I support This Solider-went AWOL and seeking CO because of prisioner abuse

i was going over the current issue of The Progressive and found a little box on Camilo Mejia
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He refused to serve in an oil driven war.That took guts braver than just following orders and serving in an unjust war

...and strength of conviction to stand and fight against it instead of running away. Now he is simply another AWOL soldier.

He did what was right for him by preforming civil disobedience and possibly going to prision as a statement he also mentions the prisioner abuse to the press and in his objector application

It's cowardice.

What he should have done is stayed at his unit. Refused the orders. Started a Congressional Inquiry, which is his right as a service member. Got the American Media involved using his family as the outside agitators. Hell...damn near anything except going AWOL. Now he's Bush.

For instance, I'll give you the story of SPC Jeremy Hinzman, a recent military deserter who fled to Canada rather than be deployed to Iraq.

SPC Hinzman was deployed to Afghanistan. Prior to deployment, he submitted an application for CO. He was assigned to virtually perpetual KP duty while in Afghanistan, to accomodate his beliefs. During the investigation of his claim, he was asked if his base came under direct attack, if he would pick up a weapon and help his friends.

He said he would. The Army said that the matter was then settled, that he obviously was not a conscientious objector.

SPC Hinzman returned from Afghanistan with his unit. Then, recently, his unit was ordered to deploy to Iraq. Rather than go through something that ran counter to his beliefs once again, he instead took his wife and young son, and the three of them fled to Canada seeking refugee status.

I would hardly call SPC Hinzman a coward for doing this. He may never be able to return to the US. He may never be able to see lifelong friends and family members again. He simply followed his conscience the best that he could, knowing that he tried to follow the appropriate channels once before only to find his claims falling on deaf ears.

Instead of staying here and fighting the good fight he decided to pogue out and run for the hills. Instead of making a statement that would have benefited himself, his fellow soldiers, and everyone here in the States trying to stop this insanity he ran off.

It dosen't matter that his statement would have fallen on deaf ears. There are other channels, which are leagal and proper, outside of his chain of command.

and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend (or myself*), I hope I should have the guts to betray my country.

E.M. (Edward Morgan) Forster (1879–1970), British novelist, essayist. Two Cheers for Democracy, “What I Believe,” (1951).


(*edit)

Particularly considering that in this case the soldier betrayed himself, his country, his friends, the Iraqi people....

when they should fight and die. When will we place appropriate value on pacifism? My guess, never, because killing is so readily and weakly justified. Me, I'm happy that some folks have decided that they will not kill, under any circumstances. It gives me hope that others will follow suit.

This soldier may have betrayed a bloodthirsty society bent on crushing an innocent society to further our hunger for power, and to impress other countries with our prowess in killing and conquering, to bully the rest of the world with our weapons, but he kept faith with the teachings of some impressive individuals, Jesus, for example.

It has been so heartening to me to hear of the Israeli refusniks. It gives me hope when people act on their convictions - of not killing when they know it isn't justified.

He's an AWOL soldier and a coward. The Refusnicks stood their ground and accepted the consequences. This guy ran away to hide.

Don't be daft and inflamitory, ok? IF you can point out where I have said he should I will retract my statement and apologize.

I'm telling him he was obligated to stand his ground and accept the consequences of his decisions. Fighting teh good fight inseatd of running off and leaving it for someone else to do. IOW he had no moral strength behind his convistions and decided to quit instead.

I don't know what world you've been living in, but this isn't a good fight. They're over there fighting and dying so some wrinkled up turds over here can have a few billion $$'s more to swim in. I wouldn't exactly call that a good fight. This guy signed up thinking he was going to serve his country, instead he learned he signed up to slaughter people so rich people could get richer, he decided he'd rather keep his soul, sounds like my kind of guy.

But you call him a coward, good for you. I doubt covets the scorn of 'people' who would have him slaughter innocents for bank accounts and then call it a good fight. Good people rarely desire praise from those lacking in scruples.

Looking at the words does not constitute reading BTW. Please try to pay attention and keep up with the discussion, ok?

