Bill Moyers on Lou Dobbs yesterday.

Dobbs and Moyers are a POWERFUL combination.

(transcript)
DOBBS: My guest tonight, a legendary journalist, author, who says the soul of democracy in this country is dying. Bill Moyers has covered politics and world affairs for a very long time. And he says today our very faith in self-government is, quote, "drowning in a rising tide of big money contribution from a narrow elite," end quote.

His latest book, "Moyers on America: A Journalist and His Times," a collection of his works spanning the last decade, and he joins us now. Bill, I'm delighted to have you here.

BILL MOYERS, AUTHOR, "MOYERS ON AMERICA": Same to be here.

DOBBS: And your book is, I must say, I consider myself a rather straightforward fellow, but you get right to it, in talking about the idea that democracy is dying. What do you mean by that?

MOYERS: Well, I mean that the soul of democracy is representative government. We can't all make policy. We can't all keep a watch on things. We elect representatives who go to Washington and we expect them to make their best measured judgment in our behalf. We won't agree with them all the time. We won't disagree with them all the time.

But when they go to Washington now, Lou, you know as well as I do that they more often follow the dictates of their big donors than they do of their voters. Whether it's in our middle (ph) policy, tax policy, trade policy or whatever. The people who buy access are the ones who get the last word. And that's what I mean by that. The rich have every right to buy as many homes as they want, as many cars as they want, as many gizmos as they want, but they do not have the right to buy more democracy than the rest of us.

DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more, obviously. And I think most of our viewers would agree with you as well, because they lack, as do I, the ability to buy all of those gizmos, and certainly votes in Washington, D.C. But how do we change it? That -- the idea that -- Arthur Schlessinger wrote a terrific book some eight or nine years ago, I think, on the effect of multiculturalism in this country, on the wound to pluralism in this country, participatory democracy. How do we change it? How do we turn it around?

MOYERS: The attitude that we can't change it is part of the diagnosis. We have to keep believing that individuals make a difference in this society. The voters in Maine, the voters in Massachusetts and the voters in Arizona all went to the polls and approved public funding for state elections. Now, I know the critics of that say, well, we don't want to pay for the politicians. But the voters in those states decided if anybody is going to own the politicians, we the people are.

DOBBS: What a novel idea.

MOYERS: Novel idea. So in Arizona, for example, there are schoolteachers who ran for the state assembly and won. There are plumbers, there are house -- homemakers. That public funding, very cheap, about $5 a year per person is open -- it's called clean money. And it is working.

The other thing, we need a vigilant press. The ultimate safeguard of democracy is to spread sunshine in the closet. You know, I saw a play not far from here once called, by Tom Stoppard, called "Night and Day." There's a line by a news photographer in there, I thought of it the first time I saw these photographs from Iraq. "People do terrible things to each other, but it's worse in places where they're kept in the dark."

What we need is a vigilant CNN, a vigilant PBS, vigilant, independent journalists who will tell the truth about both parties. Because both parties are complicit in this undermining of democracy through money.

DOBBS: I can, again, -- this has got to trouble our viewers because I couldn't agree with you more. We've got to find something to argue about here.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0405/10/ldt.00.html

To see Dobbs agreeing, point-by-point with Moyers was mind-boggling.

Dobbs may be a conservative, but he's not a neocon.

if you think that, you haven't been watching his show regularly enough. I'm a died in the wool Kennedy democrat, and I find his common sense approach to politics and the economy the most refreshing news show on nightly television

I always considered Dobbs a conservative but I now find myself agreeing with him on a LOT of issues.

Maybe "Kennedy Democrats" were really "moderates"?

there was not one moderate in my Peace Corps group in Ecuador

I've gotta say, my respect for the man is growing by the day.

Looks like Dobbs is more of an old time traditional conservative than we give him credit for around here.

His principled stand on outsourcing has made me a fan.

