The Abu Ghraib torture scandal will sink Bush

This is the one. This is the news story that will end the Bush administration. There is much more to come out. The involvement of the contractors, who knew, what was done.

The story has long, long legs, because it involves sex. Sadistic sexual torture to be precise. The one thing the media can't resist a story involving sex.

Another incredible Bush administration fiasco. But this one will last longer that a 24hr news cycle.

I think you are right. We shall see how the media spins it in the weeks to come. Basically, if the war goes downhill the story will get more airtime.

The sick thing about this war is that average Joe is only opposed if things aren't going well.

It has put Americans at greater risk.

it will not be "terrorism" as we have known it; this will be revenge.

Think how our prisoners will be treated now. Those four contractors will look like they got off easy I bet. :/

I'm going have lots of red maple leaf stickers & patches, probably rig up a passport sleeve too....

He staked his presidency on the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

How do you like you're toast, smirky?

As the owner of his very own intelligence group, Rummy decided he'd do things just a little differently than those other fellows.

Wait'll some scapegoated middle level military person in Iraq pulls out the documents proving it.

I know it's lame, but I'm having fun with paint today.

be right. Being hypocritical about sex is an integral part of our culture. This might be too much to hide.

True enough that sex sells. (I gotta say that using that phrase in relation to torture gives me the creeps, but, hey, in some funny way the Michael Jackson story falls into the same category. Doesn't say much for us, does it, this national obsession with weirdness and horror?)

But this story will not be enough to sink Bush. Bush's people will vote for him no matter what. We are going to have to fight all the way to the goal line, right up until election day.

(edited for redundant word usage)

he said it was "disgusting" The great leader, according to Woodward, who would have us all think he struggles and makes the difficult decisions, distances himself from everything when it comes to accountability.

He claims plausible denial when it comes to anything that may hint that he did have and does have so me responsibility.

And the same goes for all the despicable liars on his staff and in his administration that continue to heap lies on the American people and at the same time expect NOT to be accountable for those lies, or for thnose attacks, such as the one Karen Huges leveled at the women's march and it's millions of protestors. Yeah--they are connected to "terrorists" because they do not bow down and adore a stupid idiot like George W Bush.

I'm appointing ----- to investigate this matter and have asked that the House and Senate Majority and Minority Leaders each appoint a person to the task force that will be investigating this.

We will not tolerate this.

Are they gonna be promoted like the FBI supervisors who prevented the stopping of 9/11?

The guy with the hood and wires.

It's the "Napalm Girl" image of this war. It's the symbol for history of what this whole war was about. Rape and abuse of an entire nation.

Were the troops high? Drunk, on pills? Or, were they just sadistic? Damn, this is gonna hurt the Shrub big time. and worse, the Brits killed a couple prisoners too, tortured and maimed a couple dozen. this thing is looking real bad and it smells too.

It is if we make it so. The Far right has been redefining the American ethos for two decades now. This image of the man in hood and wires should be the icon of our deadened consience.

With this image and powerful wake-up message we can turn it.

This, and the growing number of Iraq veterans that I expect will now begin to speak out.

and "insurgents" being tossed out of helicopters over the ocean with their throats cut.

I'd also like to see it extend to Jamie Doran's Documentary, Massacre at Mazar.

The OPEC countries, infuriated, may be what sinks bush because of this. The vast majority of OPEC is Arab. If you think they're going to stand for this type of humiliation by what they perceive to be "bush's military", think again.

Culturally, this is SO much bigger in the Muslim world -- SO much more unacceptable, than we, in the sex-focused west, would ever dream of.

If OPEC switches to the Euro (or the new Muslim gold-backed currency), not only is Bush going down, but they'll take down the American economy with him.

The press in this country won't allow this to take bush down, but they can't do shit about OPEC.

These atrocities, to much of the Muslim world, IS America, and Americans. The pressure from their people will require that they bring bush down, or face the possibilities of massive unrest. I'd say it will start coming to a head by the end of June to the first of August, in the Muslim countries. What we'll see between now and then will be a groundswell, made more dangerous because their own government leaders will try to keep a lid on it, which will only create more unrest.

:kick::kick:

1-where will most Americans hear anything about it??

2-if they hear about it, where will they hear it analyzed and discussed 24/7 with any balance???

