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Supormom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:19 PM
Original message
Poll: Inside Politics, CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/14/911.commission/
QUICKVOTE


Whose version of events do you think the 'bin Laden' memo supports?

The White House 35% 43747 votes

Richard Clarke 65% 80628 votes
Total: 124375 votes

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Bush_Sucks Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. How many times have they asked this question??
A million times...
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NeonLX Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hmmm...exact same numbers when I voted just now.
Prolly updates ever 60 seconds or sumpt'n...
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Reciprocity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well this looks good.
The White House 35% 43777 votes

Richard Clarke 65% 80729 votes

2:34 cntrl
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Daisey Mae Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. staying at 65% Clarke-35%White House
numbers are Clarke-80824
White House -43810
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Slide Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Don't read too much into this.
These are unscientific polls, naturally.

BREAKING NEWS: CNN live poll results always skew left due to their viewership. Fox live polls skew right.

Clarke served his function well, but in reality, his "poll numbers" are dropping. Nevertheless he managed to build the president's negatives and increase opposition to the war.

Now we need another one to use his fifteen minutes.
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Daisey Mae Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Are you kidding ?
Or just a Ditto Head ? Richard Clarke will go down in history for standing up to this national disgraceful Whitehouse.....
You are drinking the KOOL-AID............WAKE UP........Bush is going down.....
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Slide Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Hello Daisey Mae
No, I am not a ditto head. I am not drinking the kool-aid. And I have woken up.

I just sincerely believe that this type of poll, while entertaining, is not scientific and does not accurately reflect the true opinions of the American people. I cannot believe a support rate for Clark at 65% is realistic, and I believe the same question asked on Fox would show a dramatically different result.

But the credibility of Clarke is not the story. Clarke's value was in undermining Bush's credibility and raising overall White House negatives. He did this well.

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gemlake Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. The support rate for Clarke
should be much higher than 65%, in a "scientifically valid" poll. The man is a national hero and a truth teller. Have you read his book?

BTW--CNN is not the counterbalance to Faux News.
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Slide Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It would depend, IMO,
on how you framed the poll question, boreDem. (And thanks for the reply.) Everything I've seen in American polls indicates to me that we are a 50-50 nation. I think people often watch news outlets that reinforce their own views, and therefore voluntary poll participation will vary widely depending on the forum.

No, I have yet read the book, only excepts, etc. I like the guy, and I believe him. A fascinating individual. That's not my point, though. I'm just keeping it cold-blooded political, and I think his general election value will be short term (unless he lands a commentator job or something).
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comsymp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Welcome, Slide- couple things:
Edited on Thu Apr-15-04 03:06 PM by comsymp
You posted above that Clarke's value was to drive up Bush's negatives- I disagree. I believe that Clarke's primary value was to actually get a modicum of truth about what actually led up to 9/11 out into the public arena.

Other nit which needs picking- everything I've read says that we're more of a 33-33-33 nation, as opposed to 50-50.

I do, however, agree w/you that online polls are (my words) BS. But the opinion that CNN serves the Lefty POV is a sadly misinformed one.

ON EDIT: Clarke already has landed a commentary job... with one of the Majors, IIRC-
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Slide Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'll rethink and raise you
one nitpick, comsymp. I'll go with a nation of 40-40-20. And that's my final offer <g>.

Great point about the value of bringing truth to the American people. I admit I was overly cynical.

Unfortunately the commission degenerated into pathetic partisan squabbling. This is evidenced in the rapid emergence of "polls" where you can vote on who you "believe", or who did a better "job", or "who deserves blame", etc.

We really need, as a nation, to drop this blame game and move forward. Maybe learn from it and build something that will help us in the future.

I am holding out hope for Lee Hamilton to step up and provide a little adult supervision for this commission.

***********************
p.s. I DO believe that CNN is balanced. But the predicable results of their on-line and call-in "Polls" indicate a solid leftward skew to their viewership. And why should this be a surprise? Millions of potential right-wing viewers - and potential poll "voters" - are drained away by Fox.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. If you believe that CNN is balanced, you are misled
Count yourself among the Kool-Aid drinkers, though it bruise your ego to acknowledge the truth.

I don't the space to list all the reasons, both demonstrabe and subjective, tthat bolster my position.

