Free Parking is For Monopoly Boards, Not Pregnant Women .(grouchy guy rant

Boy-howdy.. this guy's not gonna win many female friends.. is he??
I guess this proves that men can get their panties in a twist..:evilgrin:


http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/p/p-misc/phillips050504.htm

Free Parking is For Monopoly Boards, Not Pregnant Women

May 5, 2004



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by John Phillips

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Fearing that the state of California isn’t dishing out enough special perks at Wal Mart for those who forget to use condoms, one state assemblyman is proposing a bill that would allow pregnant women to park in spots designated for those with physical handicaps. Pregnant women across America are hailing the event as the biggest win for expecting mothers since NBA superstar and seven-time illegitimate father Shawn Kemp agreed to pay child support.

Republican Assemblyman Tony Strickland said he was sparked to introduce the legislation after hearing complaints from angry constituents who – gasp – couldn’t find parking next to the front door at Macy’s. He tells the L.A. Daily News, “a lot of them gave me stories about how they didn’t go to the mall or supermarket because they couldn’t walk all the way from a normal parking spot.” While it’s understandable that nine months of pregnancy would teach some women the virtues of keeping their legs together – walking an extra four spaces in the parking lot isn’t exactly the ‘trail of tears.’ Even for pregnant women.

Handicapped spaces aren’t meant to be some sort of ‘employee of the month’ perk for whatever group whines the loudest in Sacramento. If so, the prison guards’ union would have had it in their contract long ago. These spaces are meant for people with serious physical disabilities. Pregnant women are literally demanding that triple amputees and paraplegics stop being so damn greedy!

Without getting too biological, these are apples and oranges. You choose to get pregnant. You don’t choose to have cancer. With the possible exception of Ethel Kennedy – no woman has ever been born pregnant.

In addition, it is highly possible for those with physical handicaps to be single and childless. Paranoid Vietnam vets with missing limbs who sport pirate eye-patches and suffer from dementia aren’t exactly known for cleaning up in the singles bars.


more from this nasty-tempered guy ....

and why did you stay to read it? It seems to be dedicated to guys who'd rather lose their money to online gambling than pay child support to their babies' mamas.

I didn't know what story to read first...the report about more sex being tied to higher prostate cancer rate, or African women raping men at gunpoint in order to infect them with AIDS.

Instead, I read about polyamorists' rights in light of the push for legalizing gay marriage. I've been wondering when unions of three or more were going to become an issue.

But it doesn't look like the men on this site want to get married, period. Or have children. Or have sex.

On the other hand, they have a personals section. LMAO!

you can find some DOOZIES of "news" stories..

I will have to try it. This one's a pretty wild find.

Spikes!

The part that got me was his lying in wait to snap pictures.

That, and hearing a Republican say his party is underrepresented in Florida. :eyes:

that he put in yards without permission.. Bold bugger, eh??

They want to have children, but don't want the courts to force them to support them once the marriage is over. I guess they are supposed to just be trusted to send whatever money they deem enough to support the kid(s). Or maybe no money at all. I'm not quite clear on that. This site is geared toward losers who feel like they are the victims of their ex's and the courts.

is to run into a woman who is 8+ months pregnant and has a handgun, and he needs to get in her face and try to tell her that she doesn't deserve a preferred parking space. :evilgrin: (around here, if she shot such a person, it'd probably be considered legally justified, since the courts take a very dim view of endangering pregnant women.)

Here, at least, the one big mall has set aside some decent parking spaces for pregnant women, sponsored by the local birthing center, right next to the handicapped spaces. There's no penalty for people being schmucks and parking there when they're not pregnant, but people are pretty good about it, probably because some of the expectant mothers do indeed have handguns and CCW permits to carry them. My wife uses them often, and it makes a world of difference.

Try taking a 5 yr old, a 1 yr old and a newborn anywhere.. I had diaper bag, purse, twin stroller to unfold..all the while holding onto the 5 yr old.. Throw in about 2 feet of snow, and a slippery snowsuit on the 1 yr old, as he's arching his back and trying to wriggle free...By the time we got to the doors, I was worn out..

My husband travelled (Mon-Fri), and I had to do it all on my own mostly..

Ever grocery shop with a crew like mine?? It's not a pretty sight :)Usually someone would come along and help me, but sometimes, not ..

I have a brother 11 months older than me and a brother 11 months younger than me. My mum took all three of us with her all the time and I kid you not, she will tell you she NEVER had problems with us. I kid you not. Now the last kid - born 11 years after us - what a f***ing handful HE was. :o

My boys each wanted to go a different direction..

Just like Blanche DuBois.."I counted on the kindness of strangers"..often :)

I fell down an escalator at an airport one time, while I was carrying my then 8 month old.. This grandfatherly type felt so sorry for me with my umbroller stroller, flight bag, purse,diaper bag. that he took all of them, and gave me his bulkhead seat on the plane.. :)

I learned to never refuse help when offered.. I never asked, but I bet I looked pathetic enough to send out vibes :)

were infants. If 2 babies and a 2 yo isn't a physical handicap, I don't know what is. I wanted drive through grocery stores, hand them my list at one end and have them load the groceries at the other. Going to the grocery store alone was one of the great things about them getting older and the best was when they could drive and I sent them without going myself. Then they leave for college and I have to pump my own gas and do my own shopping. Sigh.

I like to grocery shop at 3 AM, so he always went with me.. When he went to college in Italy, I was devastated.. I had to go by myself...AND carry the stuff in the house :(

Now the store only stays open til 1 AM, so I have to shop early..

He's still the only night owl of the 3 boys..

That's just fucking pathetic, not to mention an abuse of the entire CCW idea :eyes:

.

:o

please reread what I wrote.

I'll bet nobody messes with your wife. Just how often does she use those handguns?

I'd give her the parking space without it. Really!

When she wasn't pregnant, we'd go to the range a couple of times a month for practice, just to "keep current".

