Killer blows kisses at victim's family

WEST PALM BEACH -- Before Octavious Wade was escorted out of a downtown courtroom Tuesday, he sent one last message to the family of the 17-year-old boy he killed with a gunshot to the face.

Wade blew them two kisses.

It took a deputy to control the ensuing chaos, as the boy's stepfather went after Wade and deputies rushed Wade out of the courtroom. But the brief scene showed the kind of emotions family members were trying to avoid by accepting a plea bargain for Wade instead of going to trial on a charge of first-degree murder.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/auto/epaper/editions/wednesday/local_news_04c78a7a734110a0003a.html

I'm sure there will be somebody who tries to use some over-intellectualizing psychobabble from some academic journal that nobody reads to say that this guy is the real victim who we should feel sorry for. The only outrage here is why the baliffs didn't just let the step-father sack the guy right there (he had already pleaded guilty).

I think he will learn all about being a victim.

Yes, he certainly will have some rather not-so-pleasant experiences in prison, that's for sure.

I want to shatter any illusion that anyone has about prison life centering around watching TV, lifting weights, and playing ball. The televisions stay broken, are only watched during certain hours and when they are on, they show mostly cartoons. There is one or two weight benches for every one or two hundred inmates and unless you are already big when you enter the prison yard, your chances of getting in a good workout are slim. The same goes for basketball. How often will you get to play when there’s one ball per every hundred guys?

No, prison is not about recreation. Most inmates are required to work. Where I come from the top salary is a dollar a day and few ever reach that level. The inmates who work on the chain gangs beside the roads get seventy cents a day for swinging a bush axe in the hot summer sun. Other inmates cook, work in the prison laundry or in any of a variety of state owned factories making school desks, uniforms, street signs, and yes, license plates.

My state has a program that allows inmates to take college classes. The conservatives love to go crazy talking about it. In the 20 years the program has been around, exactly one inmate has earned a degree. I don’t know how things are where you live, but around here, state run programs are nearly always severely lacking. Don’t expect to end up in a prison where the nice, loving, staff feels sorry for you because you came from a broken home and never had a chance. You’ll soon find out that nobody really cares.

A day in prison starts when the staff gets you up at 5:45 A.M. for the first headcount of the day. You share one sink among 12 guys to wash your face and brush your teeth. You share one toilet wit those other guys too. Then you go to eat breakfast. You get no choice. You have to eat what they serve or you go hungry.

After breakfast you return to the cellblock where you have to clean your area, make your bed and get ready for your assignment. That assignment may keep you busy all day or you may return to the block to do nothing. If you like to read, and most don’t, there a few three year old magazines and some religious books floating around. The TVs are blaring. People are yelling. The mentally ill prisoners are wondering around muttering.

There are more head counts. If you are sick, you’ll get medical care. The doctor we had worked in the prison as a compromise with the state medical board so that he didn’t lose his license after molesting a few female patients. Lunch is as bad as breakfast. The afternoon is as boring as the morning and so is the evening. You get one phone call a week. You better hope someone is home and that they will accept your call. If you have any money, you’ll have to buy your own soap, shampoo, and toothpaste. The state only gives that stuff to indigent inmates. And, guess what…the stuff costs the same as it does on the street. There are no prison discounts.

Imagine doing everything you now do in private. Now imagine doing it in front of other men. You never ever get any privacy, not when you’re crying because you Mom died or your girl is gone. Speaking of Mom, how would you like to go to her funeral in shackles with two officers in uniform beside you? Are you shy? You won’t be after a few showers and bowel movements in plain site of everyone, including the female staff.

Prison robs you of your dignity. It takes time away from your life that you can never get back. It doesn’t make you tough. It just teaches you that there is always someone badder than you who can make you a victim too.

I am retired from the Florida Department of Corrections & all I can say is Thses bums have it easy as...

1986-1994

of how they have it so easy in Florida, just to get both sides.