Here's a flavor: CNN's Bill Schneider is an AEI fellow. This isn't mentioned in his CNN bio, and not mentioned EVER on Corporate TV Pravda. He is adverstised as an unbiased Political Insider, but 5 minutes of viewing shows he is as biased as any other Bushevik, even more so, considering he has fooled so many people by omitting the telling of his obvious biases.

Proof?

http://www.aei.org/scholars/scholarID.53/scholar.asp

There are simply SOOOO many examples like this and others.

By contrast, can you name any Progressive Policy Institute members on Faux? Any FAIR members?

Hey, enjoy that Kool-Aid. Oh, and one other quote that may be applicable here:

"No one is more hopelessly enslaved, than the person who falsely believes he is free."
--Goethe
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Slide Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks for the reply, tom_paine.
I'm a little skeptical, but I enjoyed your comments and I respect your opinion. You've done a lot of work on this issue.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Sorry to be so harsh, dude
Edited on Thu Apr-15-04 08:42 PM by tom_paine
My newfound zealotry sometimes gets the best of me.

Try David Brock's "Blinded by the Right" and Eric Alterman's "What Liberal Media" for a start. Franken's "Lying Liars" is good comedy but it is also loaded with well-researched fact.

A couple more links:

http://www.buzzflash.com/perspectives/2002/Media_Bias.html
(this one has MANY excellent links)


You SHOULD keep your skepticism. As I daily try to make sure that my zealotry doesn't consume my critical thinking skills and I become a mindless Democratic Booster like the Dittoheads (can you imagine being proud of such a vile name that says that your a dumbass who can't form his own thoughts???) but on the Left, I try to remember the cardinal rule should be be MOST skeptical of that which tells you what you want to hear or is conforming to your worldview.

I like to think I have done that. That my views are always well-vetted, corroborated, and surviving my own skeptical calleneges (as well as those I invite from others).

I haven't always succeeded but I always try to come back to that rule.

Satisfy yourself as to the veracity of my or anyone's claims.

If the facts tell you I'm wrong, go with it, but make sure to be skeptical of yourself.

Maintaining a critical mind in this situation where Tyranny threatens is essential.

Anyway, sorry for speechifying. You are correct to be skeptical.

But the bias on CNN is powerful and obvious. Note the distribution of guest, Left, Right, and Center on the various Bloated Blathering Pundit Shows on CNN. Almost ALWAYS more right than center (to even put left in there is laughable, actually, outisde of Crossfire, which we will leave out because that is the one show that actually is pretty balanced, got give them credit for that)Candy Crowley, Jack McCaffery, Schneider, Judy Woodruff (the Busheviks still call her a liberal--are they INSANE--watch as she covers and fawns for Bush, gives him the benefit of the doubt, makes little digs at the Dems not always but often--people 'round here call her Judy Whoredruff) WOLF BLITZER (a HUGE Bush cheerleader and fawner) there's more but you get the idea. Look at their roster yourself.

Often, an ardent Bushevik Propagandist (this was particularly true in the Last Days of the Old Republic in the 90s when they basically had an open field -- no one had really figured out their little Malevolent Operations and Media Machinations so they had a field day) against a Left-Center Journalist striving to be fair as that is the Journalists Credo of the Old American post-WWII Republic) or TWO (think 1998: Ann Coulter and Barbara Olsen on Larry King Live...we had NO idea what Pravda was being beamed at us with no opposition or challenge) against a left-center jounrlaist. Often the hosts (hmmm...how'd all those Bushevik Loyalists like Tim Russert/NBC, Wolf Blitzer, Billy Schnieder) are maneuvering the conversation favorably and using their position to aid their chums.

It's ugly and odious and OBVIOUS. Once you start picking up on it, watching Corporate TV Pravda will be nauseating.

I'm sorry. We have to tell as many people as possible as quickly as possible. It ain't no Ed Murrow and Walter Cronkite any more.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. yeah
Edited on Thu Apr-15-04 09:11 PM by Skittles
but do you believe the overall approval rate for Bush is 50% ? That's what the "real polls" would have you believe.
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LEW Donating Member (809 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. voted
kick
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Gothic Sponge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. done
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Vadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. Done! 65%-35%, 124815 votes....
Whose version of events do you think the 'bin Laden' memo supports?
The White House
35%
43862 votes

Richard Clarke
65%
80953 votes
Total: 124815 votes
T
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. I didn't find it.
Removed for some reason?
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