arab world!

- I would have guessed the Saudi or Oman university - but
"they" measure quality times number using such quality.

The Palestinian loves of education is almost - shall we say - "Jewish"

Sorry - just pulling on the chain. But it is true the ethic for getting kids educated - males AND females - is very strong - and the Gaza University is one of the best.

between europe and the US over the fate of palestine, with europe
supporting palestinean issues, and the american government supporting
the apartheid settlers and the ethnic cleansing project. It is the
most institutionally racist policy bagged up to look respectable..
a load of hogwash if you ask me. People who have their homes stolen
are done a crime. To talk trash about reducing crime and let these
people down is typical republican doublespeak.

around - Does he HAVE 2 announce it? Aren't we in enough hot water in the ME.