My pal Dom, seeing CNN at lunch: "What is this about?"

The TV is always on CNN in the cafe downstairs. Dom, the chef, sat down with me about halfway through my lunch hour. He pointed to the TV across the room and asked, "What is this about?" I told him the Secretary of Defense was answering *cough* to the Senate Armed Services Committee. He said, "What for? What's goin' on?"
:wtf:
So I explained it to him. Described a few of the photos. Told him two prisoners were murdered. Told him about the story breaking because of CBS, not because the administration did the right thing. Etc.

His reaction stunned me: he said, "Yeah, but look at what the Germans did, and the Japanese, that death march in the Philippines . . . ." etc. His point was that "it's war. It's what happens."

I countered, "It's inhumane." Dom: "Yeah, but Kim, no one is human, and look at it, it's war. And look what they did to our guys."

I couldn't answer.

I know someone who seems to think torturing POWs is okay.

:cry:

"Well, Dom, I never imagined you think that we are on the same level as the Nazis and Japanese in China, that's good to know"

I work with a guy who said, two days ago, that what we should do is evacuate all the "good iraqis" to Jordan and nuke the country. And he MEANT IT!

What a numbnut.

He was the poster child for the ignorant Rush Limpballs listening fat arrogant American bastard everyone in the world hates.

In fact, I loathed that guy myself.
_

I've heard a few people say the "it's war" thing. Maybe you should print him out the pictures. They have a thousand more words to say to him to convince him that this is absolutely unacceptable behavior. And maybe a copy of the Geneva Conventions.

Sigh...

If not, that's a stinging indictment of our education system.

If they have, and think it only applies to other countries, we're in Beeeg Trouble. (Although, still qualifies as a stinging indictment of our education system.)

Ah, the Many Faces Of Denial.

There's a book in there somewhere.

Kanary

has been tossed out the window. How sad is this kind of thinking? What has become of our country? Is there no sympathy or shame?

George Bush's America, 2004.

our government has placed itself on very high moral ground. Behavior like this and its acceptance removes us from this moral ground.

Weren't we supposed to be the 'good' guys? So torturing
people is good now? End justifies the means, all of that?
Make him say it.

that will stand back and watch while the Americans with courage fight the revolution.
It really is OK they won't get in our way.
They won't fight for bush-co
"they''ll even pontificate about the abuse of power invariable leading to revolution"

We have absolutely not heard any reliable sources (the pow's themselves) that have said they were mistreated by the Iraqis. All of our prisoners of war at the beginning (Lynch's buddies) were returned wearing pajamas, looking clean and wounds having been treated. The guys strung up after being burned to death in an attack were DEAD. You certainly could say they were guilty of dishonoring the dead, but that is what they did. Additionally, they were not US soldiers, they were "contractors", read mercenaries. They did not torture POWs. Even Hamill, the dairy farmer from Mississippi, was in good shape, arm bandaged, etc.

There is a question in most folks heads of how our soldiers pictured in the original POW photos were killed; but, our soldiers said they were killed during battle, not when they were being held prisoner. Different rules apply.

I had an argument with a very good friend of mine about the same thing. I went back and reviewed the pictures of our dead soldiers surrounding Shoshana Johnson when those soldiers were captured. One did have his underwear askew and he looked bloody. However, if the Iraqis had done anything wrong there, I think our returned soldiers would certainly have reported this, and it would have hit all the news stands. This did not happen. Evidently, they were injured in battle, and there appeared to be an effort to treat the wounds. There was a lot of flack about these soldiers being shot in the head, which could also and probably was done during battle. I think if the Iraqis had shot these soldiers in the head, we would certainly have been informed by the returned prisoners of war. Also note, Jessica Lynch was treated very well, by her own admission, and in direct opposition to the tales told by our government, which later were disputed by Jessica. Also, why kill some soldiers, but leave others alive?

In short, your answer to your friends who insist that the Iraqis should pay for dragging our soldiers through the street, and stringing them up for all to see, should be, "These people, not soldiers in the regular sense, were DEAD, not live prisoners. They are guilty of dishonoring the dead, nothing else. The killing was an attack on a humvee, I believe; in other words, war. Our soldiers are guilty of treating prisoners, some of them civilians who have nothing to do with the fighting, in inhumane ways, and some of these civilians were murdered. Presumably, this is just the beginning of this scandel. Lots more to come.

Another huge difference is that most of these detainees, I don't believe, are soldiers, but civilians

60 percent of Abu Guraib Prison was filled with innocent civilians swept up in the military sweeps of neighborhoods.