We stopped once she got pregnant, since we haven't seen anything about possible side effects of subjecting a fetus to the noise levels inherent at shooting ranges. The little one will not go to a "hot" range until she's big enough to be able to use the required safety equipment properly. Safety first!!!

If, however, you define "use" as actually pulling the gun in a dangerous situation, we're looking at two situations in the past 10 years. One was an attempted strongarm robbery, and one was an attempted carjacking. She didn't shoot anybody either time, simply seeing the gun was enough to end the situation. I have no doubt that if it was necessary, she'd have shot them.

If you define "use" as when does she carry a gun, the answer is every goddamned day. You never need a gun until you need it really badly.

and lead dust affects nuerological development. You might want to re-think bringing the little one to a shooting range.

on the type of range, the air scrubbing equipment, et cetera.

give up his bus seat to a woman who was nine months pregnant with twins?

Yes, this happened. I also had the misfortune of witnessing a 90 year old woman who could barely walk being told that she had to stand by a middle aged woman who refused to move her bags off the one seat in the "please allow seniors and disabled people to sit here" section that was available. All the other seats there were occupied by disabled people, including me on crutches. I was seriously considering making a huge noise about offering her MY seat while looking straight at Ms Shameless. Fortunately, I was getting off in two stops.

Ever try standing on a bus with crutches?

I fully support parking spaces for pregnant women in addition to handicapped spaces. That guy's tilting at windmills. Usually places with expectant mom spaces are not taking up handicapped spaces. And we healthy people don't get enough excercise as it is.

My parking space for grocery shopping is in my driveway.

carrying a diaper bag, 2 year old, and assorted purchases all while having the grace and balance of an elephant on a high wire. :argh:

I have to take you at your word. :)
But where does one draw the line?

i know of several paranoid namvets with one limb and one eye who do quite well in bars.

Special parking spaces for the handicapped, disabled, preganat women and mothers with young children. Am ashamed to say that once I had my panties in a knot because of a lousy thing a person with disabled plates did in a parking lot. The lot was CHOCK FULL - as I drove down an aisle with a car with handicapped plates in front of me I saw that there were TWO spaces open ahead - the one on the left was a handicapped space and the one on the right just opposite it was a regular space. I rejoiced - "Hurray, finally a space! The car with the handicapped plate can pull into the special spot and I can pull into the regular spot!" To my indignation and anger, the car with the handicapped plate pulled into the REGULAR space leaving me with nothing! Fuming, I drove around the lot for another 15 minutes before finally getting a space. I am ashamed to say that I almost turned AGAINST the idea of special spots for the handicapped. But of course I realize that it is wrong to judge a whole group on the basis of the actions of a minority of assholes! Just had to get this incident off my chest.

handicapped..or have a handicapped person with them. My friend cares for her disabled brother, but when she is alone, she cannot use the space, even though her car has the plates.. The cops here ticket religiously.. $335.00 a pop..

and I have been yelled at because our tag on our vehicle is for disabled and I didn't pull into the disabled space. My disabled husband wasn't with me so I couldn't use the space. Didn't stop some clown from yelling at me about taking 'their" spaces.

Damn if you do and damn if you don't.

for explaining this. It did not occur to me until later that that may have been the case. In fact, I did not stick around to see whether anyone emerging from the car was handicapped or not as I was afraid I would not be civil in case somebody was. Will remember that in the future.

With MS, there sure are days when walking the extra distance is a struggle and painful, but i just won't use the handicap spaces. Mostly, it's because i always fear someone in a wheel chair van looking for a spot as i'm coming back out of the store. I'd feel guilty.

I'm ambivalent about this whole pregnant woman space issue. One can choose to be pregnant or not, but i for one, cannot choose to have MS or not.

I am, however, opposed to the "small children" spaces. I haven't seen them in Illinois, but this seems to have gone over the line. Taking away the closer spaces for people who can't handle their kids is an insult to those, like me, who could legally use the handicapped spaces and don't. I'm not ambivalent on this one. I'm completely opposed.
The Professor

Edited to clarify a sentence.

You'd have assumed that perhaps the guy in the car was more compassionate than you. Perhaps they were thinking that the next disabled person to come along may have been worse off than they were?

Admit it. you were just being a selfish little snot. Don't worry, I do it all the time.

i think it is silly wanting special parking. but what ever, lol

when you're pregnant.

You mean to tell me that Pregnant women can walk all over Wal-Mart for
an hour but can't walk 200 ft to the door when they get to the store?
Bullshit!

leaving the house? Something is very wrong.

subtle...funny....and no one appeared to appreciate it...

end of story.

some pregnant women are able to get temporary placards/plates and should if they need them. No woman should be able to park there unless a doctor says they need to - just being pregnant should not be the only reason.

Some women get so swollen and miserable that they really do need the closer spot.




This guy is an idiot though - he's arguing against it for all the wrong reasons.

I had severe life threatening health issues towards the end of my second pregnancy, and even though I looked just like any other healthy pregnant woman, walking was a huge issue for me. There were times when I had to go to doctor's appts/fill perscriptions, and I could not walk across a large parking lot in 95 degree weather. It would have killed me. I think in those instances, women should get special parking permits.

And I agree, the guy is an idiot.

She needs the spots, when she gets taken out to dinner, when her caregiver takes her to the pharmacy, etc.

I'd be very ticked if I found out that she had been forced to walk or park in a tight space, so a pregnant lady could park closer. It takes my grandmother 10 minutes just to get out of a damn car!

If they do this, I hope they at least make more handicapped spots available for truly disabled people.

my mother was in a wheelchair and it was hard enough finding parking for her. It pisses me off that people who have legs than they can use would take spots from those who are incapable of standing upright. :mad:

has been ordered by her doctor to stop teaching school because of being so pregnant (in a 7+ month sense). She should qualify as temporarily disabled, wouldn't you think? After all, if her doctor told her to stop working, she's certainly not "fit", is she?

Is your wife an amputee? Can she walk?