3-RW talk show spin - 'not so bad, look at what Saddam did and these 'victims' probably took part in'

....we are at war

....M Savage type spin - 'these people are animals and only understand and respond to harsh treatment'

....more Savage style - 'this is new kind of war; we can no longer afford a 60s style obsession with civil rights

I agree with you. Unfortunately, a huge chunk of the 'Murcan public will think, "Oh well, they're just brown people, Moslems, who cares?" That has been the attitude of millions so far. It amazes me that a country that spouts off about its own goodness can be so indifferent to the slaughter of thousands of Iraqi citizens.

it is becoming transparently clear that Iraq is FUBAR. I think that the defeat at Fallujah along with the incredible flip flop of having one of Saddam's generals lead the force to "retake" the city will cause even *'s apologists to scream, "What the fuck!" There were no WMD's, no link with Al Qaeda so the only rationale left for the fucking war was the "liberation of the people from Saddam's rapists and thugs". But now the Iraqi people are the enemy and Saddam's generals are the good guys again. Even the freepers must be imploding.

this is a culture of young people whose motto was "kick their ass and get their gas" and felt good about that.

They are devoid of compassion or understanding and are running on testosterone or drugs of another sort.

I will never forget that slogan that was displayed in my local rural convenience store right on the counter in placemat size letters as one checked out their purchase.

I will never forget this demonic and reptillian, brutality that was spurred on with the rush that a feeling of revenge affords to stupid, unthinking, jerks, for anyone Muslim, because of 9-11. And now we see that Bush will cover up , with the complicity of his hand picked panel commission, his own terrible mistakes and his own negligence on that day.

I cannot believe what has happened to my country. It has turned into a nightmare that is orchestrated by barbaric human beings, such as George Bush.

This is the tragedy to end all tragedies--we thought we were a good example and a good democracy. It turn out we are an example of barbarians, stupid in mind, believing tjhat the earth was created by a sky god six thousand years ago, and believing that the "infidels", in this case the Muslims, must be killed--babies, toddlers, women and old men--all of them. And that includes Palestinians too.

This is the type of activity that Americans will not stand for. I don't know if it will sink bush or not, but I believe it has legs.

This guy had the gall to say that those Iraqi prisoners had it coming.
In fact, I heard several callers this morning blaming the press for "sensationalizing" this story. Then he started going on about how My Lai was distorted, too, that the U.S. had every right to go in and kill the terrorists. Makes me sick to hear this kind of talk.

Muslims or not, brown or not, it is hard for any halfway decent person to see such pictures and not wince, to not know it is WRONG. As slow as the public has been in responding to this war, I'd like to think they will not tolerate torture in our name.

for anyone paying attention, his response to this will fall FAR short of what is called for to match his"good and evil"rhetoric.

"His response will be completely inadequate." So what??

His responses have been totally inadequate ever since he was installed in the oval office. The wingnuts don't care. They see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.

As others here have said, he could chop up babies on the white house lawn and eat them raw and the wingnutcases would still see him as god's messenger on earth. Sick but true!

I loathe this creature with everything that's in me, but I don't think anything will turn his base against him.

:crazy:
I hope you are right but so many outrageous things have come out before. Things that would have destroyed a Democrat, but they give Bush a free pass.

This will be thrown in the face of the U.S. for decades, if not centuries to come. Pathetic.

http://www.albasrah.net/images/iraqi-pow/iraqi-pow

yeah right..then he ran to the bathroom and jacked off fantasizing about fornicating with a pile of beaten bloody irakee boyz!!!!

This stuff gives him a woody. It's the smirk that makes me think that. Sick bastard.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-te.diary01may01,0,6510246.story?coll=bal-iraq-headlines

According to the above article in the Baltimore Sun, Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick II documents names, dates, individuals involved in a running diary that he smuggled out of Iraq. He even describes a murder cover-up. What's most troubling about his account is the fact that he says these abuses were standard punishment for Iraqi prisoners who refused to talk, not only encouraged by the CIA and Military Intelligence but probably instigated by them.

Bush put tremendous pressure on US military intelligence to come up with answers as to where the WMD were located. The CID and the CIA put a lot of pressure on Iraqi prisoners to reveal the whereabouts of the WMD. Those who refused to talk were punished. Bush may not only have been aware but in fact may have urged intelligence to do everything they could to come up with WMD sources to make him look good.

