PLEASE tell me!!! When were we informed of the abuse???

I swear I heard Rummy say today that the public had been informed of the Iraqi prisoner abuse in January or February. Is this true?

Jamie McIntyre asked him then why did it take so long for you to read the report.

I swear he said something about making this public a few months ago. Maybe I'm dreaming!

That makes three of us. The woman who was watching that press conference with me, and is a Republican, by the way, heard it too and looked over at me in wonder! I think that this is a really big thing. Rummy is usually more careful than that. The fact is, they knew and they covered it up and then they lied. Nixon did less than this and he was covering up a break-in, not torture!

my damn head is going to explode. It's so hard to keep up with this administration.

I long for the old day when at most there were only a handful of "scandals". Whitewater, a bj, and a blue dress. x(

when we found out there was nothing to Whitewater as it related to the Clintons

and we found out that our FBI worked with the right wing to set up Clinton

and it was all a war of assassination with thousands of players from the moneyed Scaife to the legal foundations to the cosmetic surgeons to the tv lapdogs who spouted the daily or weekly talking points.

Man was it quiet in comparison. The good old days of economic movement, peace negotiations, and hope.

was much ado about nothing it was even better. I didn't know about Scaife, I still believed in a free press, the Forth Estate, and all that bullshit. The scales fell from my eyes on December 12, 2000.

we have been deluged with scandals under *ush!

he said something like, "it was reported up the chain of command, the public was informed, and investigations were launched..."

I was rather surprised to hear this.

This was a very important statement (er, lie) from Rummy. He obviously needs us to believe he told us about this, otherwise I think this whole thing could be termed a cover-up and Americans hate cover-ups.

just means you hear well. :evilgrin:

Psst don't tell Will I said that, you know he's very protective of you. ;)

"The NewsHour", and Rumsfeld said that the public was informed of this in January. I don't know how I missed it in January, but I did. It was a surprise to me, too.

began (i.e. Jan/Feb)

is when the complaint and in feb report done, but i read somewhere else that the soldier reported it beginning of nov

Then we hear he called and did not want them to put this on TV? I have already lost trying to keep up with the fibs coning out. Be sides that have not the blogs from Iraq been hinting at this for months.

Either on CNN or the Pentagon? Sorry, I'm a little crisp around the edges today.

published.

Why would any rationale, sane, human being believe anything Rumsfeld says? Any iota of credibility he had disappeared many many moons ago.

misconduct at the prison release as a routine release in no way shows or tells anyone the extent of the problems occurring. Another thing you don't have to wait for a paper report to find out what's going on. They do have things like briefs they give the dept of defense everyday concerning misconduct. Misconduct which has the potential to cause public relations problems is highlighted and sent of the change. It's mandatory that this is done. You don't report some Marine shop lifting in Sears, but do report it if he takes hostages.

HERSH - D REHM SHOW -much worse happened; respnsibilty goes to R+W


Very good discussion - guests S Hersch, law professor, DC based reporter for ME paper, and reporter on phone for a while

Hersh main points....

...photos in New Yorker piece were entered into court martial trial - these are real, NOT fake photos

...there was one section of the prison with women prisoners and one with young boys - the info and photos of stuff done to (some of the) boys is horrific

...this whole thing goes at least to Rumsfeld with his 'Manhunter' project

...pentagon is furious with Rumsfeld, with the Iraq war - therefore he could get lots of info (much of this was said semi-indirectly)

...there have been internal investigations going back to late summer and early fall

...T....(name of general who did report Hersh talks about in his article) - whatever is said publicly, this guy is not popular now in the 'club'

...at least 40+ soldiers were involved

There was a surprising amount of discussion about the private contractors and the difficulty of charging them.

Hersh and others said that there were DOD investigations going on at least as far back as November; there is NO WAY the woman general could not have known what was going on.

One caller, whose relative is in military intelligence, said that Hersh's article, the program, the guests, etc, were stirring up trouble and making life much more dangerous for the Americans in Iraq.

Hersh and others pointed out stongly that it was the actions not the reporting that is causing the trouble.

Rehm made a very weird comment at one point - she said but 9-11 happened and all those people died horribly. But her tone of voice was odd - sort of like 'well, this is what a lot of people will say to excuse any US wrong doing.'

The guy from the ME said people there have known of major problems with US prisoners in Iraq since almost immediately after the 'fall of Baghdad.' He said the whole torture mess has been a major disaster for the US and will have extremely long-lasting negative results in ME.

Hersh implied and partially stated that what has come out is just a very minor part of a much, much larger story.

Anyone have link to transcript? If it's available on audio, listen. Tone of voice, pauses, etc, at times implied much more than was actually said.

we are all lost...really lost. When is the rest of this going to come out? I hope Hersh has a safety deposit box somewhere with this information in it as well as instructions to his executors.

are almost impossible to turn around. They either don't get it, are in denial, or worst of all, actually agree with the madmen running this country. It'll be interesting to read (a couple of decades from now) about the downfall of the American empire. That's assuming that the wingnuts don't find some reason to launch our entire nuclear arsenal.

I learned during the Nixon Administration that we have to have hope...people are entirely too cynical here! We can never give up!

the media saved us, although it took three years. Who's going to save the country this time? Certainly not the media. Yes, I still have hope, but outside of the WWW, no one in any position of power is shrieking about the serial criminals running this country.

to expose it in a National Publication or Corproate TV Pravda, where the LIE would be exposed to millions?

NO ONE.

No one.

And this is how Nations become Totalitarian and People become Slaves.

Plus a change, plus a la meme chose.
(the more things change, the more they stay the same)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A452-2004May4_2.html

When asked specifically about the criticisms leveled by senators today, the defense secretary said, "Well, we informed the world on January 16th that these investigations were underway. It seems to me that that is a perfectly proper thing to do. The investigations were announced. The world knew it."

That is not the phrasing I remember - I think this came after the part I paraphrased in my earlier post - but the basic idea is there.

I think the phrases I was remembering came in the ellipses after "they take some time" of this quote:

"I recognize the appetite of people for instant information and instant conclusions," Rumsfeld said. "These things are complicated. They take some time. . . . And they're proceeding -- everything I can see -- in a very systematic, appropriate way." - that quote is at the bottom of page 1 of the article.

I don't see any relevant 1/16 news release over at defenselink (http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2004/jan2004.html), but I did find this:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2004/n03202004_200403203.html

WASHINGTON, March 20, 2004 – The military is going to prefer charges against six soldiers accused of abusing detainees at the Abu Gharib prison, coalition officials announced today in Baghdad.

So that was back in March, but that's all I can find.

This is a case for a civilian investigation. The military of this nation is and always has been under civilian control. To defer to the military investigating themselves would not be in keeping with our Constitution. We need a special investigator, appointed by Congress (the people's representatives) to investigate and determine how far this should go.

I think it was at Antiwar.com, I saw a report of an Iraqi official who had resigned after complaining to L. Paul Bremer about this in November. This is probably the wrong qustion since the abuse and torture are part of the Bushco way of doing things. I believe that this was ordered from high up.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3980001/

Rummy was telling the truth.

Kind of matter of fact, wasn't it. Like...this kind of thing happens...all the time.