If you answered no to the 1st two questions and yes to the last, then she is not disabled and should not take the spaces meant for disabled people.

Simple.

that states only paralyzed people and amputees are eligible for handicapped parking.

You REALLY need to look at the criteria for handicapped decals before you go spouting off such complete and total tripe.

On edit: Here's what the Oregon DMV states:

http://www.odot.state.or.us/dmv/DriverLicensing/disabled.htm

Strange. Nothing there about being paralyzed or an amputee to get a decal...

the hash marks next to a HP space? Do you know what they are for?

I have been disabled for 17+ years. I KNOW what HP spaces are for. But it appears you don't know jack shit about them.

"Special parking privileges are available for individuals with disabilities. Those who are certified by an authorized health care specialist as having a permanent or temporary disability that limits or impairs their ability to walk are eligible for a Disabled Person Parking Permit."

http://www.odot.state.or.us/dmv/DriverLicensing/disabled.htm

Strange, the Oregon DMV seems to DIRECTLY contradict your position.

So you are saying that your wife can not walk? What exactly is wrong w/her legs? A little swelling doesn't cut it.

And no, the Oregon DMV DOES NOT contradict what I said. An impairment of the ability to walk, means just that. They can not walk!

as I've stated previously. That's why her doctor ORDERED her to stop working.

Impairment DOES NOT mean incapacity. It means it's impaired. According to Black's, the definition of "impaired" is "to weaken, to make worse, to lessen in power, diminish, or relax, or otherwise affect in an injurious manner. To diminish in quality, value, excellence, or strength."

Now, if DMV said "unable to walk", you'd be right, but that ain't what it says, bucko.

If so, what is stated as her disability?

If not, she can not park in a HP space. If she does in the state of Oregon, she will be fined $300.

but my wife didn't take it.

Read §801.235(3) of Oregon's code.

"(3) A person who has any other disability that prevents the person from walking without the use of an assistive device or that causes the person to be unable to walk more than 200 feet, including but not necessarily limited to:
(a) Chronic heart condition;
(b) Emphysema;
(c) Arthritis;
(d) Rheumatism; or
(e) Ulcerative colitis or related chronic bowel disorder."

As you can see, you do NOT have to be paralyzed or an amputee to qualify under Oregon law. And "not necessarily limited to" means that those 5 things are NOT an all-inclusive list. A broken leg would qualify, as would being in the "waddle" phase of pregnancy.

Disabled means more than not being able to walk. I can't believe you would pass judgment like this. Are you a doctor?

Frankly, I was healthy as a horse during my two, with the exception of the throwing-up part. I once hippity-hopped down a flight of stairs at work just to see the shock on a co-worker's face. (Gads, I wish I could still do that.) Toward the end, standing on a jolting bus got difficult, and I was grateful to the tiny granny who gave me her seat.

HOWEVER, my sister-in-law's two pregnancies have only been completed with the help of a couple of months' enforced bed-rest, and I've known a few other women who have also had a most-difficult time of it. They were truly disabled by their condition, even though it was thankfully not permanent.

The disabled-parking-space rules have provisions for temporary parking passes. Women who need to should use them. The rest of us can just wait for the passage of time to make us old and feeble.

Hekate
has spoken

She finally quit, because she felt sorry for her horse..having to carry the extra weight .. She had been jumping horses since she was 5, so the doctor had her sign a release, because he knew she would continue anyway..

Baby weighed 8 something..and she was jumping after a few weeks r&r..

WTF is it doing in this thread? ;)

it always torques me to the max when anyone talks about "women keeping their legs together" or not -- I agree.

Pregnancy is neither a disease nor a disability. If there are women who are having difficult pregnancies, they should get the handicapped stickers -- or more likely stay home would be the thing to do. Most pregnant women do just fine doing most of the things any of the rest of us do on a daily basis. Not sure I'd go parachute jumping and I'm not sure I'd feel all that comfortable playing tennis after 6, 7, or 8 months, but in general, healthy women with healthy pregnancies simply don't NEED a perk like that.

I also resent and worry about the "cult of pregnancy" thing, just as I did a number of years back with the "Baby on Board" decals people would put up in their cars -- as if THEIR baby(ies)' lives were any more precious than my life or any other on the road. It was all just so narcissistic and sick, IMO. I'm glad the fad faded. I will drive exactly the same way no matter WHO's on board in someone else's car or, for the most part, mine. Safe driving is safe driving and no one else's kid in someone else's car is going to change that. Sick, sick, sick.

IMO there are far too many handicapped parking spaces all around.

Most times not even half of them are full, and even then chances are good that the people parking in them arent even handicapped.

Damn if someone is really handicapped they probably wouldnt even be going out on thier own.

I would have no problem with allowing pregnant women and elderly to use handicapped parking spaces.

"Damn if someone is really handicapped they probably wouldnt even be going out on thier own."

Just what the fuck should we "really handicapped" do? Stay inside for the rest of our lives?

Get a fucking education! Judge D. Brooks Smith would adore you. Just stick those "really handicapped" people in a back room, or better yet, institutionalize them, right?

Please keep in mind, it only takes seconds to become disabled for life.

How in hell did you end up on a progressive board?

I have been pregnant and I am "really handicapped" and I say, screw the pregnant women and their special parking spaces. Those HP spaces are for people that need them in order to get their wheelchairs out of their vehicles.

Infuckingincredible!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

are only 4.

Do you think with an aging population there are more people with disabilty permits??

In OK, and I assume everywhere else, your doctor has to certify you need one, and then it must be approved by a state body. And then the authorization is mailed to you (here it's a plastic card that you hang on the rear view mirror).

supposed to go to the market, to the drugstore or to the doctor??? A lot of handicapped people are not capable of going out on their own, they have a caregiver that drives them. Even with a caregiver they need a special parking spot because they have to get the chair out and then they have to get into the chair. If you are ever incapacitated maybe then you will understand but for your sake I hope that you never have to because it isn't pleasant.

