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MsUnderstood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 11:19 AM
Original message
need information please
What are the names and ranks of the 7 soldiers being court martialed for the Iraq prison scandal in Abu Ghraib?

Thanks for your help.
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funkybutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. here ya go
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5006372/

scroll down..there is a list with breif biographies.
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MsUnderstood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Okay more help needed
I'm writing an article for the local paper (where I keep seeing letters to the editor with protests of stop talking about it, and they deserved it anlong with don't dis the war it hurts the moral).

My rebuttal is basically that the moral of the soldiers in Iraq depends on 2 things: acknowledgement of their death upon return to the united states and the pursection of not only these individuals but all the way up to the top level so that the soldiers know they will not be scape goated for the atrocities they commit--in other words that the understand they are not alone.

I've got the casket part down, now I need help with part 2 (atrocities in Iraq).

Anyway, I'm kinda stuck. I remember an article here about military philosophy but can't find it. It is a tricky arguement to make that the soldiers want to see the truth since we are bombarded with the opposite in the media.

Anyone remember that article or can give me a link about military philosophy and responsibility of all?
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. firstly, you can say
Firstly, you can say that low-ranking soldiers would rather see the higher-ups punished than their peers. That would be a natural instinct.

Also, spelling advice:
moral - morale (in that context)

pursection - persecution


scape goated - scapegoated
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MsUnderstood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Good Suggestions!
And I really to promise to spell check the article before throwing it out for mass consumption.

But since you brought it up--court martialed, is that correct?
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Guess they felt like they needed to quiet this..
When it started at Camp Bucca and the other reservists who were charged and took "other-than-honorable" discharges in November since they have those pix...


Girman tells her story on national TV

05/13/2004

The Hanover Township-based 320th Military Police Battalion once again made national news Wednesday, as two former reservists from the unit appeared on a "60 Minutes II" segment hosted by CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Master Sgt. Lisa Girman, of Pittston, and Spc. Tim Canjar, of Madison Township, both of whom were discharged from the military amid charges of prisoner abuse, spoke to Rather about the conditions at Camp Bucca.
Camp Bucca is where the 320th was on military police duty before being transferred to the Abu Ghraib prison, where prisoner abuse was documented by hundreds of graphic pictures.

The recently released pictures have put an ugly national and international spotlight on the 320th for several weeks.
Since she was discharged and permitted to speak with the media, Girman has cited an "incompetent" chain of command for horrible conditions at Camp Bucca and even thinks it contributed to the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib

"It's a charge echoed by these two," Rather said, introducing Girman and Canjar.
Rather questioned Girman on abuse allegations, in which she was never convicted, but ultimately led to her dismissal from the military with an other-than-honorable discharge.
-snip-
entire story--
http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11640762&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=8
---------------------------------------------------------

05/12/2004

Detainees at a U.S. military detention camp in Iraq operated by a local Army Reserve unit were sexually humiliated and brutally beaten months before similar abuses happened at Abu Ghraib prison, a former detainee said Tuesday.
-snip-

Shaltout said he is a permanent U.S. resident. He has not been allowed to return to the United States because officials confiscated his green card, he said.
Shaltout has filed a claim with the U.S. Army Claims Service, seeking $350,000 in damages for "torture and other mistreatment" he endured while being held as a prisoner of war for 31 days between mid-April and mid-May of 2003.
Shaltout said he went to Iraq in January 2003 as a member of a peace organization called Rights and Freedom International. The organization tried to convince Iraqi leaders to step down to avoid war with the United States.
-snip-

"What those soldiers did was wrong," Canjar said of the abuses at Abu Ghraib. "If they did it, they should own up to it and face their punishment. On the other turn, the officers should be getting at least half of what these soldiers are getting.

"Where were they? They were running that camp."
entire story-
http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11630957&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=8
-----------------------------------------------------
03/17/2004

-snip-

One of the four, former Sgt. Shawna Edmondson of South Abington Township, opted out of the service, taking an "other-than-honorable" discharge in November, rather than face a court-martial.

The other three -- Lisa Girman of Pittston, Scott McKenzie of Clearfield and Timothy Canjar of Madison Township -- ultimately were found guilty in a nonjudicial hearing in December. All three were fined and discharged.

-snip-
entire story-
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11186522&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=8
----------

At Camp Bucca, the 320th primarily guarded prisoners of war, a tough assignment compounded by charges of abuse by four fellow MPs.

One of the four, former Sgt. Shawna Edmondson of South Abington Township, opted out of the service, taking an "other-than-honorable" discharge in November, rather than face a court-martial.

The other three -- Lisa Girman of Pittston, Scott McKenzie of Clearfield and Timothy Canjar of Madison Township -- ultimately were found guilty in a nonjudicial hearing in December. All three were fined and discharged.
-snip-
entire story-
http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11462575&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=8

-----------------------

05/10/2004

Last year, four Army Reservists from the Hanover Township-based 320th Military Police Battalion began speaking out about problems arising from ineffective leadership and ill-prepared troops guarding enemy prisoners of war in Camp Bucca, Iraq.
But until now, nobody was listening to them.
Those four MPs - Lisa Girman of Pittston, Timothy Canjar of Madison Township, Scott McKenzie of Chesterfield and Shawna Edmondson of South Abington Township - were charged with kicking and beating Iraqi detainees during an enemy transport mission on May 12, 2003.
The accused soldiers have maintained their innocence, insisting they did not use excessive force. They contend they were punished because they had been speaking out about disorganized and dangerous conditions at the camp, including a lax chain of command and improperly-trained soldiers.
All four took demotions and discharges rather than face court martial in a secretive, military judicial system that, according to Girman, didn't want to hear the facts and became hell-bent on forcing them out.

entire story-
http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11617332&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=8
------------------------------
Soldiers Tell Their Side
Thursday, January 15, 2004

Three soldiers from the 320th military Police Battalion out of Ashley are home from their ordeal now. They still claim they`re innocent and want to clear their names. They came to us because they want you to hear their story.
Lisa Girman, Scott MacKenzie and Tim Canjar are very firm about their facts concerning what happened in the Iraqi POW camp where they were accused of assaulting prisoners. All three say girman was probably the target of higher ups who allowed a violent prisoner, notorious for attacking m-p`s, free reign of the camp. Girman says she confronted the major from her unit who condoned it, "I said, sir, you know who the guy is. You know who he is. Why would you have him in our living area? He said, Sgt. Girman, I don`t care. You tell your soldiers I don`t care. I said the battalion commander said he`s not allowed in our living area. He ignored that order and the next day, we caught him out by the showers while one of my female troops was out at the shower area. And then what happened is I made a complaint with the I.G.`s office." I.G. stands for inspector general...in charge of investigating internal military affairs.

entire story-
http://216.87.159.41/news/default.asp?mode=shownews&id=3464
------------------
-snip-



One of four U.S. Army reservists accused of using excessive force against Iraqi prisoners of war, Ms. Edmondson, 24, returned to her South Abington home on Friday, a One of four U.S. Army reservists accused of using excessive force against Iraqi prisoners of war, Ms. Edmondson, 24, returned to her South Abington home on Friday, a few weeks after choosing an other-than-honorable discharge over court-martial proceedings.
-snip-
Three other reservists from the 320th Military Police Battalion based in Ashley will face courts-martial in January. All three, Sgt. Lisa Girman, 35, of Pittston; Spc. Tim Canjar, 21, of Madison Township; and Staff Sgt. Scott McKenzie, 37, of Chesterfield, refused to enter pleas.
-snip-
"It may not have been right or wrong, but I followed orders."
-snip-

entire story-
http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10566430&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=8
11/25/2003
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