Democrats for the Second Amendment

There was a poll here recently for what issue most DU'ers disagreed with the party platform on - the far-and-away winner was on gun control. Something I agree with - I don't know exactly how the Republicans became the right to keep and bear arms party and the Democrats became the gun grabbers. I also understand it causes the Democrats to lose in toss-up states which is insane. I could see standing by principle to be pro-union or something, but to be on the wrong side of the gun issue.

Note:

I did not have the link when I posted this but liberalnproud provided it, it is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1547604

I was pleasantly surprised by the results of this poll.

I just don't think it gives you the right to own a nuclear bomb

...assault weapons, or shoulder fired land to air missiles, or to maintain a standing private army, becaaaaause, I might accidentally get in the way of and killed by one of those arms that some nut says he or she has the constitutional right to bear.

When we have a constitutional amendment that says ALL Americans have the right to be totally sane, then perhaps we can responsibly bear arms.

Nuclear Straw Man.

:evilgrin:

All the Second Amendment is supposed to do is limit the power of the federal government.

...I strongly encourage Democrats to buy guns. The other guys sure as hell have them - and they aren't above using them, IMO.

Some people have arsenals of weapons. I don't think it's in our interests to just let the other side have all the guns. I spent my summers and winters with my grandparents in the south and they taught me how to shoot guns. My dad, a classic liberal, hated it. Now I'm in my late 20s and have bought firearms for the first time in my life over the past few months. I encourage my fellow liberals who can safely and want to own firearms to do so.

He taught me gun safety at age 10, and how to care for and use several types of firearms. He warned me about the thumb-crushing potential of the M1 Garand rifle even though we never had one. As an adult I bought one and have never gotten "Garand thumb" or had anything close to an accident with a gun.

He taught me trigger discipline for automatic weapons even though we never had one of those either. On the few occasions I've been able to fire one, I shoot short bursts of aimed fire.

Any freepers lurking here, please contact the sales department.

For Sale: One 2nd Amendment. Never used. Owned by a veteran.
Price: One month in Abu Garib prison as an EYE-RACKY. Let's see ya be a torture apologist after that. YOU FUCKS!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1547604



BTW that mantra, 'if you take away guns, then only criminals will have them' or something like that has never resonated more with me than it does today

Yes, that poll surprised me. I felt this is the major issue where I part company from most of the Democrats or the left or whatever, but I guess a lot of people agree with me. If so many Democrats feel this way, and this is actually hurting Democrats in swing states, one wonders why in debates the Republicans are always the ones defending the second amendment, and the Democrats are always the ones proposing gun control.

Since I agree with most Democrats and Greens about most things, some of the ones who are for gun control I suppose are more open to me than perhaps in public. They say things that kind of scare me like that the fact that so many people in rural areas have guns scares them, almost as if they look at these people as all latent fascists or something. I feel just the opposite - I feel much safer knowing regular Americans in Montana, Alabama, Iowa and so forth have rifles in their homes.

...honestly, I think the issue became political fodder in urban areas....when some of the democrats realized they could make hay out of a recent shooting.
I've lived in cities, but now I live in a very rural area.
The most frightening place I've lived was NE Washington DC...specifically because I knew I was a sitting duck. DC's gun laws are the strictest in the Nation, and every perp knows the general public is unarmed in the city. Since moving back to Maryland, I once again own guns, and I don't advocate them for everyone.
I do think it's idiocy for a city, county or state to hang a huge banner, basically stating "Please don't hurt us we're unarmed". The whole point to a free society, is you don't know who is or isn't armed. It works as blanket protection.
To the nay sayers: Sure you're going to have people mishandle this freedom...but heck, you have people breaking the law everyday in DC...and guns are illegal there. Freedom itself always brings a certain amount of danger...is that worth giving up a basic human right to self-defense?

is that in the last 25 years they've passed a boatload of gun control.

The assault weapons ban is to keep more dangerous guns being sold and not a gun confiscation bill.

anything. But you can hardly say it kept any guns from being sold. It just took bayonet lugs and flash suppressors off of the ones that were sold. You could argue that all of the publicity the AWB drummed up sold more assault weapons than would have been sold otherwise.

that bought a few of then before they had to be registered back in 89 or 90 I think it was.

be registered.

Well I knew they bought them, maybe the ban was the reason.

California's own "assault weapons" ban was first implemented in 1989, and expanded in 2000. It's stricter than the federal version (only one "evil" feature vs. two for the federal law), grandfathers ownership but requires registration. Unlike the federal law, California does not allow transfers of legally-owned AWs.

I'm one of those people who bought certain firearms because they were destined to be defined as assault weapons.

Good ol So Cal.

Privatre ownership of fully automatic weapons has been banned since the passage of the National Firearms Act of 1934. I fail to see how, precisely, a semi-automatic AR-15 or AK with a flash suppressor or bayonet lug is "more dangerous" than the same weapon WITH these features. If you can explain how this is, I should be quite glad to be enlightened. (Was there a problem with drive-by bayonetings?)

The NFA is a tax law. You can still buy machine guns and all of the other weapons covered by the NFA, you just have to fill out the paperwork, pay the $200 tax, submit your photograph and fingerprints, get a signature from the chief law enforcement officer in your area, and wait for them to give you the OK. Machine guns have gotten expensive, though, especially since Reagan banned civilian production of them in 1986.

I grew up in Southeast GA. I am not a gun nut and do not own a gun.

