Sadr, a defiant ‘Robin Hood’

Sadr, a defiant ‘Robin Hood’
Iraqi Shiite cleric turns into cult hero for anti-US stance, helping the poor.
By Sam Dagher - NAJAF, Iraq

For many of his followers, radical Iraqi Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr has taken on the persona of a Robin Hood or a David fighting Goliath as he defiantly stands up to the US-led coalition.

Posters of the plump and bearded 30-something cleric are big sellers on the dusty streets of this holy city, where Sadr and hundreds of his mainly young followers, the so- called Mehdi Army, have been holed up since early April.

His stern round face is plastered on store fronts, lamp posts and even on the walls of the city's Imam Ali mausoleum, one of the most sacred shrines for Shiite Muslims.

He is portrayed in the company of revered religious figures like Imam Ali and his son Hussein, or Imam Mehdi, the last of the 12 Shiite Imams who some expect to return to save the world.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

--snip--

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=10014

Just ask him his stance on gay rights, women's rights, religious tolerance, non violence, then let's see you try to lionize this asshole.

This typical lefty claptrap makes me embarrassed to post on DU.

Then rethink posting this sort of nonsense.

view Sadr in a "robin hood" light-- a sort of cult hero symbolizing resistance against the invaders. Are you disputing that many Iraqis view him in this light? Or are you just pissed off that someone posted an article that doesn't criticize a US enemy as much as you would like? I don't recall the poster ever saying "Sadr is a great hero". I don't understand your problem. He posted an article about Sadr's sult hero status among Iraqis-- unless you want to debate the accuracy of the article, I don't see what your beef is.

God Bless America. Death to the Arabs! SARCASM DISCLAIMER

maybe they don't read the New Yorker.

I don't disagree with you. Sadr is appealing to Iraqis.

But the obvious point of Aidonious posting this article is the usual American = bad, therefore anyone who's against America is good binary sort of thinking.

You sure seem to be reading a lot into Aidonious's post.

I do not wish that it is misunderstood, so there may be some subtle emphasis added:--

LET ME SPEAK FOR MYSELF

Anything original in there?

Shaker is an interesting fellow, but I don't see how he helps your argument (whatever that is).

There are a few parts in that piece that I find interesting. I will share them, then you can point out what you had in mind.

--snip--

Ali sat cross-legged on a rug against the wall, and looked directly at me. “Before this war, I was waiting for the Americans to come—and now I feel sort of cheated. All this talk about rebuilding Iraq, and all we see is a couple of light coats of paint. And they say they renovated Iraq.”

Samir, the unemployed younger brother, spoke in darker tones, with a faint smile. He had never had any illusions. “No enemy loves his enemy. We know very well that the Americans don’t intend us any good.”

The Americans had at least got rid of Saddam, I observed. “That’s not enough,” Ali said. “Now things are worse. We can’t go outside at four in the morning, as before.”

--snip--

It was a few weeks later, on March 28th, that Moqtada’s uprising began, and Sadr City exploded in days and nights of firefights between militiamen and American soldiers. I spoke with the doctor by phone. He had spent days trapped at home, unable to go to the morgue, while the uprising continued. Twelve of his friends in the neighborhood had died in crossfire. His brothers, Ali and Samir, wanted to join the Mahdi Army and fight the Americans, but he had stopped them. The scale of the violence shocked him, but not its outbreak, which he had seen coming. The bravery of the young militiamen, standing up to tanks with small arms, impressed him, and though he deplored their tactics, he sympathized with their goal—“real Islamic democracy.

--snip--

etc..

The bit about N.D.I. "missionaries" was quiant, but the author would have been well to have said anything at all about the real nature of the typical results of these organizations as a matter of foreign policy, the coup attempts against against Chavez & Aristide, for example.

Hmmm, what would that mean? Can that be?
You mean they don't all want to have a dictator-theocrat?
I thought they were all mindless ant-people that hate us for
our freedoms.

I get so sick of all these people who clearly know diddly-squat
about Arabs or Islam except the propaganda babble they see
on TV, and yet they feel qualified to pontificate on these issues.

What part of the post is advocating for Sadr, rather than just describing the situation? Your post makes ME embarrassed to post at DU.

then don't. Real simple solution.

Before the US decided that 'Sadr must go', he was a minor player with a following far smaller than others like the SCIRI/Badr Brigades.

By putting Sadr up as the cause of problems, and declaring 'We'll git him dead or alive', the US gave him instant celebrity status.

