McCain as VP... a different look...

OK.. I see people going ballistic over even the CONCEPT of McCain being Kerry's VP. Now, I don't think it's likely.. but if we stand back a little bit, there ARE more positive than negative aspects to the idea.

First thing tho.. we need to back off and not be so RABID about it not happening. Saying the 'once a pug, always a pug' is like the Freepers saying that "Liberals are liars, traitor and cowards - period".

We really outta stand ABOVE them, judge the man by ALL he is, not just what we wanna see that we can use against him.

I used to live in AZ also, and the comment that someone made about McCain being a "Democrat-lite" is pretty on target. He's NEVER fit the mold of a 'pug, he may have some of their views, but on the whole his views are HIS OWN.

People say he's voted with BushCo 90% of the time.. well, didn't Kerry vote with Cheney et.al. on the Defense measures that they're now trying to use against him? I guess the point is look at HOW he voted, not HOW MANY TIMES.

Same on the choice issue, he may be personally against something, but not willing to force those views on the populace (he at least takes the exceptions for rape and the health of the mother.. hard-core 'pugs say "it's God's will if she dies"...

Now, what GOOD could come from McCain accepting the VP post?

1) you have TWO unquestionable WAR HEROS on the ticket. Try and top that Shrubya.

2) you have one of the 'movers/shakers' of the 'pugs jumping ship. The only way he could do that is RENOUNCE the Republican Party as 'no longer being in the best interests of the nation'. He DOES NOT have to become a DEM, that infact would be the WORST thing he could do. He should simply declare his INDEPENDENCE from the REPUBLICANS and be HIS OWN MAN. He simply thinks that Kerry is the best hope for the country.

2a) this of course is the absolute DESTRUCTION of the REPUBLICAN PARTY AS WE KNOW IT.

3) OPEN-MINDED people that want a UNIFIED country would flock to them, CLOSED-MINDED, rabid people (of all views) would run the other way. I think there are more people that want unity than division.

4) obligatory Sun-Tzu quote: "The enemy of my enemy is my ally"

5) someone else made the comment that we could take back the house/senate now. You betcha. Once the pug-party is in flames and division, the THINKING people band together.

In the long run, I think Kerry has already let it be know that he's got a place for McCain in his administration (Sec of Defense), and that's a good thing..

BUT, AGAIN I SAY. I don't think that McCain would take the position, but if he did, it's NOT A DISASTER. It could be something amazing. Be we need to keep open minds, rather than the rusty close minds of 'pugs..

If that happens, I will say that Nader was right and write in Attilla the Hun for president next November. (And that will put the local election judges' panties in a twist, as happened in 2002 when I wrote in Paul Vallas vs. Rod Blagoevich for Illinois governor).

But why McCain and not some proven repuke vote getter who has served in high office?

How about Tricky Dick? Okay, so he's dead. I live in Chicago, where the dead vote early and often and see no problem with this. Nixon was a great vote getter and even won by a landslide in 1972 with the spectre of Watergate hanging over his head.

Or, how about Ronnie Ray-goon? Okay, so he is at death's door. So what? He won by a large margin in 1980 and a landslide in 1984. And he was a war hero! He played one in the movies.

"But why McCain and not some proven repuke vote getter who has served in high office?"

Because McCain still has a score to settle with Shrubya.. and more "thinking" people still see the Rove-treatment that McCain got during the 2000 primaries as foul.. McCain would pull the 'thinking' Republicans that truly despise Shrubya but couldn't bring themselves to vote Democratic.. but can vote for "the Man" McCain.

McCain is a far better patriot than the rest of the Republicans.

That ticket is a land slide, grand-slam ticket. Only worry about perception that Dems wont win in this age without co-opting Republicans or adopting DLC, Repub-lite stands on issues. McCain is pro-choice too and has made so many pro-Bush utterances about the coming election, it selection is not gonna happen.

"Only worry about perception that Dems wont win in this age without co-opting Republicans or adopting DLC, Repub-lite stands on issues."

It's the beginning of the perception that Dems want to do what the country and the world NEEDS, not what a party line SAYS.

- McCain would be willing to place personal views aside for the NEEDS OF THE COUNTRY.

- Kerry would be willing to take on a former 'political adversary' for the NEEDS OF THE COUNTRY.

good heavens... meaningful compromise... what's next... peace???

