Karpinski said she knew nothing and hasn't been demoted

However.....she was on TV WITH her attorney!

First, it's no excuse for "the Boss" to say I didn't know! If she didn't know, she wasn't doing her job!

Second, if things go really bad, it's the bosses responsibility, and he/she must take the hit.

This lady isn't going down alone! I think she did know what was going on, and she also knows where the orders came from. She's a little too far away from the top people to have to protect them. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of this scandal.

ummm....

I am disgusted.

She works for a "know nothing" pResident that is held unaccountable for this entire war. Why shouldn't the "nkow nothing" defense work for her?

this is TORTURE. I am DISGUSTED.

held and she is found Guilty of ALL CHARGES... then she will go from O-7 to E-1 so fast her head will spin.

That said... folks, she also pointed the finger at Lt. General Ricardo Sanches, in theater commander in charge of Intel...

I can see this going all the way to the Secretary of Defense and all in that chain... this means, Kimmit, Abizaid, Sanchez, all the Service Chiefs and two under secretaries as well as the Secretary... and if draw the conclusion where this is leading...

Executive Order making Iraq a lawless land... yep all the way to the President... HE IS ultimately RESPONSIBLE for EVERY Crime commited under his watch in Iraq... lovely, ain't it?

At one time somebody menioned the Rico Statue, we may just see it...

the whole thing. I hope the seething anger doesn't dissipate all the dirt has been dredged up, and all the people responsible pay with jail time & fines.

Let the worldwide outrage and anger burn until this is resolved.

the very top....even though the Commander in Chief is responsible for crime inder his watch. I think that's a streatch. I do think this is sure going to help him LOSE in November!!!!!

He laid the blame on her. Called her the "woman..General."

Before he said that I was willing to give her somewhat of a break thinking she was a "fall guy/female" like Martha for the Repug Whores.

But, Hersh said it was Her. :shrug: She was relieved of her "command" and in Military circles that's a HUGE deal...or at least it was according to a family member of mine who was in the military..???

The Taguba report is "very, very critical" of Karpinski. However, the report also suggests the problem reaches much higher than Karpinski:


HERSH: Well, that's what the Taguba report says. And one of the findings he makes is not only that were the civilians in charge -- and he makes it clear, as awful and dumb as the kids were, the six or seven kids that are going to be charged for photographing it -- they were not -- they were being directed. They were being told what do and told it was OK.

He also says in the report that this problem originated in prison system in Afghanistan. So, the Army has known since the Afghanistan war in late '91 and early 2001 or 2002, they've known that the prisons, which are supposed to be run by the military police -- and by the way, let me just say, prison is a funny word.

The people in these facilities -- they are prisons -- are civilians. And according to the Taguba report, more than 60 percent of them had nothing to do with the insurgency or any trouble against Americans. They were just people picked up in sweeps.

And Taguba is really very incensed that the inability of the Army's system to weed out those who are dangerous from those who are not. They just simply weren't doing it. So, people would get into the system, picked up at a roadblock for example, thrown in there.

They had a separate wing for women -- the juveniles and children and women. It's just an amazing sort of collapse of an institution. That is the Army prison system. And it goes far beyond these six children who have been charged.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/05/03/hersh/index.html

Very good discussion - guests S Hersch, law professor, DC based reporter for ME paper, and reporter on phone for a while

Hersh main points....

...photos in New Yorker piece were entered into court martial trial - these are real, NOT fake photos

...there was one section of the prison with women prisoners and one with young boys - the info and photos of stuff done to (some of the) boys is horrific

...this whole thing goes at least to Rumsfeld with his 'Manhunter' project

...pentagon is furious with Rumsfeld, with the Iraq war - therefore he could get lots of info (much of this was said semi-indirectly)

...there have been internal investigations going back to late summer and early fall

...T....(name of general who did report Hersh talks about in his article) - whatever is said publicly, this guy is not popular now in the 'club'

...at least 40+ soldiers were involved

There was a surprising amount of discussion about the private contractors and the difficulty of charging them.

Hersh and others said that there were DOD investigations going on at least as far back as November; there is NO WAY the woman general could not have known what was going on.

One caller, whose relative is in military intelligence, said that Hersh's article, the program, the guests, etc, were stirring up trouble and making life much more dangerous for the Americans in Iraq.

Hersh and others pointed out stongly that it was the actions not the reporting that is causing the trouble.

Rehm made a very weird comment at one point - she said but 9-11 happened and all those people died horribly. But her tone of voice was odd - sort of like 'well, this is what a lot of people will say to excuse any US wrong doing.'

The guy from the ME said people there have known of major problems with US prisoners in Iraq since almost immediately after the 'fall of Baghdad.' He said the whole torture mess has been a major disaster for the US and will have extremely long-lasting negative results in ME.

Hersh implied and partially stated that what has come out is just a very minor part of a much, much larger story.

Anyone have link to transcript? If it's available on audio, listen. Tone of voice, pauses, etc, at times implied much more than was actually said.

Has Gen Karpinski already forgotten the basics????

I'm disgusted with this breed of Army leadership.

That said, I do not think the Sergeant Schultz defense should be successful.

How will Bush weasel out of this one?