What does a guy have to do

to get the Right to see the error of their ways?

I'm in a psudo-debate on the MSN forums with this hard-right winger who keeps swearing by investors and capital gains. "don't punish investors because they create jobs!" harf harf harf puke :puke:

I'm trying to point out that if any emphasis should be placed on economic stimulation, it should be on the middle-class and not the investors. The middle-class is the engine that drives this country, if you want a better economy, make a better middle-class, it's simple as that.

Anything else I can do to argue my point? I don't want to degenerate to the level of this facist, so I'm trying to fight fire with water.

until a little trickle-down economics comes their way. Unless something hits close to home, they have no reason to question the status quo.

against trickle-down, but this nimrod keeps plugging his virtual ears and singing "la la la la, I can't hear you"

Try "you just don't want to work for a living, you want welfare-for-the-rich". Ask him if he has a "welfare-Cadillac that he pays for with his tax-cut".

Somebody like that just won't listen....let him go on his merry way and rest peacefully knowing you did your best.

Investments can help leverage work but they have no value without work. Work has value even without investment.

In our current recession, with the price of borrowed money near 0%, any person or business could get all the "investment" they wanted by borrowing money if there was any reason to do so. But, without buyers, there's no need to expand a business.

If a business is shrinking, it doesn't need new investment, it needs new customers!

Like the business owner said on 60 Minutes yesterday, "The tax cuts only help you if you're making a profit. I haven't made a profit for 3 years so they're no help to me at all."

They put money they already have into a pot filled with money that other people already have in the hopes of getting even more money in return. The only way they make that money is if yet more people put money into the pot. It's essentially gambling with other people's money, jobs, and livelihoods--a grand Ponzi scheme.

I am proud to never have owned a stock in my life. Not even a 401(k) or an IRA account. I don't believe in them.

A fact: Laissez-faire (the essence of "trickle-down", "Voodoo economics") has never worked in history. Ask your opponent to provide examples of when it has. Chances are, he'll try to bluff his way out with Reaganomics. Steer him instead to the economic policies that created the 19th Century robber barons and the Great Depression. Then remind him that Bush I, using Reagan's policies, proceded to destroy the economy. This won't convince him in any way shape or form, but at least the truth will be out there for other members of the Board to consider. That can take the sting out of his argument. What he himself believes is irrelevant, because it's unchangeable.

They only create the jobs that they have to create to generate profits. Ever notice how a company's stock usually rises when they announce they're going to lay off 5,000 people?

That's great news for their shareholders, but pretty pissy for the employees.

Especially since the employees were the only ones contributing to social security and medicare. And their payroll taxes were the only source of revenue the municipal and state government got due to tax abatements given to attract the business in the first place.

Say there's not tax on dividends and capital gains. Acme Corp. has $100 million net profit. What will they do with the money?

A. Leave it in the bank.
B. Launch a new marketing campaign, buying advertising and increase
production to help keep up with demand. Next year they have
$150 million net profit.
C. Pay it out to the shareholders, who won't have to pay taxes on
it, and will buy more of this great stock, thereby increasing
the stock price. Then they can close the plant and produce the
product in China so next year they can net $500 million.

Decisions, decisions! Which does the tax policy encourage them to do?