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the war in Iraq is lost. It is a defeat.

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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 08:55 AM
Original message
the war in Iraq is lost. It is a defeat.
The list of failures of the Iraq debacle is long but it begins with the stated reasons for invasion. It was ALL lies.

The war was lost at the point Bush lied about the threat posed by Iraq.

Even if you agree with these neo-fascists known as the PNAC/Bush crowd and their war in Iraq, they lost it when they shunned the experts (General Shinseki) on what would be required to be "successful" in Iraq.

They lost it when the Saddam statute was toppled and failed to provide security to the people of Iraq and allowed the looting and sacking of Iraq. (a direct result of the PNAC/Bush crowd shunning the Shinseki recommendations)

They lost when they replaced Jay Garner with Paul Bremer and then proceded to commit one blunder after another

They lost when they launched this Fallujah nightmare. They may "win" Fallujah but they have lost in the eyes of the Arab world.

They lost when every stated "goal" for Iraq has been nothing but a red-herring to get public support for a war of choice un-related to 9/11

This administration is a criminal enterprise engaged in evil in Iraq.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. It was lost before it started.
A select few who failed to realize it are running our country.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Sad But True
All lies and the results are evident. This war is lost and we need to face it, and so should kerry if he is to win the election.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. Powell this morning said:
"Support for the war will increase when we get rid of the insurgents".
He may be right but I don't hold out much hope of that happening after hearing that now 71% of Iraqis want our troops to go home.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I guess that means
"When we stop shooting them, they won't be so mad." So when do we stop shooting them? When they stop shooting us. When do they stop shooting us? When we leave. When do we leave?

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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Powell must be adopting the short-sightedness of the PNACers
He's making the classic mistake of portraying the "insurgents" as a static group, fixed in number. It's the same kind of thinking that permeates the pronouncements of the likes of Richard Perle, when he speaks of "ridding the world of evil".

What they all fail to realize is that for every insurgent that they kill, their tactics serve to create two more. There is no end to this, until the US forces begin to take such losses that they can do little more than declare victory and go home, as Sen. Aiken advised we do at the height of the Vietnam War.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Isn't that stating the obvious? It will get darker after the sun goes down
Well, I would guess that if there aren't any insurgents there wouldn't technically be a war, would there?
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's bush's lifelong pattern of ruin, chaos and defeat
(By the way, tomorrow is the one year anniversary of him strutting around the aircraft carrier saying 'Mission Accomplished.')

Everything he touches turns to crap. Rich,crony uncle-daddy figures have always bailed him out.

Why is this any different? It's his lifelong pattern: Wake up, crap on the world, duck, cover, run away. Leave the steaming heap for someone else. Sleep like a baby while the world burns.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. you are right on
i have been saying this step by step by step


it failed cause the intent was of greed
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. defeat, victory, these are mere words
never admit defeat, or error, no matter how many die
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Zolok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. A splendid little catastrophe...
to paraphrase John Hay...
We never should've gone in there to begin with.
Bin Laden etc weren't there...and there sure as shit wasn't any WMD's to be found.
No, I think John Kerry has the right idea....we've got Saddam so internationalize the whole mess and lets blow this popsicle stand with as much of our dignity intact.
But there is no happy ending here.

I've got my own precis' to the whole thing at:
www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com

Drop by...if you hate Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, drop by and stay a while.
:)
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yep, a successful "exit strategy" was never possible...
... only a DO NOT ENTER strategy.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. The peace was bungled
..irreparably the day they decided to bring in outside contractors at huge salaries to do the rebuilding, instead of hiring the very capable Iraqi contractors at a tenth the cost, put Iraqis back to work, and give them hope.

Helliburton, Bechtel, and a hundred other corporations using Iraq as a feeding trough are to blame for this. There is now no way to repair it, it's simply gone too far.

Prepare for the daily "kill count" to start escalating as the heavy handed destruction and repression in Falluja continues.

These people needed JOBS. They got Halliburton.
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. Is blaming this administration enough...
Saddam is now looking like a saint by most standards.
The "ceasefire/massacre" in Fallujah; the rape and torture of prisoners in Abu Ghraib and other prisons in Iraq. Only "God/Bush" knows whats going on in Guantonamo Bay???

While 50% of Americans sponsor these activities, the other 50% are content to blame "this Administration". At some point we have to ask ourselves -- Is attributing blame really enough?






No one can terrorize a whole nation,


unless we are all his accomplices.


Edward R. Murrow
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




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