Many women have no mobility problems, right up to their delivery date. Others (like my first wife) had severe circulation and water retention problems, and had trouble walking in the final months of both of her pregnancies. Rather than a blanket rule, perhaps temporary handicapped placards can be used, like they already do for broken legs and other medical conditions.

Of course, many handicaps are not visible. I qualify for a permanent handicap placard because I have several herniated discs and cannot walk long distances. And I'm getting sick and tired of people questioning my use of the handicapped spaces. Usually I ask them if they have a medical degree, and why they think they're more knowledgable than my internist is about my condition.

If you have the placard then it's none of their fucking business!

Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of assholes here in Colorado...

I am no longer using a cane, and most of the time I don't limp, but I still have pain all the time. I can't run. Stairs are very hard. And it's very painful for me to stand up on a moving train.

I do look pregnant, but I have to explain myself at length to get a seat on the train and I'm very sick of it. This morning I was thinking of wearing a sign around my neck, "I'm pregnant and recovering from a broken pelvis. Let me sit down."

My OBGYN used to rant about them, because as he put it "It's good for pregnant women to walk." He was on a crusade to get rid of them, makes me wonder if the guy that wrote this piece IS my doctor. LOL

would metaphorically kick your OBGYN's ass over a blanket statement like that. Have you considered switching doctors? ;)

Pregnant women who need bed rest and need to limit their exercise can get temporary handicapped passes from their doctors. The vast majority of pregnant women, though, benefit greatly from exercise during pregnancy. I walked a mile a day during all three of my pregnancies, took Yoga classes, and swam at least twice a week. I was in the better shape when I was pregnant than I am now.

for people he hasn't seen, in cases with differing facts, he's an idiot.

If he gave my wife the instructions you intimate he would give (walking is categorically good for pregnant women) it would legally constitute malpractice.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1170667

and promptly got myself tarred as an "anti-preg-ite"!

To clarify, if establishments wish to designate pregnancy parking in addition to (and often adjacent to) the mandated disabled parking spots, they are free to do so, and I have no complaints. Indeed more and more shopping centers across the country are doing exactly that, on their own, without help from Assemblyman Strickland. What I object to is that Strickland's bill would strip spaces from people with disabilities and reassign them to pregnant women.

To clarify further, the author of the above piece (John Phillips, not SoCal, duh) is a misogynistic troglodyte who should immediately crawl back under his rock before the Orkin man comes by. Agreeing with Phillips on this leaves me feeling slimy and unwholesome, like when I realized I agreed with Pat Buchanan about the Iraq war.

Edit: emphasis, shopping centers adding parking

>and promptly got myself tarred as an "anti-preg-ite"!<

I'm with you, KamaAina, so I guess I'm an "anti-preg-ite" as well.

I'd rather see parking spaces above and beyond the mandated disabled spaces for senior citizens.

I avoid shopping at any store that offers special parking places for pregnant women. If the pregnancy is that high-risk, how on earth can the woman in question spend an hour or so walking the store?

IMHO.

Julie

"if a person is handicapped enough to need a handicapped placard, what business do they have walking around in a store?"

Cuts both ways, doesn't it?

Senior citizens don't automatically get to use the handicapped spaces if they're not handicapped. If they can fucking play golf, they can park with the rest of us.

The majority of handicapped people CAN NOT WALK AT ALL! :grr:

You're in Oregon. Here's the link to Oregon's DMV, and their statement on WHO exactly is eligible for disabled parking privileges.

http://www.odot.state.or.us/dmv/DriverLicensing/disabled.htm

Anyone that thinks it is fine and dandy to take a HP space away from a disabled person, is no friend of mine.

I read your link and no where does it say that pregnant women are disabled or can use a HP space meant for the disabled.

That's OK. I cry about it a lot, but it's OK. The link states that in order to qualify for a handicapped decal, a person needs to have their ability to walk impaired, and a note from a doctor. If a doctor writes a note saying that a woman's ability to walk has been impaired (not that she can't walk, but that she has trouble walking) that is enough to satisfy the code.

You seem to think only paralyzed people and amputees qualify. Please give some RATIONAL legal explanation for this belief, and provide cites. That's going to be hard to do, given the inclusion of the word "limits".

are created for handicapped people. In the state of Oregon, they are not created for pregnant women.

If a pregnant woman is so disabled that she can not walk, she should not be driving due to impairment.

the state could justify denying people who have handicapped placards for other reasons the right to drive. After all, they, by DEFINITION, are physically impaired, right? Damn, that shoe sure does pinch on the other foot, doesn't it? Are you SURE you want to go down that road?

since my feet are paralyzed.

You still have not answered me. What disablity did your wife's doctor give for the handicapped placard?

It is true that HP placards are given for other reasons. But being pregnant is not one of them.

the fact that she has difficulty walking any kind of distance would probably be the most likely one. The fact that her joints have loosened considerably as her body gets ready to give birth would be another one.

My wife isn't at 3 weeks of pregnancy. She's in the mid '30s. She's having serious medical problems because of the pregnancy, to the point that they're making her go into the OBGYN's 4 times a week, her BP gets taken 5 times a day and reported daily, and the OBGYN is getting ready to induce labor prematurely for both her and the "baby to be's" safety.

I've seen people with gout who had less swelling in their feet than my wife has. If you put even a little bit of pressure on her feet, it leaves an indentation that remains when you remove your finger. She needs help turning over in bed, and I have to help her in the lavatory.

You'd be setting a VERY dangerous precedent with your "if she's that pregnant, she's too impaired to drive" thing. Is that a precedent you would really like to have set? Because my wife's pregnancy will be over, no matter what, in two months. If she can't drive because she's physically impaired, it'd be a pain in the ass, but not something that would make her life harder long-term. Your impairment, on the other hand, isn't likely to get better. If people who have physical impairments are deemed to be too impaired to be allowed to drive, the effects on you would be much more severe.

That still does not make her disabled.

