I'm genuinely disappointed in Zapatero

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=9&u=/ap/20040502/ap_on_re_mi_ea/spain_zapatero_iraq

I think it's great that Zapatero is taking on the Bush Admin on Iraq--I really do. However, after the Madrid attacks, Bush and Iraq should not be his priority.

The people who blew up those trains in Madrid were not affiliated with Bush, they were affiliated with Al Qaida. Zapatero is withdrawing from Iraq and that's great. But he needs to deploy troops in places like Afghanistan and send a message to the terrorists that using attacks to influence elections will never work. What Zapatero is saying is right, but by his inaction against Al Qaida, I fear he is confirming the strategic premise of the Madrid attacks.

I don't want to see something similar happen here on the 1st of November.

I certainly hope I'm wrong about this and that Zapatero is going to unveil new counter-terrorism measures soon.

was because of the coalition. But muslims and spain have been ahving problems since grenada in 1492. But spain has been influenced by islam moreso than catholicism.

that bin laden has explicitly stated that he considers spain part of the muslim world and that they will reconquer it. So Iraq was not the sole reason for the attack

I thought that just the withdrawal of troops from Iraq was important, but you're right. Re-deployment of (different) troops is just as important to show Al-Queda that they cannot affect elections. I'm sure the average Spanish citizen has a vested interest in the elimination of major terrorist groups. Re-deploy, Bush-Deserters! We will support you in a Rightous Endeavor!

They really felt that they were dragged into a war and a struggle that they wanted no part of. 95% of the people were against going into Iraq.
They have their own struggles to deal with, including ETA, the Basque separatist movement.
Besides, they have a different perspective of the muslim world. They were occupied by and fought off Islam and they don't feel like refighting it. And their proximity to Islamic states doesn't make them comfortable participating in a holy war.

Zapatero did the right thing for Spain. This mess belongs to Bush and Blair. What a huge, huge mistake they have made for their countries. All these lives lost, all these billions of dollars wasted ...and we are getting less than nothing from it.

If Aznar hadn't enabled Bush, we might have had Al Qaeda on the run by now. Instead, Al Qaeda and its offshoots are flourishing. Spain paid the price for Bush's failure to combat terror. I only hope we aren't next.

i, but he shouldn't have announced it so soon after the bombings.

But democracy dictates that he has to be legally installed as Prime Minister before he could actually do in. He is a man of his word.

Welcome to DU.

You know, if you're in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. Spain is admitting they made a mistake when they backed Bush. They did.

The Bush approach to terrorism is to panic and shoot all of our ammo into the dark. Islamic extremists have shown America to be weak. We are now militarily overdrawn in Iraq, a country that represented an insignificant threat to the United States prior to invasion. The Al Qaedas of the world have been handed a stark lesson in American impotence -- by Bush.

most of the people responsible for the bombings? :shrug: seems to me like they took terrorism pretty seriously.. at least more so than the US (I.E. the Anthrax killer, Osama etc are still loose) and the way I see it (which is not saying anything ;-) ) Afganistgan is a mess right now and not much better off than Iraq......



Peace? :hippie: :smoke: :freak:

And the Anthrax killer was Tom Delay's Fundies.. Nothing to worry about here. We'll catch them both in October. But please don't forget to vote for the man who made it possible. George W. Bush. Thank you.

The message being, "you're under arrest". That somehow seems more effective in combating terrorism than creating new terrorists by killing innocents in Iraq. Catching the terrorists responsible for the act of terror: what a novel concept.

We are dealing with international terrorist organizations. We have to move to cut off their funding and stop internationally coordinated operations.

It seems like the Spanish are simply acquiescing to present circumstances. They could just as well be victims in the future, whether they back Bush or not. In any case, they certainly aren't showing much solidarity with the rest of the Western world, who are next on the list. Regardless of how much Bush is at fault for this, this is a lot bigger than Europe-U.S. politics--real lives are at stake. Zapatero needs to show some leadership.

First of all, Zapatero said when he announced the withdrawal of the troops from Iraq that Spain would send more troops to Afghanistan. They only have 100-150 troops in Afghanistan now, but he talked about doubling their representation there.

Secondly, he has promised since the buildup to the Iraq war that he would withdraw Spanish troops if he were elected this year.

Third, Spain has been working with other countries for a very long time on terrorism. They have experienced terrorism by ETA (Basque nationalists) since the late '60s (losing approximately 800 people to terrorism BEFORE the Madrid attacks), and have had a fair amount of success in dealing with it through cooperation with other countries, especially France. Spain has a heck of a lot more knowledge of terrorism and a heck of a lot more experience dealing with it than we do.

Fourth, they have already arrested a number of people in connection with the Madrid bombings, and Zapatero made his first state visit to another country to the home country of a number of those suspects, Morocco.

Fifth, Spain has arrested one person who is said to be involved in the planning meeting for the World Trade Center attacks, held in northern Spain. This is so far the ONLY person who has been arrested in connection with the WTC attacks. Thank you, Spain.