Anyone who thinks that prison guards would be so stupid and lax as to find hoods and systematically put hoods on heads, find electrodes and put them on bodies, organize naked pyramids, and blatantly pose with them, unless they had seen similar acts being done again and again and condoned by higher-ups is very naive.

be covered up the last time blair was in the U.S. Fullujah may have been "wag the dog"

The presure was on the find the 911 / WMDs link in Iraq.

just a month ago I heard some right wing radio announcer bragging how the Iraqis were talking up a storm

The major Karl Rove / Karen Hughes talking point has been "We put an end to Saddam and his torture and rape rooms."

...and the major punchline, coming from both Iraq and all over the world, is "but you weren't supposed to replace them with the U.S. version."

Also, Bush's chronic inability to beg for forgiveness when he is so frigging wrong that everyone can see it but HIM. So far I see no evidence of his being "deeply disturbed" having a positive impact.

Plus the current CNN headline ("Arab Fury Over Iraq Prison Photos") means that the U.S. just made a sizable contribution to the Al Quaeda Recruitment Fund.



They can't squirm out of this because "we did the right thing by removing Saddam from power" is not the answer that ANYONE is looking for.

Thus far, the media has done an extraordinarily execptional job at downplaying and covering up the Bush administration's sins.

I may be wrong and this may explode in a very big way... but not before the American media does its dead-level best to neutralize and marginalize it.

Just watch, it will be down the memory hole in short order. If not, then it may "have legs"... but not before there has been a valiant effort on the part of the media to kibosh it.

of our boys tortured in the same if not worse manner. Then what can we say? No, its wrong?

Now Bush has to cover up his Pressure on the Boys in Black Interrogators.....that he wanted answers so bad, he risked this method of torture.

The Legs can lead to the WH.

The sun was shining on the sea,
Shining with all his might:
He did his very best to make
The billows smooth and bright--
And this was odd, because it was
The middle of the night.


The moon was shining sulkily,
Because she thought the sun
Had got no business to be there
After the day was done--
"It's very rude of him," she said,
"To come and spoil the fun!"


The sea was wet as wet could be,
The sands were dry as dry.
You could not see a cloud, because
No cloud was in the sky:
No birds were flying overhead--
There were no birds to fly.


The Walrus and the Carpenter
Were walking close at hand;
They wept like anything to see
Such quantities of sand:
"If this were only cleared away,"
They said, "it would be grand!"


"If seven maids with seven mops
Swept it for half a year.
Do you suppose," the Walrus said,
"That they could get it clear?"
"I doubt it," said the Carpenter,
And shed a bitter tear.


"O Oysters, come and walk with us!"
The Walrus did beseech.
"A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
Along the briny beach:
We cannot do with more than four,
To give a hand to each."


The eldest Oyster looked at him,
But never a word he said:
The eldest Oyster winked his eye,
And shook his heavy head--
Meaning to say he did not choose
To leave the oyster-bed.


But four young Oysters hurried up,
All eager for the treat:
Their coats were brushed, their faces washed,
Their shoes were clean and neat--
And this was odd, because, you know,
They hadn't any feet.


Four other Oysters followed them,
And yet another four;
And thick and fast they came at last,
And more, and more, and more--
All hopping through the frothy waves,
And scrambling to the shore.


The Walrus and the Carpenter
Walked on a mile or so,
And then they rested on a rock
Conveniently low:
And all the little Oysters stood
And waited in a row.


"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
Of cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings."


"But wait a bit," the Oysters cried,
"Before we have our chat;
For some of us are out of breath,
And all of us are fat!"
"No hurry!" said the Carpenter.
They thanked him much for that.


"A loaf of bread," the Walrus said,
"Is what we chiefly need:
Pepper and vinegar besides
Are very good indeed--
Now if you're ready, Oysters dear,
We can begin to feed."


"But not on us!" the Oysters cried,
Turning a little blue.
"After such kindness, that would be
A dismal thing to do!"
"The night is fine," the Walrus said.
"Do you admire the view?


"It was so kind of you to come!
And you are very nice!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"Cut us another slice:
I wish you were not quite so deaf--
I've had to ask you twice!"


"It seems a shame," the Walrus said,
"To play them such a trick,
After we've brought them out so far,
And made them trot so quick!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"The butter's spread too thick!"


"I weep for you," the Walrus said:
"I deeply sympathize."
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.


"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.

the "Now what Bush?" goes to the bank.

Thanks for the meaningful poem.

A direct precursor to Orwell, methinks! :)

...but I've seen too many "Bush is Toast" posts to really believe it. The media whitewashes all. In a few weeks, this news will be dead. Our only hope is that people start connecting the dots (the many stories that didn't get "legs") and that black box voting doesn't cheat us out of another election.

