Fallujah is (still) burning | 4/28 AM

CNN is showing live video and reporting new battles (as the "ceasefire" rages on)

Cafferty reads an email: We will bring freedom to Iraq even if we have to kill them all.

;)

...is responsible for all of this.

Do you know, nostamj? I'm serious. If I could meet the Creator of the universe and they gave me one question I could ask, that would be it. WHAT THE HELL IS THE MATTER WITH PEOPLE?

Like this email you just quoted. "We will bring freedom to Iraq even if we have to kill them all?!" Once we've killed them all, who the hell is left behind to be 'free'? I mean I guess they're all free once they're DEAD, but that isn't normally what we mean by freedom when we use it in the realm of political discourse, is it? Or is it?

Maybe it is. That would explain a lot. That would explain why they keep saying the people fighting us are the "enemies of freedom." If that really means "enemies of death," that would actually become an accurate statement, instead of the piece of Orwellian bullshit (thanks Beetwasher) that most STICKS IN MY CRAW!

I hate what these people have done to language. "Freedom" now is just a word people sling around when they want to justify bloodletting. "Democracy" is just a toilet-paper curtain shrouding the unspeakable obscenity of conquest. And "God"--don't fucking get me started.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:argh:

The Plaid Adder

Yeah, these two words "freedom" and "terrorism" have been so misused that they no longer have any meaning.

and liberty and god and manifest destiny. those that are left

Once upon a time, I thought I did.

But in these dazed days... I am beginning to think that the ability to question and comprehend events will drive me mad.

The disconnect between what I know and what I'm being told; between what I'm seeing and what I'm told I'm seeing.

Orwell never imagined a scenerio this utterly mad.

Military spokesmen refer to 'anti-Iraqi' forces and they're talking about Iraqis. Or, they're 'terrorists' because they're attacking an occupying force.

Since when do 'terrorists' attack any country's military forces?

I wonder if it's time to drink the kool-aid and turn on Cartoon Network.

(But, I won't.)

nt

while they may well be a "god" of some definition, the misery on the planet is (to me) proof positive that "god" does not and never has taken an active interest in mankind.

the 'loving' 'compassionate' 'all-knowing' "god" that so many believe in could have stopped something in all these milenium...

zip nada nothing

we're on our own here.

I certainly don't think that if we met the Creator s/he would be very much like what we have been taught to expect by Christianity. I do think it's possible that there really is something behind and beyond all this; but the idea that that force would intervene to, say, affect the outcome of a football game or save a child from drowning, is as you say clearly exploded by all the misery that goes on every day.

What is it they say, God created man in his own image and man returned the favor. I do the same, I suppose. When I imagine the Creator I picture him/her/it sitting on the sidelines watching the creations tear each other to pieces and just bawling his/her/its eyes out because s/he can't stop it. Why s/he can't, I don't know. Maybe it was a condition of the creation, somehow.

I don't hold this bullshit against God, or against whatever plays the role God's supposed to be playing. Juno says, at the end of *Juno and the Paycock,* "What can God do against the stupidity of men?" And that about sums it up for me.

Sad,

The Plaid Adder

doesn't intervene, can't intervene.

believers PRAY daily for exactly that intervention... from the tiniest personal desire to an end to global horrors.

and it's futile.

whether "god" won't or can't, the "stupidity of men" is the problem of mankind...

(or, maybe I need more coffee)

I'm reading it slightly more optimistically than you are.

Most days I can't believe there's a Creator either. But I try to keep the possibility open. It would be nice if all those people who are getting slaughtered right now had somewhere to go afterwards where they could be at peace.

Sigh,

The Plaid Adder

It would be nice if all those people who are getting slaughtered right now had somewhere to go afterwards where they could be at peace.


One thing I DO believe in is the eternity of the 'soul'. I believe that a soul takes on physical form to learn (here and many many other planes and places) lessons that can only be learned 'in the flesh'.