"Deciding" that we need a Republican president if Kerry wins with McCain behind him. Things are way too volatile right now for me to think that a bipartisan ticket can work to make everyone sing KumBahYah.

the exact same thing the other day. :toast:

Some whacko will decide they want McCain as President and will do whatever is necessary to make that happen. Either that or the Repugs will file articles of impeachment against Kerry on January 21st, 2005.

time someone mentioned it. After all, it's DEMOCRATS who get killed, not Republicans. Apparently Democratic politicians have an unusually high incidence of violent deaths.

I do not want a Rebug for VP..this is insane. Let something happen to Kerry and now again we have the Rebugs in office. NO NO NO. I like McCain all right as Rebugs go but again NO NO NO to VP.

he couldn't run as a Republican.. he would have to be INDEPENDENT. Not as a DEM EITHER..

(as an aside.. what would this do for future INDEPENDENT candidates? If McCain actually was INDEPENDENT and not DEM, but allied with a DEM on the ticket.. would that mean that INDEPENDENT candidates would have to be taken into consideration in future races??)

Supported numbnuts 90 percent of the time.

Any repuke on our ticket and the 3 votes in this household will write in Wes Clark.BTW he is a war hero also.

I'll vote third party and hope Gov Dean can get a new Democratic party going for 2008. And further more, the thought of any Republican in a prominent position in a Kerry administration is not one I'm happy with. Bipartisan my ass, this is a war and unless we fight it to the death we lose. Cause you can believe the right wing understands that simple fact.

of putting McCain on the Dem. Ticket. It could very well drive many, that have been trying to hang on in the Dem. Party, to abandon it and vote Green or Independant.
This is the last chance for the Democratic Party, for many Progressives. And this does not just apply to the election, but also as to how they govern if they win this election.

It is very difficult to fight a war sucessfully if your home population is completely devided (eg Vietnam). Most countries in time of war form 'national governments' containing members of all the political parties of that country. This idea of McCain as VP is starting to look very like this to me.

Sully in the Times in britain today mentions 'national governments' too in relation to the McCain as VP issue.

because his prosecution of the war is so totally incompetant.

If enough REPUBLICAN Representative's or Senator's stood up tomorrow, said "I can no longer support the positions of goals of the Republican party and throw my support to the Democratic Party" or "I am declaring myself Independent" that took control AWAY from the 'pugs. We would be dancing in the streets and the 'pugs would be in shambles..

What's the difference if McCain said "I can no longer support the positions and goals of the leadership of the Republican party, I declare myself an INDEPENDENT and ally myself with John Kerry for the good of this country".

What's the difference???

no double standard at all.These assholes mean to stick it to the middle class at all cost including the Constitution and Bill Of Rights. Bottom line class warfare is joined.

If he were to do this, WITHOUT promise of the VP nod, then I might be a little more understanding of Kerry CONSIDERING him for VP, but McCain hasn't done this yet, and the clock is ticking.

If he really wants to distance himself from the neo-cons who have taken over the republicans, he needs to do it now, he should have done it a while ago, and it needs to be without the promises of any rewards for doing so.

When Bush had his 80% approval rating there wasn't any talk of dumping Cheney and putting a Dem on board as a "unity candidate".

why is it incumbent upon the Democrats, the challengers to a president in whole shitload of trouble, to put forward the "unity" ticket when they could stand to benefit from a Bush implosion without making any concessions whatsoever?

and further marginalize any "moderates" or conciliatory types. McCain would be seen as a traitor within the party, and this would give the hard nosed DeLay types more cause to harass anyone who attempts to find common ground as mere appeasers.

This could serve to help keep people like Chaffee, Snowe and Collins in line by portraying all non-reactionaries as potential traitors.

It's just a bad idea.

McCain's far too conservative, and this would be seen as a sign of weakness and a sanctification of reactionary points of view.

Why don't we just take out full-page ads confirming the conservatives' tiresome talking points: we hate ourselves, we can't exist without them, we're bankrupt of ideas and we'll sell out anyone--including our base--to get elected. Just stop, will you? It's a horrendous idea.

happen for a number of reasons, all enumerated on this thread by others. I think your analysis is all right though.

agenda ( I feel like she took enough grief in the WH already) and McCain's agenda. They forget one thing. The guy is a total loyalist. When offerred early departure from the Hanoi Hilton due to his familial military status, he refused unless his fellow prisoners were released as well. He thought that decision would result in a few more months of incarceration. It turned into several years. He's not switching parties. Nor is he running on a Dem ticket. Get over it.