Until then, my optimism is guarded.

We shall see.

Bush has 50 scandals under him, any one of which would have put an end to a Democratic presidency. We may actually hit the point where the weight of all this wrong-doing will actually do what you say. But I doubt this one by itself will have that effect. Too many Americans hate Arabs and don't give a crap what our forces do to Iraqis.

But he wasn't personally involved in this one.

...if he has money invested in CACI or Titan.

Then he would be profitting from this shit.

money that he funneled to them in no-bid contracts under his administration, and according to the Nuremburg precedents he and all under him are directly responsible for any of the atrocities that Tiatan or CACI has committed or caused to have been committed.

This is SO much more than semen stains on a blue dress.

Stories will be coming out about those,as well.
What the America sheep believe or react to isn't the bottom
line with these events,it's how Muslims will react!

Chimp, et. al wil profess profound disgust, but the patented Rethug whisper spin has already started on FR and, sadly, an undeleted thread here. Watch for it to be increased by callers to RW talk radio and on Wingnut web sites as the story develops:

Insinuating that this a spontaneous consensual gay orgy erupted among those depraved gay Iraqi prisoners, that the pictures are faked perhaps because no self-respecting white woman would get so close to a brown skinned butt, and that since one of the guys was (grafittied as) a rapist he somehow deserves to be tortured instead of receiving a trial and then the appropriate punishment if convicted.

But pressure from the international community is not going to let this go....Even if Americans as a whole wanted to

The more these guys resist the larger this story will become. Look for the Administration to try and quickly lay all the blame on as few of scapegoats as they can.

We need to keep up the pressure on the media to do their job. This went all the way to the top and Americans as well as the world need to know

a clearer picture. It's going to relate to definitions. I do not know what the literal, technical definition of torture is (is that defined by the Geneva convention?). Is sexual abuse and/or humiliation within the official parameters of "torture?"

Remember after 911 there was some conversation about the capture of suspected terrorists and what techniques the U.S. government could use to force the suspects to talk. It was said at that time that agents of the United States could not resort to mechanisms of torture to elicit information from those being interrogated. However, there are certain countries which are expert at this -- making people talk -- and these countries do use torture. There was some speculation that the United States would extradite some detainees to these countries for purposes of gaining information that could be elicited under the techniques they would utilize. I believe Israel might be one of these countries. Just the threat of deportation to countries known to use these techniques would sometimes persuade some detainees to talk.

Keeping these thoughts in mind, a number of questions arise. If 911 did change everything, as people are fond of saying, have the restrictions on United States agents using torture to make suspects talk been lifted? How as United States citizens can we find out -- or are we not entitled to this information as far as the Government is concerned? If the restrictions have not been changed, are they being ignored? If the restrictions have not been changed and we do not use literal torture to coerce people to talk, do we use similar techniques that do not fall within the literal definition of torture countries of the world recognize? By similar techniques, I am asking if acts of humiliating a person sexually -- or, for instance, not literally torturing him but making him or her think some act is in progress which will have an extremely painful if not fatal result (I suppose that might come under the definition of simulation of torture) -- are within the allowable parameters practiced by the United States government?

There's something very different between the then (immediately post 911) and the now, as evidenced by these pictures. What is it?

What is our current law? Is it naive to expect one's country to abide by the law in a time of a war on terror?

I don't think there is any doubt we are talking about torture here. Some of it apparently leading to death. If we are not above this behavior, we are no better than Hussein and bin Laden. If that is the case, tell Bush to quit with the "crusades to fight evil-doers" and "they hate us for our freedom" and "we are liberators" bullshit. This is a gang war over turf. This turf happens to have a lot of black gold under it. We have lost our soul.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick, and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee...
(snip)
...The photographs tell it all. In one, Private England, a cigarette dangling from her mouth, is giving a jaunty thumbs-up sign and pointing at the genitals of a young Iraqi, who is naked except for a sandbag over his head, as he masturbates. Three other hooded and naked Iraqi prisoners are shown, hands reflexively crossed over their genitals. A fifth prisoner has his hands at his sides. In another, England stands arm in arm with Specialist Graner; both are grinning and giving the thumbs-up behind a cluster of perhaps seven naked Iraqis, knees bent, piled clumsily on top of each other in a pyramid. There is another photograph of a cluster of naked prisoners, again piled in a pyramid. Near them stands Graner, smiling, his arms crossed; a woman soldier stands in front of him, bending over, and she, too, is smiling. Then, there is another cluster of hooded bodies, with a female soldier standing in front, taking photographs. Yet another photograph shows a kneeling, naked, unhooded male prisoner, head momentarily turned away from the camera, posed to make it appear that he is performing oral sex on another male prisoner, who is naked and hooded.