Pond on compound for inmates to fish in, Satlelite TV, The best medical (taxpayers money can buy) two man dorm style rooms. WOuld you like me to continue?

Please do. Why did they have it so good? Is the rest of Florida like that? Does it continue to be so after Jeb? Were people committing crimes just to get in?

Say you were creating your own prison, what would it look like?

Common statement from Inmates leaving was when I need another vacation, I'll be back.

As to my prison what would it look like? A clean dry place to sleep, 3 square meals a day, basic medical attention & alot of hard working inmates! I do believe in paying back a debt to society.

rapes or bashing or standover men in that prison then. No drug abuse out of sheer boredom? I know those are things I look for in a vacation site!

perhaps the "laxity" you refer to has something to do with the fact that this facility is for minimum and medium security prisoners? you omitted this and inferred (by referring to the above crime) that these were hardcore crim's getting it "easy"

There are also NO educational programs, so when the inmates (often there for minor property crimes and even failure to pay fines) get released they STILL have no skills or training and often resort to petty larceny again.

As for the "best medical care (taxpayers) money can buy" ....(from the 2000 Physical & Mental Health Survey):

* The care provided in four of six reviewed chronic illness clinics fell below minimum standards

* Each of the seven reviewed HIV/Immunity clinic records presented
significant deficiencies in the provided care. Read between the lines and remember the amount of intravenous drug use in prisons and the lack of clean needles.

*The clinical management of suicidal/self-injurious inmates was not safe and consistent with minimal standards in a significant proportion (50%) of the records reviewed.


forgive me if I take your claims with a small grain of salt. And Thanks to Amerpie for providing a more realistic picture. No-one says people should "get away with" their crimes but the constant claims that prison is like a holiday are so ridiculous they'd be laughable if only so many people DIDN'T beleive them.

that sounds very much like the prison system here in Ohio (I'm a paralegal, so I'm more aware of it than others).

One point also on medical care, most of the medical staff at most prisons frankly don't give much of a shit at all about any of the prisoners and rarely listen to them or give them the treatment they need. My mom taught at a boys reform school, and she and the other teachers were constantly fighting with the nurse and doctor to look at kids who badly needed treatment, but they often couldn't be bothered.

We just had a case where a prison guard, nurse, and doctor were hit with a major civil judgment because they refused to get treatment for a boy whose appendix had burst after he'd complained for hours about pain and a fever and who subsequently died because they couldn't be bothered.

I was an officer at the women's max here, I got hurt at work and now I stay at home with my kids. My hubby and brother worked in the mens max's and my mother was in the kids and the men's medium security as a nurse and supervisor.
The inmates have it pretty good here, prison is never a great place but no where is really safe. Jeffery Dahmer was beaten to death in his max prison.

in cases like this, it's best to let family members administer justice.

Just my 2 cents.

but I have to... in cases like this I don't feel sorry for the death penalty either, even though I'm against it in principle.

What can you tell about whether the DP was warranted in this case from this one part of the story?

Had he been sentenced to death, I probably wouldn't feel sorry for him.

I have no idea on the specifics of the case and can't say whether the death penalty was warranted or not.

Once we start down that Slippery Slope, it will never end. Especially with the Bushevik Totalitareian Scum ruling us now.

Personally, I myself would support a little Cruel and Unusual Punishment for this guy, for child molesters, and other odious fiends.

Happily.

Luckily, my brain knows that those Amendments are there for a purpose (even if the Busheviks have mostly invalidated them) and were written because the Founding Fathers understood human characteristics, such as ego and greed, so well.

They KNEW that no one could be trusted with unchecked power, not even them.

So, bitter as it is we must accept the Constitution and Bill of Rights, even when it hurts us to do so.

Yeah, I would love to have seen then cops stand back and let teh Stepdad beat the shit out of that bastard.

But next time, the person getting the shit beat out of them might be me, in the Heinrich A$$croft Memorial Re-Education and Re-Christianization Camp...for doing nothing but speaking.