She's having a highly complicated pregnancy. If this was a normal pregnancy, she'd still be working, her blood pressure wouldn't be (in the words of her OBGYN) "Incompatable with human life", she wouldn't be on the meds she's on (including Darvocet, which should tell you JUST how severe the situation is).

I went through much the same thing with both my pregnancies, and was hospitalized for the last month during one, so I can sympathize!

Hope everything works out swimmingly. :toast:

:)

I have an hcap permit, and I can walk. Most of the time it is extremely painful and exhausting to do so, but I can walk.

The HP spaces are created w/hash marks to the side of them, so that a wheeler can either remove his/her chair from the vehicle, or put down their lift.

What is your disability?

Is that why you are asking about my medical conditions? If you're not a doctor, why is it your business?

My doctors and the State of California agree that my medical conditions necessitate that I have a disabled parking permit.

Not every disabled person is in a wheelchair. I'm getting particularly sick of that stereotype.

She's had both knees replaced, but she's not paralyzed, and isn't an amputee. I would qualify for disabled tags, and am covered by the ADA, but I don't like to make a big deal out of it. I also am not an amputee or paralyzed.

You've got issues.

>"if a person is handicapped enough to need a handicapped placard, what business do they have walking around in a store?"<

A large percentage of those with handicapped placards are in wheelchairs. Obviously, they're not walking. There is also a percentage of those using the placards that also use a motorized scooter to get around the store.

>Cuts both ways, doesn't it?<

No, it does not.

>Senior citizens don't automatically get to use the handicapped spaces if they're not handicapped. If they can fucking play golf, they can park with the rest of us.<

Considering the fact that many seniors don't "fucking play golf," this argument doesn't hold water, either. Those that are blessed with good health most likely don't mind the walk.

Again: If the pregnancy is that high-risk, it's also a liability for any store the pregnant woman goes to in the first place.

Julie

hypocritical.

"If the pregnancy is that high-risk, it's also a liability for any store the pregnant woman goes to in the first place."

So, what are you suggesting? That the stores discriminate against pregnant women because they're pregnant? I hate to tell you this, but the store's liability would be IDENTICAL if it's a pregnant woman or somebody with a handicap. How would you feel if the stores started discriminating against people with handicaps? Oh, wait, that's already illegal. So why would discriminating against a part of the female population be acceptable? Oh, wait, it's not, because of the SAME EXACT LAW that prohibits discrimination against the handicapped. Remember, men don't get pregnant, so it'd be gender based discrimination.

For a "progressive" board, there are an AWFUL lot of people advocating gender-based discrimination on it...

>hypocritical.<

I don't think so.

I wrote: >"If the pregnancy is that high-risk, it's also a liability for any store the pregnant woman goes to in the first place."<

You wrote: >So, what are you suggesting? That the stores discriminate against pregnant women because they're pregnant? I hate to tell you this, but the store's liability would be IDENTICAL if it's a pregnant woman or somebody with a handicap.<

No, it would not.

Those with an existing disability know how to deal with that disability. Most larger stores and public venues have also made arrangements to assist those with disabilities to safely navigate within the venue, such as electronic scooters with baskets on the front for those in grocery stores. I am thankful for these arrangements. My mother was disabled and used a wheelchair for the last ten years of her life.

I also used to work with perinatal nurses. As a matter of fact, it was my job to triage their telephone calls. One of the perinatal nurses is a friend of 15 years, and has worked in the field for over 25. Most women who have high-risk pregnancies have the common sense to follow the instructions of their doctors and not risk themselves and their unborn babies. There are many, though, that do not. Even though these issues came long before HIPAA, I will sum up my experience by saying that I can relate hundreds of incidents involving the "bad apples" in that practice that risked their safety, the safety of their unborn baby, and the safety of everyone around them by insisting that they didn't have to make any changes whatsoever to their daily routine, and everyone else could just adjust.

After my health care experience, we were on a cruise three years ago during which an entire ship full of passengers got to enjoy the effects of a 7+ months' pregnant woman that decided to ignore both doctor's orders and the recommendations of the cruise line and cruise anyway.

Why should any store (or any other venue,) bear the liability risk of those who don't listen or obey doctor's orders?

>Remember, men don't get pregnant, so it'd be gender based discrimination.<

No, it's common sense. If one is in such a condition that one requires almost daily visits to the doctor and constant monitoring, perhaps one should hand off the shopping and other errands to a spouse or a trusted friend.

>For a "progressive" board, there are an AWFUL lot of people advocating gender-based discrimination on it...<

I hope that this was not meant as a personal attack.

Julie

out of how many hundreds of thousands or millions of births each year?

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water...

Your "expertise" is in medical triage. My "expertise" is in the law. I'm a J.D., not a M.D.. Would you care to explain to me how the liability risk to a store would be one iota different than the liability risk to the same store for a handicapped person being there? I'd LOVE to hear your legal theory on how there would be even a scintilla of difference.

"No, it's common sense. If one is in such a condition that one requires almost daily visits to the doctor and constant monitoring, perhaps one should hand off the shopping and other errands to a spouse or a trusted friend."

Couldn't the same identical argument apply to handicapped people?

>Your "expertise" is in medical triage. My "expertise" is in the law. I'm a J.D., not a M.D.. Would you care to explain to me how the liability risk to a store would be one iota different than the liability risk to the same store for a handicapped person being there? I'd LOVE to hear your legal theory on how there would be even a scintilla of difference.<

Okay, DoNotRefill, I'm done.

You win.

Julie

I'd understand the special hanging handicapped tags for women with problem pregnancies, but I'm child free. These spaces annoy me.

I even belong to a child free Web site to share opinions with others like me who are perfectly happy with pets and lovers, but no kids.

Children in general annoy me, but that's another story.

FSC

:headbang:
rocknation

He is angry because he wants what we have, the ability to have children. Or maybe he knew what kind of reaction he would get and is just looking for attention. Who knows or cares? Just another asshole man looking to jerk the chains of women.