So, Physical death is never Spiritual death. That sustains me, to some extent.

are what we must do ourselves.

It would take every person in the world to want peace for every other person of the world for it happen. I think in some way, religion tries to do that - gets a lot of people praying for good things to happen.

It breaks down when you get us vs. them (no religion or person can set themselves apart from any other). The world is too big. It doesn't work.

I think if people actually followed what Jesus was said to have said (ignoring the divinity question) that that was his goal. Buddhism, various other practices would also achieve it.

Maybe some people, in their misguided way think if we just got rid of THESE and THOSE people, there would be peace. And that is why there is war.

nt

and we looked all over the place and found out that the Iraqis didn't have WMD's, so why are we doing this?

The main objectives of the original mission have been achieved. Why does W want to continue this conflict in such a brutal way? His only solution to any problem is to reign terror on large groups of people.

People get all upset when anyone compares Bu$h to Hitler and the Nazis. At the rate Bu$h is going, Hitler is going to look like a amateur.

BTW: Why isn't the UN Security Council in an emergency session about what the US is doing to Falluja? The least they could do, is pretend that they want to stop the US.

in the first place....Listening to all these talking heads (like the one on CNN right now)offering their various solutions is futile, in my opinion....There is no way the Americans can bring together all these factions that have been divided for centuries...Except as a unit to fight against the invaders (Americans).....

from the guy from the Brookings Institute was that General Abazade (sp) KNOWS that a full-out military solution in Fallauja is a dangerous option.....that's the good news.

The bad new is that it appears the on-scene Marine commanders are frustrated and are pushing to "go-in" to the City.

Pollard said that the Coalition has mishandled the situation from the start...said that CHALABI was manipulating the situation for his own political advantage......Crap! Who fed this guy truth syrum????

What a f*ing mess!

he was either accused of or convicted of (not sure) bank fraud and not trusted by Iraqis....:puke:

so I sit here, behind me CNN has been showing LIVE video of Fallujah, huge smoke plume, choppers... I can't bare to listen to the audio.

Kimmitt calls last night's bommbing "a sound and light show."

So, it's fireworks, not bombs falling on a city.



http://www.wtvo.com/Global/story.asp?S=1821223

Baghdad, Iraq-AP -- Coalition troops have not begun an all-out offensive in Fallujah, Iraq. That's according to Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, who appeared this morning on N-B-C's "Today" show.

Kimmitt calls explosions in the city last night "a sound and light show." He tells "Today" there were many "secondary" blasts of weapons and ammunition in two trucks targeted by a U-S warplane. New explosions and gunfire were heard in the area today.

Laurie Anderson has a piece about that on...I think maybe it's on "Red Line/ Tightrope." 'And it looks just like...fireworks.'

Desert Storm really ruined fireworks for me for a while.

@#$!,

The Plaid Adder

so I've been getting most of my impressions from you guys. It's really depressing. I should really do something else. It's like watching a train wreck or something.

not 'like' anything.

CNN is SO charged by this they aren't doing any commercial breaks at all... just live death

'live death' - what a morning!

were the comments on this board that I keep obsessively reading. Which is not the city burning at all. So it can be "like something" if I want it to be.

Watching a city burn that my country had set on fire would be much worse than an accident because it is not an accident.

Sorry if I confused you with my metaphors.

i'm dithered distracted and depressed this morning

would really prefer bewitched bothered and bewildered... (minus the 'bothered')

<sigh>

They are sure glad we're there...Rome burns as this admin. lies about how great things are.

republicans are still attacking kerry's vietnam war protests

Lets see, No WMDS and we are bombing them into freedom.
You will be free Dammit ! Or we will kill you. Thats their logic?

CNN just reported that Kimmitt the Clueless says the 'ceasefire is *technically* still in place.

(i guess you can just say anything these days)

and here's a gem. they interviewed a Marine who stated that, 'so far we're just playing patty-cake with the insurgents, when we really take them on, THE WORLD WILL KNOW.'

that's comforting...

Good one.