With the Constitution and Bill of Rights: Cut one corner, you've cut 'em all.

Sure beats that pesky constitution. :eyes:

this vermin get only 10 years for killing somebody execution style?

What kind of bullshit sentence is this?

Geez louise.

and then many act shocked, SHOCKED! that US soldiers would commit an atrocity in iraq. :eyes:

Scary.

DrWeird, I was beginning to wonder if I'd somehow entered the twilight zone and my computer had morphed into Freak Republic or CUntville or other pits of freep hell.

I agree Freak Republic would love to see this guy killed and they would believe anything the media spoon feeds them. This story is tragic but also extremely prejudice.

It's scary how many people advocate vigilante "justice" or something akin to it. It really concerns me.

The guy IS a freeper. Fuckin' A.

You don't have to be a Freeper to be outraged at the prisoner's conduct and wish that the victim's father had been allowed to have one crack at him.

I don't see this guy regreting or suffering any remorse in the future for his crime at all and I would hope based on his conduct that he does suffer some sort of karmic payback at the hands of his fellow prisoners for something he does to piss one of them off.

deserves the death penalty, his execution is not worth the possiblity that an innoscent person could be executed. Although I have nothing wrong with executing someone if they are certainly guilty, the certainty of guilt is almost impossible to establish. That is why I am against the death penalty.

possibly draw a single conclusion about anything from this story.

Read the short article. They couldn't prosecute him because the only witness was his accomplice and they knew that they wouldn't be able to get testimony a jury would believe from either of these guys, and they'd probably never know what really happened. They probably also knew that the jury wasn't going to have much sympathy for a victim who was trying to buy $500 worth of pot.

Since we have no idea what happened between the victim and the two accomplices, I have no idea how you could say the DP should or should not be administered in this case.

As for the blowing of the kiss, you want to execute a guy for that? At the very least, you want to witness that first hand before you draw conclusions about what it was. It could have been anything from evilness to the act of an emotionally immature person who wasn't even sure of what he was trying to say with that act.

What the kid did was terrible in blowing the kiss..it was horrible and callous...however, it does appear that he did not act alone and is taking all the punishment for what may have been a type of gang initiation type of deal.

Finally, while I have sympathy for the victim and don't think the kid should get away scot free and IS responsible for his behavior, young males don't even finish developing neurally until they are 22..this kid committed this crime at 18 or 19.

And last...perhaps one should ask why America is 15th in the ENTIRE WORLD in young male suicide rates...we as a society are failing and the macho talk on this thread certainly points to some of the symptoms of that failure.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_sui_rat_you_mal

he was an ass...

I mean, what's the context here?

The perp may deserve death, but society deserves better than to abandon justice in favor of revenge.

I agree, it would be so much easier if every killer did so on video tape, signed a written statement in blood and wrote a book report about it for the judge. Unfortunately, that reality only exists in la-la land.

Doesn't mean he did. People give false confessions all the time, especially minors and people with low IQs as this guy had. Considering that is the only strong evidence they had, according to this story, I'd say that isn't especially damning.

Fuck this guy, he needs to be handed over to the family and killed in whatever manner they see fit. At the very least draw and quarter the bastard. But no, he'll live out his days in prison doing drugs, bullying other prisoners, watching TV and bragging about his exploits.

But no, he'll live out his days in prison doing drugs, bullying other prisoners, watching TV and bragging about his exploits.

...not to mention bacon, eggs and pancakes every morning paid for by the taxpayers.

and the food there is, shall we say, a hundred thousand times worse than the worst school cafeteria meal you ever ate. I don't know of too many prisons where they eat egss, bacon and pancakes all the time and do nothing but sit around and watch TV. That's a repuke wingnut GOP propaganda distortion, and I'm sickened and ashamed that ANY DUer, let alone a whole bunch of them, fall for it and are posting like this.