I loved this part the best:

DOBBS: And the great genius of the system is that we've always been able to make those corrections. Sometimes they are imposed upon us but overall because of good people and great values in this country we usually find our way with a little help.

MOYERS: But remember, it took 250 years to get rid of slavery then it took a bloody civil war and it took another hundred years before (UNINTELLIGIBLE) was really won and the Voting Rights Act of 1964 and 1965. How long did it take for women to get the right to vote or unions to get the right to organize. This is essentially a slow and conservative society. If we wait too long, it may be too late.

DOBBS: Bill Moyers, it is terrific for you to be here and we appreciate it so much. And come back soon, would you?

MOYERS: Thank you very much.

Be sure to catch his weekly PBS program "Now".

DOBBS: I can, again, -- this has got to trouble our viewers because I couldn't agree with you more. We've got to find something to argue about here. The fact of the matter is, when you look at the major issues facing us today, whether it's the war on Iraq, whether it is the war on terrorism, whether it is the Patriot Act, whether it's the trade deficit, the budget deficit, somebody separate for me the difference of the two parties and their views on them because I can't find the difference.

MOYERS: Not in any significant way. There are differences on the environment, differences on separation of church and state. I heard your interview with Wes Boyd and Joan Blades. The one part of our society that is really keeping democracy alive at the grassroots is the Christian right. They take seriously their desire and their gospel of influencing government. But most things the two parties when they get to Washington are business parties. They represent business. That's OK. American history is a see-saw between organized people and organized money. Economic interests have every right to be heard and to influence. But the see-saw is like this now and it won't go back down.
***
"The one part of our society that is really keeping democracy alive at the grassroots is the Christian right. They take seriously their desire and their gospel of influencing government."

HUH?!

Moyers is unfortunately right. The christian right is focused in a way i can only hope our own liberal/progressive left can and shall imitate

and yes, we better get more focused.

but THEY ARE NOT DEMOCRATIC.

but they are masters in the USE of the democratic process - this is where we have to do a better grass roots job if we want to catch up with them

somewhat meant fundies are making us all more active, leading to increased democracy.
it is motivating, to say the least!

but it hurt.

fundies would burn me at the stake in a second. and they don't even pretend to support democracy.


peace

Took them a while, but they mastered the art. It's all out now, how to organize, so let's copy them. Just like in all areas of life, folks take what others have done, and copy and improve on it. The CR will always be limited in power outside of a theocratic revolution, because their message skews extreme. Our populist message can appeal to a lerger populace. We have a better chance at taking and maintaining power because our potential audience is larger. They are just harder to keep close.

Bill Moyers comments were not a warning so much as a scream.

How about that state funded campaign stuff? That is new to me. Sounds exciting!

...for separating your trash.

Man phone banks, get out the vote, join the local party apparatus and work with it until you end up running it. Sweat the small stuff.

and it was, yes, a scream to me, as you see. i guess that makes it very timely and appropriate!
sadly true.

i did love the ideas about financing, yes. very exciting the difference that would make!
**
i should have emphasized better this part that upset me too:
Dobbs: ...somebody separate for me the difference of the two parties and their views on them because I can't find the difference.

MOYERS: Not in any significant way....

***
i feel that this is the exact harm Nader is doing, saying that.

we must all be educating constantly on the extreme, and CRUCIAL difference!

the media is not letting Kerry even catch his breath between quite important speeches and policy descriptions that they won't give any notice to. maybe he should be out debating more?


thank you! off for now.

the word "GREED". Notice Lou was a little surprised that Moyer's was picking on the corporations. Corporate greed is ruining our democracy. The media is scared to say or print the term "corporate greed".

Just watched it on TiVo, and am still amazed, first that Moyers made it on to Cable News and second, that Dobbs agreed with Moyers on every point.

As for the parties being alike, I was disappointed with Moyer's answer, but if you listened closely what he said was that once a politician gets to Washington, he starts working for big business.

I guess we still have some democracy at the local and state levels, but I also disagree that the parties are exactly alike, even at the national level.