Loved his joke this morn. He's a true character.

try analizing some specifics before posting a bunch of abtract generalizations that may or may not apply.

Maybe then you'll see why so many people have reacted so negatively to the "prospect" of McCain on the ticket-

Democrats will find this unacceptable.

Though the media has been labeling presidential hopeful John McCain a "liberal", his ADA voting record tells a different story. With a lifetime rating of 9%, National Director Amy Isaacs said, "It is a great defamation of our character to call John McCain a liberal. The very few places he has voted for the 'liberal' position just go to show a person can't be wrong all the time." The only area where McCain's voting record is even in the moderate range, with a 45% voting record, is in the area of campaign finance, which brought him to the spotlight in the first place (the McCain/Feingold bill being a well-known good bill on campaign finance). On such valued ADA issues as Education, Housing, and Social Security, McCain scored a 0%. Listed below are the three candidates with ADA voting records, side by side for comparison. A full voting record of individual votes can be obtained from ADA, although it is quite lengthy.

Statistics from the ADA:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~nycada/newnews/news0003-2.html

Project Vote Smart

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0061103

ACLU

http://archive.aclu.org/vote-guide/239.html

Daily Kos

On the other hand, he's, what do you call them... a Republican. His 2002 ratings, with Kerry's in parenthesis:

Americans for Democratic Action (liberal): 20 (85)
ACLU: 0 (60)
AFSCME (labor): 29 (88)
LCV (environmental): 41 (94)
Concord (pro-balanced budget): 95 (65)
National Taxpayer's Union (anti-tax): 75 (18)
Chamber of Commerce: 79 (55)
Christian Coalition: 79 (55)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/3/213110/5512

McCain has an ACU lifetime voting record of 84% which makes him more conservative than any Democrat in the Senate. He supported tax cuts, supported a ban on partial birth abortion and supported the appointment of judicial nominees by President Bush.

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0404/0404veepstakes2.htm

I do NOT want a fucking Republican on OUR party's ticket--- no way, no how and under no circumstances!

How's that for a 'different look'?

:wtf:

and a slap in the face to many good, well qualified Democratic Members, who have worked long and hard, within the party, to make things better.
However, I would prefer that it not be a sitting House or Senate Member. If we only take back the White House, and not the Congress, we won't have gained much. Legislation is passed or defeated in the Congress, as are appointments.

Roscoe. 76 posts. Pushing hard in all I've seen of his today for McCain as running mate. Lotsa seemingly well thought out reasons that will never in a million years play with the Dem base.

Hmmm.

Gee, Roscoe, what job do you hold with the DLC? Are you just a lowly intern, an up and coming staffer, or one of the big boys? C'mon. You can tell us. We're all your friends.

"Gee, Roscoe, what job do you hold with the DLC? Are you just a lowly intern, an up and coming staffer, or one of the big boys? C'mon. You can tell us. We're all your friends."

... and I start getting accused of what? treason next?

I'm so glad to see an open exchange of ideas is welcome.

You think an open exchange of ideas means that people have to accept your point of view?

"You think an open exchange of ideas means that people have to accept your point of view?"

.. can people do it without throwing personal insults???

if we want another "war hero" on the ticket, Wesley Clark is a far better choice . . .

for the umpteenth time?

and WHY is it always started by someone who just registered on DU?

hey, read my lips: NO REPUBLICANS NEEDED on the Democratic ticket.
It would NOT "unify" the country; it would ENSURE that the stinking Republicans are STILL IN POWER, still have their grimy, greedy, lying selfish paws on the executive branch of the government. It would make the Democrats look like FUCKING FOOLS who don't have anybody good enough on their own side to run. The goal is to GET RID OF THE REPUBLICANS from every corner of the government, NOT REINSTALL THEM.

If McCain wants to be on the Democratic ticket, he must first BE A DEMOCRAT. and apparently he like the Republican side well enough to just stay where he is. HE IS A REPUBLICAN.

sheesh.