Has never spent a day in prison. I have a brother in his fourth month of a one year sentence for B & E. When he gets out, I'll have to have him pop in and talk about how "easy" prison life is.

Why should it be any different? It's prison for Christ's sake. Frankly, most prisons aren't tough enough for my taste.

I just can't stand hearing RW talking points about how "easy" prisoners have it.

how many have you actually been to? any at all?

:eyes:

Just one issue where I part ways with the bleeding hearts.

people who disagree with you on social issues = bleeding hearts

on the "just those that deserve it" line - who decides that - some people in your country beleive anyone who's gay or has had an abortion "deserves" it, or anyone that's ever used drugs (including the victim in this case) that's the problem with capital punishment - who decides? and after what kind of trial and representation is the decision made?

You're being ridiculous. Murderers deserve it, child murderers and cop killers especially deserve it and in fact I'd like to include pedophile child rapists as well. Who said anything about the state executing gays, people who have abortions or people who use drugs? Certainly not I.

Forgive me if my heart doesn't bleed for murderers and their ilk. I'm left of center on many issues, this isn't one of them.

given that your system is currently OK with executing minors and the mentally disabled what happens if people like Asscroft get a bit more say in deciding which other crimes to add to the capital list? and plenty of your fellow citizens firmly beleive that having an abortion IS murder, so by your "murderers deserve it" rational....

As for hearts bleeding, does yours bleed for the people completely framed by cops wanting to get things "solved" or bent cops beating confessions out of people?

So that's out the door. People get sentenced as minors for doing adult crimes but there hasn't been an execution of anyone under 18. If you rob and murder a 70 year old woman at age 16 or 17 you know what the fuck you're doing. We sure know those Columbine kids had full awareness of what they were doing. Being another year or two older doesn't make much difference. As far as the insane or mentally disabled I don't really have a problem with that either. If you are so crazy you have to kill everyone, good riddance. If you think God is talking to you and you stone your children to death, maybe you should be riding the lightning because you certainly are no good to society. Let me be clear that I'm for this in open-and-shut, "no question about it" cases. Like that asshole who murdered little Carlie Brucia in Florida a few months ago. You can't give me a single reason why that son of bitch shouldn't be tortured to death let alone given the opportunity for painless lethal injection. I can only look at these crimes as if they were to happen to me. If anyone hurt my kids like that I'd have to kill them. I'd have to.


Yes, my heart bleeds for the falsely accused. No one should have to suffer that.

Simply put, because somebody would have to do the torturing. Not good.


I can't imagine feeling any different if this was done to a member of my family, I would want vengeance, probably dream about it.

That said, the desire to punish lowlife scum in these open-and-shut, "no question about it" cases will never suffice as an excuse to degrade what we truly value in a society and most certainly doesn't make the case to alter the BOR's prohibition against "cruel and unusual punishment", notwithstanding that it's already done in many prisons across this country.


It seems to me the most self-evident of ironies that we would lower our societal standards, so as to exact vengeance, righteous or otherwise, on the "lowlife scum-of-the-earth". Where is the wisdom in punishing ourselves for these people's sake?


It isn't about the "bleeding-heart liberal" variety of politics to me (and BTW that is such a ridiculously passe, trite, _ AND _ RW phrase, I'm surprised somebody would actually use it in earnest here on DU) it's about maintaining the BOR's and their guarantee for EVERYONE.


This kind of question has been asked and answered thousands of times
in US courts over the last 200+ years.

Here's mine. I'm proudly pro capital punishment. Here's some other causes I proudly support: Gay marriage, gun control, legalization of marijuana, Roe V. Wade, universal healthcare, Americorps and the Democratic party. Oh, and I absolutely hate the war.

But I'm a freeper, eh? Uh-huh. Today's lesson: Don't paint with such a broad brush.

in response to someone who insinuated that all anti-death penalty people were wimpy bleeding hearts. Look at the post she was responding to.

Read down into the thread, this person is anti-death penalty, otherwise they've being sarcastic about 7 or 8 more times in this thread.