The good fight would be staying here and fighting against the war. He didn't. He ran to Canada and hid. Now he's a criminal and a coward. :shrug:

Forgive me for missing the obvious sub-text to your statements that leave absolutely no room for misinterpretation. However, I don't see much opportunity for fighting said good fight by returning to Iraq and continuing to be an accomplice to war crimes. Battlefields aren't known for being hospitible places for soldiers to conduct civil disobedience, unless of course he could have convinced his entire unit to lay down their arms. Of course I imagine there'd be a nice summary execution in store for him if he tried that route.

Who's to say what his options were, but by all means, don't let that a little thing like perspective stop you from calling someone a coward from the harrowing battle field of internet chat boards.

Who says I can't be magnanimous.

Soldier who fled 'oil-driven' war faces court-martial
By RUSS BYNUM Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press
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SAVANNAH, Ga. Two months after he surrendered to the Army saying he preferred prison to fighting an "oil-driven war," a U.S. soldier who left his unit in Iraq faces a court-martial this week on desertion charges

snip

He was gone for five months until he turned himself in to the Army in March, saying his war experience made him decide to seek conscientious objector status.

The desertion charge against Mejia is being treated separately from his application for objector status because he did not return to the Army as ordered before filing the paperwork.


-- and much more --

So what's your beef? He's getting more publicity because of the AWOL status / court martial than he ever would have had he gone the route you're insisting is the only morally pure and righteous one.

I've never been fond of relative morality. It skates way too close to hypocrasy.

Your argument was that he shoulda stayed here (instead of going AWOL) to fight his case -- because that would've been better for "the cause."

So, he took a few extra weeks to get to where you wanted him to be. But he got there. But that's still not good enough for you.

Maybe it's just that I lived through the Vietnam war, and as a result I frankly consider the avoidance of fighting in an immoral, illegal, unjustified and unjustifiable war like we're waging in Iraq by any means necessary plenty honorable all by itself (yes, including desertion), and it matters not to me at all how he fights his fight -- whether by going AWOL or not, staying AWOL or not, standing court martial or not, etc. I'm just glad he did it. I'd like to see a lot more military men and women of conscience do it.

It would be another matter entirely if Conscientious Objector status weren't hell on wheels, nigh on impossible to achieve. But it is.

You call him a coward; I call him a hero.

I call those supporting him many things too.

It's only self-rightous judgementalism if you do it from afar. I'm stearing the very same monster down as he failed to do. I am, unfortunately, very close to being in the same position as he was.

CO status should be damn near impossible to get in an all volunteer military. Thank the Goddess that it is.

Some of us can stand and fight, some cannot. You feel free to berate him as a coward for deserting, but you devalue his commitment to refrain from killing. If he stayed, with a weapon in hand, he might have killed.

". . . he surrendered to the Army saying he preferred prison to fighting an "oil-driven war."

"Mejia has said he left the war in part because he was upset over seeing civilians killed. He said he was particularly upset over an incident in which his unit was ambushed and civilians were hit in the ensuing gunfire, and another in which he said an Iraqi boy died after confusion over which military doctor should treat him."

He experienced a mix of emotions, ranging from fear, to revulsion at the deaths and killing. We've seen the images, some have actually experienced the same horror of war, and it's generally a nightmare. You may understand this. Some of these soldiers come to grips with this reality and push on, finding whatever justification that will keep them there. But at some point soldiers must ask themselves what they are doing and why. They are not machines, they are individuals, some with precious few years in 'adulthood'.

This soldier was overwhelmed and found the reality of war beyond what he could participate in. He fled. He hid. He surrendered, still maintaining his conviction against war. This will define him. I won't castigate him for it. I will allow him to represent himself as a pacifist, against war, senseless war like in Iraq. Perhaps his action and conviction will influence others against war, senseless war like in Iraq.

:) It's good to have permission.

and I get pretty sanctimonious, at times. I don't mean to be.

Comes with the territory really. That and believeing that you are right. I think the trick is reminding yourself that you might be wring.

Hardly a natural environment, if you're talking a true, 'obligate' pacifist.

after you enlist, but I would hope that soldiers are driven by more of a moral compass than is contained in some military creed.