Not sure what you mean? He would appear to be anti-female and kid. I didn't read anything in the article that would constitute an anti-disabled viewpoint.

it wasn't an anti-disabled article?

It burns my paralyzed buns to hear pregnant women needing a parking space that is meant for the disabled.

Hell, do you know how many times I've seen people ABUSE the prescription drop-off parking spots at the grocer's Pharmacy section?!

Keep handicapped spots for the handicapped. Make a preggers-only parking spot and have them see the doc once a month to make sure they still QUALIFY for the spot.

Worst of all, if these women need to park in a handicapped zone, shouldn't they just stay home and off their feet until it's time for Junior to be delivered?! I know our society finds new ways to exploit and speed up workers, but things are out of control if expecting mothers have to have special rights in order to continue work because the anti-life repuke CEO demands the woman continues working.

This whole issue is a symptom of a far bigger problem.

pregnancy isn't a disability, it's a condition.

Besides, once they're in the store, they still have to walk, so what's the issue here? Parking closer when you still have to walk around the store or mall when you don't have a handicap or disability is laziness or an overbearing sense of entitlement.

I'm not saying I advocate pregnant parking for everyone, and I agree that able bodied people who want to take advantage of disabled parking are lazy gits, but what you said just rubs me raw. Pregnancy is not a disability, but it is a condition that can be debilitating for many. I could not walk across a parking lot in 95 degree heat without fainting and possibly dying, but 5 minutes in the grocery store was fine. Please don't look at all pregnant women as lazy or feeling entitled. The last month in particular is a doozy.

and spent the large months in hot humid St. Louis summer.

pregnancy just exactly the way you did?

that's your argument, not mine. I never said anything close to that.

It's harder to get around when your in the third trimester. It's just a fact. Some women have a harder time than others. I think that you cannot equate having to walk in from the parking lot, in perhaps bad weather and/or heat, to walking around the mall, where you can sit periodically and there is no weather. Why begrudge an expectant mom the small comfort of being able to park close to the door? Besides, if men could become pregnant, they would be demanding that they not only be allowed to park close to the door, but that those little motorized wheelchairs be made available to them so they didn't have to walk around inside at all.

There are lots of pregnant women who are feeling a lot better than some of those who have to do the whole parking lot. Frankly, if a pregnant woman is in such condition that she can't cross a parking lot, she's in a state where she should not be driving around alone. I'm a woman and have been pregnant twice and for the last month of the second pregnancy my son was sitting on my sciatic nerve and I could barely walk, so believe me, I see both sides. Overall, though, bad weather and things are more dangerous for elderly people who tend to move slowly and can be pretty frail but don't automatically get a spot.

This is a non-issue. So what if very pregnant women get to park close? I say being the bearers of children makes it okay to give us a few extra perks in this world. And parking near the door is hardly a big deal, except to some yahoo with a chip on his shoulder and a loathing for women and children.

I don't know about the people trying to make this legally mandated, but the malls that do this might very well see it as a good marketing strategy.

Pregnant women are pretty much out of necessity major consumers of lots of products--baby stuff, drugstore stuff, clothing, toys, furniture, etc. etc. Not a bad group to try to lure into your store and establish brand loyalty with.

then why not allow a pregnant woman to have one for a month or two. What is the big deal folks. It isn't like it is a permanent situation.

I have heard this argument here in California for the past couple of months. Ridiculous.

they would be taking spaces from people that truly need them.

truly needs to be able to get a good parking space if she goes out.

She has pregnancy induced high blood pressure, her feet swell, she has really painful pregnancy-related carpal tunnel, et cetera.

If she can't get a decent parking space, she can't go out. She NEEDS to go out, if for no other reason than to preserve her sanity.

Or would you rather she risk losing the baby because she walked too much?

Happy mothers make happy babies.

Get it?

read the fucking link!

http://www.odot.state.or.us/dmv/DriverLicensing/disabled.htm

It says NOTHING, NOT ONE SINGLE FUCKING THING, about having to be paralyzed or an amputee in order to qualify.

who does not get it. There are serious, life threatening and debilitating conditions that can happen in pregnancy. Just because those result from pregnancy doesn't make them any less serious. When it comes to this subject, it is obvious that you don't know what you're talking about.

Not every pregnant woman is disabled, but she has many related conditions that make her temporarily disabled. So do I, being pregnant while I'm still recovering from a broken pelvis. I don't drive, but I do ask for priority seating on the subway if a healthy young person is sitting there.

women who are expecting should generally be in the best shape they can be- the body tries it's best to make sure of it- and lots of women fight it all the way- thinking that they are frail and fragile, and need to rest, rest, rest....
if they want to designate special parking spots for preggos, they should be in the farthest reaches of the lot, to ensure that the mommies-to-be are getting at least some exercise.

That is ridiculous. I'm sorry.

Just because something is natural does not mean it feels great. It also does not mean that all women experience pregnancy the same way. There are those lucky few that feel great throughout their whole pregnancy. But, not all of us are so fortunate. There is nothing prima donna about nearly fainting walking across an uphill parking lot in 95 degree weather with nearly 100% humidity.

...or lift more than 20 pounds. And I defiantly can't carry 20 pounds for 10 blocks...only for a few yards. It's true my pregnancy is complicated by my recovery from multiple fractures in my pelvis and other parts of my body, but many pregnancies are complicated by many things.

It's true, when I first got pregnant, I had a healing spurt. The body does work harder to be healthy when you're pregnant, and many women will not have issues with walking far, but many will.

I think that women should listen to their bodies, and listen to their doctors, and should be free to participate in benefits set aside for the disabled if they are temporarily disabled.

The disabled spots should be for truly disabled people. There's many more pregnant women than disabled people, so they'd take all of the spots and then the poor guy in a wheelchair would have to park a mile away. Not fair at all.

End the tyranny of the profligate! Breeders already get tax breaks in a society that villifies the child-free for being responsible. Enough!