And I know she's anti-death penalty based on other posts.

that "best freepy voice" was a sarcastic response to the "best whiny liberal voice" comment from another poster - I actually have no problems PER SE with capital punishment for certain crimes and as soon as anywhere gets a justice system that TRULY is blind and isn't turned by money and power then I'll be all for it.

So actually Rummythedummy - you know NOTHING about what I'm for or against - if the system could ever be guaranteed of getting it right I'd be PRO death penalty for certain crimes but that still doesn't mean it would reduce crime...can you please let me know where I've said I'm anti-death penalty per se????

So the "lesson for today" read the thread - read and conmprehend -before jumping to conclusions

This is not Freak Republic.

And crimes like these happen every day.

Hostility to crime victims is no way to win elections.

Another thing you don't see often at DU is sensationalism, which is what this thread seems to be doing.

that do nothing to reduce crime or encourage rehabilitation or help the victims family.

Has anyone in your family been murdered and the killer executed? Seems it would be hard for you to really know how it feels one way or another if the answer is no.

The post I was responding to was "hostility to the families doesn't win elections" - before this thread devolved into a death penalty one it had a lot about prisons being too soft - THAT's the myth I was referring to.

And not that I feel any need to explain myself to you who have shown over this thread that want to make your own judgements without (a) reading the threads in context and in order and (b) knowing anything about me but actually I do have a loved one that was murdered, my country does not have the death penalty so if there's ever a conviction it wont be an option but if it were AND I was dead sure there the person had adequate legal representation and a fair trial then I'd be all for it - like I said earlier I'M NOT ANTI DEATH PENALTY

YOU made that assumption - however I'm also PRO fact and the crap about prisons being "soft" is almost always just that crap.

Nothing to do with the death penalty

Justice was served.

Black criminal. Called an animal. White victim. Confession which the police don't think would be allowed in court (hey, this is Florida!!). Oh, and a low-IQ defendant.

One thing the TV show didn't share, which was in the newspaper article. The victim was buying $500 worth of pot from the defendant before he was shot.

I'll bet you that was the biggest reason the prosecutors accepted the plea bargain.

I'm sure they were weighing race as a good reason to go to trial, and all the other stuff as reasons not to go to trial, and decided that it was still a close call, but unwinnable.

But the biggest reason this was on TV: because of race.

Yea because we know that POT carries such a bigger sentence than murder. People commit crimes reguardless of race.

I agree with AP's post.

I'm not talking about why the victim got shot.

victims cases sensationalized like this? Where I am, Northeast Ohio, the answer is almost never. But if it's a white victim and a black criminal or suspect, and especially if the victim is middle or upper-class and pretty and the suspect is poor or considered a "gangsta", then it's all over the fucking place all the time while black victims go unmentioned and nobody cares.

And just so you know, I was robbed at gunpoint last August by a black male, so it's not as if I don't have any idea how a victim would feel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What amazed me was the blatant racism that came out of the closet after it happened, everyone wanting to know if I'd "come to my senses" about "how blacks really were" and saying how I now have the right to profile blacks and be afraid of them, which, to me, was almost sicker and more frightening than the crime itself!

I thought "I bet the perp is black, and the victim is white". And I had hoped that I was wrong. But, sure enough, I wasn't.

Typical overblown sensationalist local tv coverage, which is often racist in nature. Sadly, not surprising in the least.

Don't get me wrong, the footage of the family in that courtroom was heartrending. I cannot even fathom what they went through, losing their son in such a horrendous manor, and I don't blame them for their reaction.

...was buying $500 worth of pot from the defendant.

That would be a different story, and not one that fits in with their little narrative about calous animialistic black murderers and inncocent white victims and their families.

but the problem is he's never been caught (even though the police have his picture from the ATM video taken when he used my card to get $700 of my hard-earned money out of my account; he managed to get the PIN by moving the gun from my ribs and jamming it in my neck and putting his finger right on the trigger until I gave him the number), and the police don't seem too interested in finding him, they've done very little the past eight months. Got bigger fish to fry, I guess. And I'm alive, that's the important thing.