I understand, however, that most gun limitations are seen by regular hunters as the slippery slope that will lead to them not being able to own a weapon at all.

I believe like that there are reasonable limits on the grounds of safety like limits on the ownership of military weapons like assault rifles and grenade launchers.

However, a full gun ban would be a huge disaster on a scale that would make prohibition look like tiny oops in historical comparison.

Not only would it be practically impossible to enforce and basically start complete civil unrest if not outright revolt.

_

I understand, however, that most gun limitations are seen by regular hunters as the slippery slope that will lead to them not being able to own a weapon at all.

Slippery slopes are a LOGICAL FALLACY. End of story. If all you have is a "slippery slope" to defend your position, you have no argument at all.

Sometimes the slippery slope is real.

in support of the 2nd Amendment (which is actually something
totally different). I also think the NRA is one of the most
radical, extreme, and ideologic CULTS America has going. It's
despicable and evil.

There is a good compromise on gun issues, we just have to get
to the truth on it. Right now, the NRA won't let that happen.

It's a huge wedge issue to keep the blue collars from all
being Dem.

The Dem's need to take a Hunter/Sportsmen Constitutionally
Protecting tact and stick to it.

However, some on the left do have the ultimate goal of doing
away with guns altogether. It's this "final solution" that
keeps the fires burning and the NRA coffers lined.

My NRA friend says it may be on the decline because the
age demographic of the NRA is getting older, they get less
recruits in recent years. That may be one good thing.

I really think this is an important Political issue as it
really makes up peoples minds as to what party they support.

So what kind of gun control do you support? Let me hazard a guess: You want to renew the Assault Weapons Ban and close the Gun Show Loophole or maybe you want to keep things more general and don't think regular people should be able to own AK-47s and Uzis and maybe bazookas.

child....

I think trigger locks and better education of gun owners
would be a good start.

But what possible law could have prevented it?

A good law encouraging the use of the trigger lock may have
helped.

Oh, and I know - there's no way to absolutely ensure the law
would be followed. But with such thinking, why don't we
do away with:

Seat belts
Safety exits in Public buildings
Smoke alarms
Speed limits
Drunk driving laws

As well as all other safety measures for dangerous things.

:eyes:

:eyes:

lol

As for education of gun owners, good luck with that. The gun grabbers aren't interested in educating people about guns.

...fucking GOP wedge issue...as is abortion and welfare. It's useless to debate this issue with RWingers.

Perhaps even flyer at gun shows to tell gun owners why voting Republican is the worst thing they can do (The Republicans are seeking one-party monopoly, and once that happens, with the Patriot Act, it's only a matter of time before they confiscate all the guns).

Wayne Lapiere has been in office. Remember even George Bush Sr. quit the NRA after Wayne Lapiere called the FBI Jack-booted thugs. I quit when they opposed putting taggets in explosives after the Oklahoma City bombing. Their excuse, they could possibly damage gun barrels.

I was pleasantly surprised by the support at DU for all ten amendments in the Bill of Rights. I have been heard to say, "I'm the freepers' biggest nightmare-a liberal with a gun."

I don't use my gun on any living thing. I like to shoot targets, especially rotten fruit.

In any case, my main thought here is that in a free society, no one should be able to tell me that I can't own a gun.

I agree that Dems being associated with gun grabbing has lost us many elections.

(Note to mods: Can't we include "freeper" in our spelling dictionary so it doesn't get flagged as a non-word? I don't see that as according them any respect. We have worse words in there.)

--IMM

"You don't want to take my guns away like Klintoon and Al Bore do?"

If I had a buck for every time I heard THAT one from a ditto-monkey on the Ham Radio, I could afford the kind of toys TinMan has.

I'm also one of those "Rural White NRA Rednecks" some on the left think we all are out here in Corn Country. First, I ain't a Redneck, second, I don't belong to the NRA, and third, life's fucking lonely enough, being the only Liberal in town, w/o getting the starbucks-snob treatment from some urban hipster who would freak if his 911 response time was greater than 2 minutes.

but now im starting to rethink it(I must admit that Im not completely sure what is meant by gun control). After watching Micheal Moore's bowling for columbine, I think the problems we have with guns in this country is not so much with guns themselves, but its more of a societal issue. Kids bring gun to schools not just because they can, but because they strive for attention. Also I think most of the crimes that occur in this country is because of the social repressions that are placed on society, ie drugs, sex, naughty words, gambling. People feel they must lash out, and the degree to which they lash out can vary from person to person. If I had it my way, I would legalize all drugs, prostitution, and any other social vice you can think of, and regulate it to ensure a maximum amount of safety. Why do you think theres so much hatred towards the police, especially by the youth of this country. Its because they represent the government which tries to phyiscally prevent them from indulging in the activities that our country feels we should not engage in. I guess you can call me a social libertarian, but honestly how well has the war on drugs gone?? How much crime out there occurs because of our war on drugs?? People still want to use drugs, so how else are they gonna get them?? The black market, and along with that comes all the dangers of a black market. If we legalize all these things, then there would be no need for people to engage in crimes to get the things they want, and without crime there would be no need for gun control. There are a lot of things wrong with this country, but until we can let people be who they want to be, then we're not gonna go anywhere.

Its about militias. Keeping the states armed to counter the presidents army. Gun rights are derived from your right to own property. They have never been defended by the 2nd ammendment. Its about the right for states to maintain armed militias. Period.