Stop prompting the crowding of an overburdened globe. Every new child that comes out of an American birth ward represents two metric tons of landfill refuse per year and uses a bigger slice of the world's limited resources than a child from any other nation.

The bottom line is that pregnancy is a CHOICE. Isn't that what being "Pro-Choice" means, after all? Most people with disabilities don't choose them.

That way, when we all get old, we have no one to take care of us. Whee!!!!

>That way, when we all get old, we have no one to take care of us. Whee!!!!<

Retirement and "convalescent" homes are full of seniors whose children don't even visit, let alone "take care" of them.

Julie

Not spefically. I mean when we ALL get old, regardless of whether or not we have children. If the majority of people stopped having children today, we'd have problems down the road.

Just because you have kids doesn't mean anything.

My mom is a fucked up control freak. She had 2 of us. We've both written her off. She STILL won't have anyone to take care of her when she gets old.

If that's the only reason you're having kids, then that's really sad.

What do you think would happen if there is no one around when the population grows old. Who will staff the hospitals? Who will work to contribute to social security for us? If you think that people could stop or greatly reduce having kids without consequences, then you're naive.

And it is none of your damn business why I chose to have kids. What an insulting thing to say to me. I'm sorry your mom was a control freak, but is it really necessary to project that on anyone who didn't make the same choices you did?

I don't give a shit about having people around when I get old. In the absence of a nuclear bomb, there will still be people. No worries there.

No it isn't any of my business why you chose to have kids. As long as you don't sit next to me in a restaurant and let them scream in my ear, I don't care.

My point was to ANYONE, not just you:

Have kids because you want to raise decent human beings and watch a child grow up. Don't do it to have a nursemaid(s) when you get old. You may be sorely disappointed. That's why it's a stupid assumption that your kids will automatically take care of you. You or anyone else.

It was very insulting, and insinutated that all people who had children were just selfish breeders. And your post came across as directed at me.

I don't let my children scream in people's ear. Another nice generalization, there.

about the planet's resources, why are you on the computer right now?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I've been in all four conditions (though I don't have a handicapped plate or sticker to deal with my intermittent walking problems at present) and I think that all: handicapped, elderly, pregnant women, mothers with small children in tow, deserve close-by parking places. There's nothing wrong with other people having them too, especially for quick stops.

Maybe superstores and malls just need to stop building gigantic parking lots. Maybe they ought to offer valet parking (even better than handicapped spots, at least here in Vegas where valet parking only costs a buck or two for a tip). Maybe WE should stop making so many trips to stores, and/or carpool with a friend when we do. (It's one way to cope with rising gas prices as well.) Or, maybe some enterprising store could provide those riding carts out on the far edge of the parking lot. What a great way to build customer appreciation!

Lately, I've discovered another approach, though. Laugh if you wish, but I've been doing affirmations. When I approach the crowded WalMart lot, I just keep saying "I'm GOING to find a good parking place." And you know what, it's worked every time so far. Sometimes I have to drive around a bit to find one, but usually not, and it sure beats that long, burdensome trek in from the far reaches.

and the outrageous "anger" of the obviously nutso man.. I never envisioned 100+ replies..(most of them angry)..

I really don't care where I park, unless it's raining.. But then if it's raining, I usually stay home.. There are FEW things that I need badly enough to go out in the rain...:)

I LOVE the valet parking angle :)I would gladly pay for that service..

Back east, some of the grocery stores would not allow you to take the carts into the lot.. They gave you a "claim check" and then you drove to the side, and they had people who loaded your groceries into your car.. That was great.. The only bad thing?? They would not go home with me and UNLOAD them...bastards !!!:)

that taking away HP from handicapped people would cause some anger? Have you any idea how long and hard the disabled activists (myself included) worked to get the wee bit of accessiblity we have today?

Yet it is amusing to you that anyone might get upset if pregnant women (by their own choice) are awarded our hard fought spaces simply because they whine and waddle?

When I was pregnant, I passed a kidney stone at 5 1/2 months, wore a holter monitor for a heart defect which could not be treated until after I quit breast feeding and in the last three months of my pregnancy endured colitus, which again could not be treated while I was pregnant, YET not in my most selfish dreams would I dare think I was entitled to use a HP space.

SoCalDem, you just plumb did not think.

regarding handicapped spaces.. I support them fully..and the people who need them...

I did not write this article, and I heartily disagree with him.. The amusing part to me is that the "nonsense argument" that he presented stirred so much debate on a subject that's a no-brainer for me..
:eyes:

I didn't choose to kidney failure and arthritis. It won't be over in nine months, and I won't be getting a tax break, either.

If a pregnant woman isn't able to walk, she should apply for a handicapped parking permit, just like anyone else.

"customers with children"! Fuck that! What is this Nazi Germany, where we reward people for breeding. Just because someone made the decision to saddle themsleves with a greedy, crying little rugrat should not give them preferential treatment in parking. I park in them anyways-- fuck 'em.

is absolutely disgusting and indefensible.

The left is obviously becoming way too much like the right.

is absolutely disgusting and indefensible.

The left is obviously becoming way too much like the right.

Hmmmmm?

Perhaps you feel this way because you perceive the number of handicapped parking spaces to be too few. If so, that's a valid concern. Everywhere I go there are plenty.

However, simply sharing resources is not hostility. Saying that since you're handicapped you shouldn't be out of the house or going shopping -- now that would be hostility. But it's not the pro-'preggo' lobby that is peddling that line, is it?

arguing that one group with a medical infirmity should be given preferential treatment over another group with a medical infirmity...

But, if your wife is so ill as to be disabled, why would you let her endanger her life and the life of your soon-to-be born baby by running around doing errands?

Don't you love her?

well, OK, maybe it would be for you, but not for me. And f*ck you very much for questioning if I love my wife.

I'm not the person agreeing with the Freepers (like the misogynist who wrote the article) on this...YOU are.

so you accuse me of agreeing w/freepers. :eyes:

Please read this carefully...