It's sensationalized because the killer blew the victim's family a kiss -- a dramatic event occurred that's worthy of coverage. Everything is not about race. :eyes:

It's the darkness of his skin, the hair, the skin color of the vicitm and his family, and the editorializing by the reporters which really turned this NOTHING story (it was a plea bargain, for god's sake) into a big media event.

Citation, please.

eyes closed.

Tell me the difference bewteen what you see and what the reporters say about it.

That's the part that is editorializing.

Also compare the TV report to the newspaper report. Notice how the TV report doesn't say a damn thing about the vicitm buying drugs.

Any DA will tell you that's probably the biggest reason why the government accepted a plea despite what would have been an easy win if the victim had been totally innocent (thanks to the race of the participants, provided the prosecutor could get a mostly white jury).

Leaving out parts of the story like that one is editorializing too.

I watched the video and it is very obvious that this story was about race.

and notice how they sneak in at the end of the report about his very low IQ, which might have caused the prosecution problems. Hmmm. They ought to consider themselves lucky they got 40 years. If the guy had any money, he could get a real lawyer to get him a better deal.

But a pound of pot for 500 bucks? Musta been shit..poor kid was killed for bad pot.

How dare he smoke marijuana, after all, that's illegal. He might as well have machine gunned a bus full of school children.

That has to be one of the biggest misinterpretations of a post I've ever seen.

I see a lot of pissing and moaning for the young man on trial, but not quite as much for the victim.

I think it is a perfectly valid discussion to question why it is stories like these, which conveniently leave out portions of the story, that the media jump on and sensationalize. No one is saying that the victim deserved to die. It certainly wasn't being said in the post you responded to. What I have seen in this thread is a lot of assumptions about guilt and cries of vigilantism, and a lot of the posts you are questioning have been in response to that.

how longer will it take the repugs to put this case in a ad, with kerrys picture attached. you know something like soft on crime.

My sister-in-law jumped the railing and went for a bailiff's gun. The DA threatened my wife with criminal charges when she said she wished she had shot the murderer herself.

Of course none of this made the evening news or politcal chatrooms, I have no doubt that it was because mine was a black family. I'm sure that's also the reason it was dismissed by the media and the police department and the jury as just another gang killing. Even though my late brother-in-law was never a gang member.

doubt that the DA and the deputies would have nodded in sympathy and fallen all over themselves to do what they could for her and your family.

I'm white and I see and hear it all the time, too many whites seem to be totally unable to grasp the fact that non-whites have feelings and emotions just like them and that it's no different from their own.

blowing kisses at the camera. Disgraceful, yes, but there is definite spin in the commentary.

blow him kisses as well. It sounds like he deserves it.

You should stop practicing.

And that is by the people of my community.

So why don't you back off about my professional skills, ok.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Ad Hominem attacks are ok as long as we are standing
up for a confessed murderer?

Look, you don't know me, you don't know my patients,
you don't know what kind of a doctor I am. Attacking me,
while defending a confessed murderer, is probably less than
a credible tact to take.

your humanity...you don't advocate rape as punishment - it's inhumane and disgusting

Sorry if I didn't get the Liberal's Handbook about
what and and what not to say.

However, Ad Hominem attacks are the sign of a weak argument.

circumstances is pretty downright barbaric.

I might add that the acceptance of prison rape as a fact of life is why such an animalistic practice is tolerated in our society and why we incarcerate prisoners and for the most part release animals.

and it's especially disheartening to see a doctor making such a comment. Good thing for inmates that he's not a prison doctor.

and I treated them with the same dignity and respect as
anyone else. Actually, I quit the job because administration
wasn't willing to do the same and wanted
to pay for only substandard care.