Such dehumanization is unacceptable in any culture, but it is especially so in the Arab world. Homosexual acts are against Islamic law and it is humiliating for men to be naked in front of other men, Bernard Haykel, a professor of Middle Eastern studies at New York University, explained. “Being put on top of each other and forced to masturbate, being naked in front of each other—it’s all a form of torture,” Haykel said.

Two Iraqi faces that do appear in the photographs are those of dead men. There is the battered face of prisoner No. 153399, and the bloodied body of another prisoner, wrapped in cellophane and packed in ice. There is a photograph of an empty room, splattered with blood.

Netlore Archive: Did U.S. General 'Black Jack' Pershing rid the Philippines of Islamic extremism in 1911 by executing a group of Muslim terrorists and burying them in a grave filled with pig's blood and entrails?

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_black_jack_pershing.htm

If anyone doesn't remember, it was his dilligence that got the My Lai story out. He also wrote the definitive book on Kissinger's tenure.

Is this their standard methodology? Are they running the show in Guantanamo and elsewhere?

These are the details that could potentially be explosive enough to blow shrubco out of the water. And there are pictures!

Pictures are huge because the pierce the veil of denial. Already people are starting to "not remember" the "smoking gun will be a mushroom cloud" speeches from Bush and Condi that got us here. But on this, you can always shove a print of the hooded man in a denier's face.

While this may or may not have any direct effects on Bush, this is going to endanger our troops and any chance for ever obtaining peace in Iraq (yes, I know the last bit is naive; sue me for being an optimist).

One of the things that Bush harped on was the elimination of the rape rooms. Now, on top of everything else that the US has done wrong there are PICTURES that prove that the rape rooms are alive and well and now being run by the US. I can't imagine a response to this atrocity that doesn't have the whole Arab street going completely berzerk.

It also cinches the view of Americans as hypocrits and endangers the lives of our troops and every other American. The people responsible for this should be locked up for the rest of their lives.

rooms" once again in his Saturday address! Yes, it's true folks! I guess nothing should really shock me anymore. But it kinda still does.

but all the hawks in our government who believe in preemptive war. All of thesee people need out.

Anything that will make * look bad.

I posted something similar to this in another, earlier thread, but I think it bears repeating...

The photos will have no effect whatsoever on Bush's continuing "Brave War Leader" campaign. Most Americans who view these photos will have one of two reactions:

-- Shrug and say "eh, so what? Iraqis are pigs anyway."

-- Shrug and say "Well, they're just a few rotten apples. The rest of our soldiers are honorable men and women, have received excellent training, and have the best commanding officers in the history of warfare. No big deal." (This reaction, by the way, is the one the media and President are shoving down our throats. This line of utter bullshit is proved false by this New Yorker article.)

What is far, far more serious and ominous is that the rest of the world has watched Bush lead America down a path of reactionary, over-reaching hate, and it only took a little over three years to get most Americans to march right along.

The world is shocked at what America has become. These photos only help to reinforce that.

on edit:added New Yorker article link

Nothing happens in politics by accident. How did these photos come in to the hands of CBS? The last thing required for advancement of the PNAC agenda is peace. Chaos and fear must reign, with Bush blowing the horns of the apocalypse in order to rally the American public around the need to press on with their profitable "war on terror".

Recall Rumsfeld's remarks two years ago, saying we will provoke attacks in order to smoke "terrorists" out. I've forgotten the acronym, but his department even formed a special group to do so (POG or SPOG or something of the sort). Could this be a deliberate provocation in advance of declining poll figures and the upcoming elections? The way to bring on the terrorist attacks the * administration keeps warning us about? To be followed, if need be, by cancelled elections and martial law (remember, I've got my tin-foil hat on)?

Note the deliberate affront to Islamic sensibilities (the sexual abuse); note also the KKK-like figure on a box, wires attached, arms outstretched in almost Christ-like fashion -- were these meant to (1) deliberately slap the Muslim world in the face in order to provoke heated reaction, a reaction that justifies militarist reaction on our part (perhaps expanding action to the whole region and thus providing the PNAC opportunity to reorder the entire Middle East)? And (2) was the KKK figure, artfully posed, meant to emotionally resonate with elements of the Republican coalition (the Christian and Racist Right) and thereby quell internal Republican unrest? Get the masses to cry, f**k them!, and allow Bush his way?

Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld recently toured the prison, and we know the military has been aware of abuses since January -- are we to believe this was not condoned behavior? At least, not finely orchestrated behavior by PSYOP specialists intentionally meant to inflame the Islamist world?

Then there's the appointment of John Negroponte as our first Ambassador to Iraq. The American public may not know, but the rest of the world does -- here's the man who served as Reagan's Ambassador to Honduras during the height of Contra terrorism, Battalion 3-16 atrocities, and the rampant run of CIA-trained death squads. Another slap in the face of global civility. Was the intention here to (1) inflame, and (2) to send the signal that we intend to terrorize Iraqi's as thoroughly as we terrorized Central Americans in the eighties? Bend to our will, or else?

The world is f*cked! Royally f*cked!!! Or so it seems...

/end tinfoil fantasy...

My tin foil hat grows no dust either.

Now, who was it that said "Bring it on!"? :grr:

A large portion of the American public doesn't care about tortured Iraqis. Another portion thinks it's great. And more importantly, the American media will not stay on it. They'll pay it some lip service, then forget about it.

This story will do nothing to the Bush administration.

Americans will easily dismiss this torture as an unfortunate necessity of war. My Lai was much worse and didn't raise a serious blip on the radar.

The USA will be damaged because it's further evidence to the rest of the world how we say one thing and then do whatever the f**k we please.

....but it won't do 'em any good. And people don't forget things like this, it's as stinky as Limburger cheese.

We've got to fight these fuckers tooth and nail, and with an attitude that won't let us give up.

of larger policy...

It has been framed (and will be accepted by many) as "a few bad apples"... and most of the public, while upset by the pictures, will not spend much time reflecting upon the reprecussions.

However, if in the courtmarshall hearings, the issue gets played and replayed as "inevitable" - due to the massive undermanning of the military in Iraq (that is, far too few soldiers for the task) and the massive lack of planning, preparation and training... THEN the story will have a longer lasting impact - as it plays to a recurring theme that is getting harder and harder for folks to dismiss. That many of the things going wrong, could have been avoided, if there had not been the massive rush to war - and if the war planning (and lack of postwar planning) hadn't so intentionally shut out those with differing views that could have led to better planning ... instead the Pentagon purged non-like thinkers and the picture is emerging of planners (in pentagon and in the white house) were fanatically wide-eyed with a singular vision that dismissed all information that was contrary to their vision because they were so self-righteous in their belief of their distortions of reality. If this story - becomes one more piece of tragic evidence of THAT scenario - then this story, imo, has the power to turn more things against bushco.

The Shei'ite will hit the fan! So, yes I think this will add to the already heavy load on Bush's sorry back! It will also cost more American lives!

I'm sick of the hypocrisy that allows the RIAA and FBI to threaten the livelihoods of struggling college students while American companies with boards seating former government officials produce weapons that kill thousands innocent civilians in the Middle East. So sick of it, I created a Web site about it:

www.isthistwisted.com

(This month, featuring Julie D. Nelson --arrested LAPD file-swapper-- versus former President George H.W. Bush). Take a look, vote your opinion, share your thoughts.

End the hypocrisy: www.isthistwisted.com

You are the 5000th DUer to post a "the <fill in the blank> scandal/incident/outrage will sink Bush" thread!

Your Carole Moseley-Braun for President sticker will arrive in the mail soon.

When will we start to understand? The installation of the bushgang into power in 2000 was a COUP! Control of this country has been seized by a right-wing cabal. They control all branches of government, the media and the technology used for "voting." They did not take that risk in order to subject their power to the trivial, fickle vagaries of democracy and free discourse. The bushgang are virtually immune from accountability for anything they do.

Look at reality. The bushgang have had the worst six weeks in the history of American Presidents--eveything is falling apart and going wrong. Yet the pundits tell us how great bush is doing and how he maintains a lead over Kerry in the "polls." Bullshit. Right now, 80% of Americans hate Bush. But we are sheep who no longer live in a democracy, so it doesn't matter. The media will give us phony reports of the election "horse race" and the bushgang will still be in power this time next year.

As Frank Zappa said,

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see a brick wall at the back of the theater."

The illusion is still profitable, so it continues. But it is JUST AN ILLUSION.