I am disabled. I have been for over 17 years. For a good part of the 1st four years, I was an activist for disabled rights. One of those rights was for parking spaces designed so that wheelchair users would have space to remove their wheelchairs from their vehicles or put down their lifts. We also pushed for legislation for fines for anyone that abused those spaces.

We did get some spaces, but there is no recognized body that will enforce that law. IOW, it is up to us, the disabled, to enforce it.

It isn't about being closer to the door. Although that is important as well, since it is difficult for drivers to see us wheeling across a parking lot. It's called safety.

Now someone comes along and wants those spaces to be shared w/pregnant women. I MUST have the space, or I can not get out of my vehicle AT ALL! A pregnant woman that is well enough to walk about an establishment DOES NOT NEED the space, as she can get out of her vehicle w/o mobility tools.

This is not a freeper arguement. It is a disabled vs pregnant women arguement.

The argument isn't ALL pregnant women, at least I do not think that is what most are arguing about in this thread. We're saying that some pregnant women do need the spaces because they are temporarily disabled. It isn't common. Most pregant women don't need them. But to dismiss the problems that some pregnant women have sounds very hostile. You wouldn't like it if someone told you you shouldn't go out of the house because of your disability? There are some conditions that don't make a woman bedridden, but can actually threaten her life. I was one of them, and DNR's wife sounds a lot like the way I was. I had another child to take care of, so being bedridden wasn't an option.

"But, if your wife is so ill as to be disabled, why would you let her endanger her life and the life of your soon-to-be born baby by running around doing errands?"

YOU said this piece of tripe. And I have to ask you yet again (so you can duck the issue yet again) WHY this argument can not be used against ALL disabled people? If it was, you'd be justifiably pissed, which makes me wonder why the hell you'd use it against a group of people who are also mobility restricted. Do you use a powered chair? How would you feel if somebody started pushing to dispose of handicapped privileges for people who used powered chairs, arguing that they can park out in the crappy spaces that are always empty, since the powered chair is what does the work, not the person? You'd be HIGHLY irate. And rightfully so. So why are you pushing the same crap, just with a different class of the mobility restricted? It sounds like you simply don't give a crap about the rest of the mobility restricted, just yourself.

In case you haven't picked up on it, I legally qualify as disabled, too. My physicians/surgeons have offered to get me permanent handicapped tags, and due to the nature of my disability, there's ZERO doubt about it's legitimacy. I was BORN with my disability, so we're looking at my having been disabled for 37 years, not 17. So let's not play "I'm disabled and you're not, so you don't know what I've gone through", because that's bullshit. Some days I'm OK(these are few and far between), some days I need a brace, some days I need a wheelchair, and some days I just can't move, period. I still managed to get my ass through law school, without special help or accomodations. And I still think that women who are having medically debilitating pregnancies should have the ability to get handicapped decals for the duration of their term.

Pleanty towards those who have kids, however.

I have to remind myself of that sometimes, or I wouldn't be able to stand it.

It's perfectly okay to bash people around here, call us breeders and say we're irresponsible to choose to have kids, and when we defend ourselves and our choices, we get told we're stupid. Some people need to stick to their child free discussion boards if they can't stand being around us "breeders".

...it would be a mere fraction of the daily condescension and alienation the child-free receive from those on the other side of the argument.

I was child free by choice for most of my adult life. I never thought I'd have kids. I simply never was condescended to in such a manor. It could be because I never went around bitching and complaining about other peoples kids, or referred to them as breeders. Just a guess, though.

I don't think I've seen even ONE post from a parent disparaging or condescending to the childless.

Would you care to please cite an example?

Exercise (in moderation) is good for pregnant women. What EVER did pregnant women do BEFORE stork parking?

And no I'm not anti-mother or anti-child....someone mentioned the "cult of pregnancy" earlier, though, and this (IMO) seems to be part of it....if it's a difficult pregnancy, get a temporary disability permit from your doctor.

Should they get 'inclement weather' passes?

if you aren't paralyzed or an amputee, you're not disabled, and should just "suck it up" regardless of how restricted your mobility is or how much pain the extra walk will mean for you.

are crying "Hostility towards the disabled". Ironic, isn't it?

Wanting to take away one of the few rights the disabled have is selfish!

taking away anyones "rights".

Do they have to be EXCLUSIVE to count?

There is such wide spread abuse of temporary HP placards now, it's pathetic.

I wish everyone on this thread that thinks it's fine and dandy to take away spaces from the truly disabled, would have to, for just one month, use a wheelchair every - single- place you go.

To...

Work
A resturant
Church
A movie
A sporting event
A bank
A post office
A library
A government building
A shopping mall

Then come back here and tell me how easy it was for you to find a parking space.

Then why not just say that? Your hostility towards pregnant women who are temporarily not the way they normally are makes no sense to me. I can understand the position of parking spots only for permanantly disabled people, even if I don't agree with it.

you support removing the disabled tags from the "walking disabled", the folks who have had hip replacements, or rheumatism, or severe arthritis, et cetera?

That's how you're coming across...."If you ain't in a wheelchair 24/7, your disability is for shit." Thanks, but no thanks.

with a special little sign that says, 'stupid parking only', with a little stick figure of a stupid person. only one space though, that way, the stupid would all pull into it no matter if it was already occupied or not, creating entertainment in our nation's parking lots.

the stupid need to shop too, and sometimes they need a special place to park because they might park in a handicapped spot, cause they are only going in for a pack of smokes and then they'll be right out.

if all these pushy handicapped people have to have a special damn place to park their go carts, the stupid should have designated spots too damnit. this is still america ain't it?

don't they have people who love them and who can go and run their errands for them? (sarcastically parroting another post on this thread, one I vehemently disagree with.)

for his seat. If he did this, it was to get her some coattails.

He's as RW, narrowminded, thickheaded and reactionary as they come.

If a Dem proposed this bill he'd be among the first to rant against it and "libruls" and the so-called "touchy-feely, if-it-feels-good-do-it" culture.

That writer is awful, BTW.