Again, it amazes me what license people take around here
to get personal, even when they are 1) missing the point
2) using a weak ad hominem attack 3) don't even know who
or what they are talking about.

of some a crime and get thrown into a holding cell with someone who wants to sexually assault you, what kind of justice will be served? Everyone who jokes about prison rape seems to think it will never happen to him/her. OK, don't get caught with any drugs, or doing a DUI, or get arrested during a protest. And what about the prison rapists and their victims after they get released? Believe me, most of them will be released eventually. My sister-in-law is a court-appointed counselor for sex offenders, and she says nearly every one of them has been raped as children or adolescents. Hurray, let's create more rapists!

Actually, I have had more than a few people in my family go
to prison for different reasons.

So why don't you shut up.

Ad Hominem attacks are ok as long as we are standing
up for a confessed murderer?

and how it isn't part of "rehabilitation." I guess putting you and your loved ones in the picture didn't make it seem quite as funny.

statement several folks made personal ad hominem attacks
on me.

Why is it that people seem so free to talk about me personally
and my loved one or whatever? Is it because I am a doctor?

I have no idea but I still can't understand how people here are
so occupied with standing up for a confessed murderer.

I help prevent and relieve suffering, illness, and death. What's
so darn wrong with that?

I just thought that perhaps a common *hallmark* of liberal thought, i.e. empathy, might be sparked by being reminded that you or someone you love could end up behind bars. Apparently I was mistaken.

It's compleetly hilarious that you can state "When he is repeatedly raped in Prison, I'm sure they will blow him kisses as well. It sounds like he deserves it." then get all angry at people for accussing you of saying someone deserved to get raped - then you go on to claim that people here are defending a murderer!

BTW what exactly does "When he is repeatedly raped in Prison, I'm sure they will blow him kisses as well. It sounds like he deserves it." mean if you weren't intending to suggest you condone rape as a punishment.

advocating rape as a valid and just punishment - if you can't see that that is a vile and repugnant thing to say then I really have no idea what you're doing on a progressive forum.

NO ONE "deserves" to be rpaed for ANY reason whatsoever

It's strange how this attitude is so prevalent yet it sits alongside (without any apparent contradiction for the people holding them) the view that prisons are "soft" or like "luxury hotels"

when was the last time you heard a joke about not "dropping your soap" in the shower at the Hilton

And if you look several posts down, there is a moderator
who does advocate for him having a hard life in prison.

All I suggested is that he will probably get what he deserves.

Why some people are all up in arms trying to defend a confessed
murderer that shows no remorse, I will never understand.

And you hope for someone to be raped? Not only are you a disgrace to the medical profession, you're a vile excuse for a human being.

He said: "When he is repeatedly raped in Prison, I'm sure they will blow him kisses as well. It sounds like he deserves it."

Prison rape is a fact of life. He simply stated it and didn't exactly express remorse.

While I would like us to do what we can to eliminate rape from our prisons, I wouldn't shed a tear if it happened to this thug.

n/t

Try not putting words in my mouth.

You know what I said, quit trying to twist it.

You just said he probably deserves to be raped. Now you're just trying to backpedal away from your indefensible comments.

Frankly, I think you and a bunch of others over-reacted to
what I said. Amazingly, they made it a personal issue. I am
only trying to defend from the personal attacks.

As far as my comment goes, it speaks for itself. It obviously
touched a nerve.

But if it gives anyone solace, if I were a prison guard I certainly
wouldn't stand idly by if one inmate was harming another.

But in the final analysis, it really bothers me so many DU'ers
are willing to go to bat for a self-confessed murderer taunting
the loved ones of the victim's family. It's that sort of attitude
that I think has turned so many people away from the left and on
to assholes like Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity.

That so many DUers would spout right wing talking points advocating vigilante violence or condoning prison rape. No one said that this guy doesn't deserve to go to prison. And as I mentioned in another post, if not supporting vigilante violence against this guy makes me "soft of crime/criminals" so be it.