As for Zapatero's leadership -- well, he is being widely praised in Spain for keeping his word, and the leadership of all parties except the former governing party, the Popular Party, expressed support for that decision in the Spanish Congress. He is now mending fences (broken by Aznar when he supported Bush) with the leaders of other European countries. Zapatero has spoken forthrightly in opposing a war that violates international law. Sounds like leadership to me.

withdrawing 1800 troops from Iraq
sending 300 troops to Afghan

=Al Qaida victory and propoganda tool, as well as an idea for the next attack.

It's sad but true.

You are looking at it from a different side.

However, American interests and Spanish interests may not be the same. Spaniards certainly feel that the Iraq war does not help fight terrorism, and terrorism is a subject they do know something about.

You also seem to assume that the Bush/Aznar propaganda that Spaniards "caved" to terrorists by electing Zapatero is the truth. That is NOTHING like what Spaniards would tell you about their motivations, as well as about the closeness of the race before the election.

Al Qaida can and will call almost anything a "victory." They probably saw our invasion of Iraq as a victory because it took out Saddam and helped inflame at least some of the Arab world against us. So Bush's war could be seen as an "Al Qaida victory and propaganda tool," perhaps.

plank in his platform. The terror attack just solidified what people were already feeling, from what I have read. Sorry, I can't keep the link to everything..

he kept his word to the Spanish people (who chose democracy!) and I do remember reading (around the same time he announced that he would pull Spanish troops out of Iraq) that he wanted to focus on terrorism. He even said that he would send some more troops to Afghanistan.

Sorry I don't have a link. Maybe somebody archived the announcement about the Spanish leaving Iraq and some troops being assigned to Afghanistan? I do know that it was in response to *'s whining about Spain pulling out.

then Zapatero cetainly does kick ass!!!!

I even made a Yahoo group in his honor.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vivazapatero


John

And withdrawing 1800 from Iraq.

Explain to me how Al Qaida doesn't spin this as a victory.

Do you have proof that Al Qaida is not funded by the CIA?

There's no weird conspiracy. Bush and his hard-line backers are just proven incompetents. Al Qaeda is thrilled with Bush, of course, but not because he or the CIA funneled them money. That's just silly.

Essentially what happened is that we had an attack on American soil by Al Qaeda. Bush panicked and hit the Saddam button. Now America looks weak and foolish in the eyes of our friends and enemies. That thought should dawn on even the idiots who still support Bush any day now.

He is doing the right thing in pulling out of Iraq but sending forces to Afghanistan is not going to solve the problem with terrorism. I am certain Zapatero is smart enough to come up with measures to stop any terrorist attacks. Spain has had to deal with terrorism for many years. I think they know what they are doing.


John

But if he does something, it needs to have public resonance. A message needs to be sent.

It's just a tactic, and that's what our PNACkers don't get and the Europeans do.

You cannot wipe out "terrorism" any more than you can wipe out surprise attacks or boycotts or riots or any other tactic that people and groups use to get their way.

The Spaniards got the people who blew up the trains in Madrid through good solid police work. Making the rubble bounce some more in Afghanistan wouldn't have done a bit of good in their case.

dealing with the basque separatist movement.

not sure what sending spanish troops to afghanistan would do for their war on terror. seems the suspects they arrested so far were morrocans.

maybe they should invade sweden, makes as much sense as bushco invading iraq in response to the sept. 11 attack by saudi arabia.

In case you haven't noticed, this is an international organization, and fighting them is an international battle.

Beyond that, supporting Karzai's government in Iraq is a good international cause being led by good people. It shouldn't be beyond the morals of the Spanish to help them out and send a message in the process.

Like, economy, social issues, education, healthcare, infrastructure etc, these sort of things governments have to do but very rarely break the news? He HAS to be doing these things, but of course news agencies are only interested on his utterances about terrorism and the Iraq war.

Also, in going after groups like AlQaeda,silence and subterfuge work better than blaring newspaper headlines and television interviews..

Osama might still be using satellite phones, if some people here had not bragged on tv about how they were tracking and listening in on phone calls.

Soome things NEED to be secret.. Investigating terrorists should NOT be front page newsd, UNTIL they are caught.. Even after they are caught, the methods used in their capture should be known by the fewer the better.

there. I wonder how many US troops are in Afghanistan?

to send more troops into Afganistan, which was no less of an imperialist war than Iraq. As for anti-terrorism, pulling out of both afganistan and Iraq and stopping support for regimes like Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan would be the #1 anti-terrorist measure that the West could take IMO.

What, you can't? You aren't Spanish? Oh well.

First, he's doing what's best for Spain. Supporting the occupation of Iraq was against the wishes of most Spaniards. Iraq was not guilty of international terrorism; the continuing occupation is recruiting terrorists. The occupation of Afghanistan had a bit of a link to terrorism, but the ongoing efforts there don't seem very successful.

Ask Your Own President about his counter-terrorism measures!

I think what Zapatero so far, after being in office less than a month, is just fine. I'm sure he'll do what is necessary to combat terror cells within his own borders as well as helping fight al Qaeda on their home turf. What I don't want to see is Spanish Muslims forced to conform to a xenophobic dress code. I loved Chirac after he stood up to the Bushit over Iraq, but fell in my eyes over the treatment of Muslims in his own country. I hope Zapatero is careful not to follow the same path.