The very reason we as a society advocate the rule of law is to prevent the kneejerk emotion that leads to mob justice from becoming a part of our criminal justice system.

It's that sort of attitude that I think has turned so many people away from the left and on to assholes like Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity.

And like most wingnuts, Rush is all bluster. He advocated harsh treatment for those on the wrong side of the law, but once he found himself there it became a whole nother story.

I daresay it would be the same for any of our resident "tough on crime" DUers if they or one of their loved ones was ever accused or convicted of a crime.

This is all such a non-issue anyway.

They should have let the father kick that guy's ass. Definitely would have made him feel better. Although, what the mother did was kinda odd.

I can understand that. She probably was scared he'd get hurt or arrested.

But the way she did it was odd. Jumping on someone and wrapping your legs around them is a weird way to hold someone back. But to each his own.....

This is the type of person I don't agree with the death penalty for but I can't muster any sympathy for either. I don't think the death penalty would even be much of an affront to this kind of person.

... you know? Lay off him. It's the last fun he'll ever have.

... one of the victim's family got up and called him an "animal". And he was just getting back at them. In other words, they're all f***ed up. (By the way the killer was pretty big. I don't think the stepfather would have been any better getting over to him. Might have led to physical therapy). What the hell do you expect? You take a 21-year old psycho and start taunting him, it's like poking a bear with a stick. They provoked it - we shouldn't let our courtrooms degenerate into a circus like this (which (implicitly) means that we should impeach Antonin Scalia). I feel sorry for the family, but a trial shouldn't be a vengeance ritual - It allows for too many mistakes.

Have we really gotten to the point where we take the creeps side before the families? I just don't see the merit in that.

taking the "creep's" side over the family. That's the same kind of thoughtless nonsense we hear from right-wingers all the time.

Being concerned about having a fair justice system doesn't mean we "take sides with the perps". It means we understand that any of us, or any of those we love, could end up in the justice system, and it should be fair and it should treat the people in it with basic decency.

Advocating vigilante justice or prison rape is more abhorrent than advocating for a fair justice system.

We have to try to find a way that this guy could be innocent, and make the victims family come off as the bad guy?

what lumps you in with the right-wing is the stupid, thoughtless argument that unless people express a desire to inflict grievous harm on a criminal, that we're somehow "siding" with the criminals and against the families.

The fact is, I have no control over criminals - they don't do what they do on MY behalf. But once the government is in control of them, what happens to them *IS* being done on my behalf. And so for the part of the equation that I CAN control, I believe that vigilante justice and prison rape should be prohibited.

Makes me "soft on crime" or "on the side of the prisoner." I guess I'm both.

The guy's going to prison. What more do you want? Ice picks shoved into his balls?

Animals ....must sometimes be treated like .....animals.

debated is racism--particularly in the media coverage of it.

Consider for a moment what would have happened (or, more precisely, not happened) if the victim's family would have been of color.

Guaranteed we wouldn't have heard a single word about it in the media; because it's just SOP in the media's eyes.

If you watched the video objectively, everything being discussed here will occur to you. The commentary by the two anchors made me ill. Why can't the local news just do the reporting and refrain from editorializing???

atmosphere that ensues when cameras come into the courtroom. It looked to me like he was mugging for the camera, not necessarily at the family.

Still, there should have been more restraint. It's not like anyone expects there to be no tension at that time.

"The only outrage here is why the baliffs didn't just let the step-father sack the guy right there "

what would that have solved? After clobbering the man, his son is still dead and assaulting him will lose it's charge soon after he's carted away in handcuffs for disrupting the court.

the dude pushed the family's buttons because he knew he could... he's being predatory to the bitter end.

it's like McVeigh and his crude name for victims' families--- "the-woe-is-me-crowd". That statement and/or the defiance by this dude's actions could make anyone who is struggling with a horrific loss lose their minds.

who we are and how far our country has NOT come concerning race.