Fact is, the US did exactly the same damn thing for Osama bin Laden. If the US President gets up and says 'Osama bin Laden is enemy number one!', you're going to have a whole lot of people who haven't heard of him before give him their support, if only for the fact that he's someone who managed to piss the US off.

People get judged by their enemies. If you have powerful enemies, many assume you are powerful too. Now you find Osama T-Shirts being sold and worn by many who probably don't even agree with his views, save for the fact that he's managed to become 'enemy #1 of the US.

If the US approached these issues in a less arrogant manner, it would create far less enemies for itself.

I know this is a fairly complex concept, but if we don't start 'getting it', we will continue to be led by the nose by anyone who's figured this lesson out.

the Sadrists may have been treated as a 'minor player', but being underestimated only allowed the movement to quietly grow stronger. The weight on their backs is enormous, drawing from some of the most influential figures in Iraqi history in the last five decades.

Of course, the sustained aggressions carried out by the occupyers can only build on this.

...that Moqtada al Sadr wasn't really able to step into his father's shoes until the US determined that he was a huge threat. He's never tried to openly confront or displace Sistani from what I've seen, and I'm not sure he'd want to (he doesn't have the scholastic credentials, for one thing).

What I see that has given him the most power is by becoming a symbol of the resistance in Iraq. That has given him the backing of thousands of Sunnis, in addition to Sadrists, since he's the one "standing up to the US". This is all our doing. If we had listened to Sistani and had general elections by now (as Sistani wanted last year), and NOT declared that Sadr would be 'captured or killed', Sadr would not be as important as he is now nationwide. Although the Sadrist *movement* would still have clout, Moqtada al Sadr himself would not have gained such 'star power' across factional lines.

but my point was that there was quite a base before then, and it had consistantly been mistakenly passed over and downplayed.

I do doubt that his face would adorn buildings in al-Fallujah if not for the CPA's recruitment pitch, so you are of course right on that point. The actions of the occupyers have done much to dispel the fitna (discord) among the artificially divided communities, that may not have been possible without them.

What does any of that mean in detail, and why are such more prominently considered over more pressing matters of life & death?

who Shahidah Amina Haider al-Sadr is? Since you're so concerned with "women's rights" and Muqtada's assumed thoughts on the matter, that should be a necessity.

:cry:

our founding fathers must have been concerned about when they were in the process of expelling the brits from America. Uh-huh

Yep, when that's added to the points listed above it sure would be smart and admirable to idolize this guy. (sarcasm)

before truth has a chance to lace up its boots."

Nobody with any credibility in Iraq or the world still passes on this lie.

Do you see where this guy is coming from? Sadr is a "Robin Hood" to him.

I can't think of anything less relevant than your or my opinion of Sadr.

The only thing that matters is the Iraqis' opinion.

There are other comparisons that I personally would make.

You're coming on a bit strong. Let me say something interesting before you pounce on it, k?

It is perhaps comforting that cheap lies are the best that may be produced, though that comfort is fleeting when one considers that anybody actually believes the sort.

How old are you, kid?

I get the idea that I'm just not needed for this conversation, since my end of it is being submitted before I even speak..

I remember after 911 an e-mail circulating equating OBL with Obi Y kenobi (vs W's Emperor).
I got news for you: NOT EVERY ENEMY OF W IS OUR FRIEND!!!!!

not a shred of evidence. He posted an article about how many Iraqis idolize Sadr. Period.

and his attitude tells us he/she buys the views in the article wholesale.

It is true that I look upon Sadr favourably in some respects, though not unconditionally.

I always react badly to cheap propaganda and slander that I demonstrably know to be composed of lies. Not even the Khoei family is pursueing the "case" against Sayyid Muqtada, for they also know it to be false. You, Bremer, and the US-appointed Baathist judge that issued the "warrant" can circle-jerk yourselves all you want, but I will say that it is deliberate desception based on a bedrock of lies. If that is the sort of nonsense you will fill your head with, that is your choice. I, on the other hand, will confront that which I believe to be untrue and not just shallowly suck it down unthinkingly and obediently.

also part of our "circle jerk"? Isn't this circle getting a bit wide for logical comfort?

cartoon to be an example of logic? Do you think logic
works by some sort of voting system where if you have
more people in agreement with you, then you are logically
correct? Or is it that if you have the best cartoon, then
reason must be on your side?

Perhaps we can resolve all of these issues in a sort of trial
by cartoon. No doubt it's much simpler that way.

Hannibal, Spartacus, Hazrat Imam Husayn, Salah al-Din, Mikhail Bakunin, Bill Hicks..

I have only begun to study Mohammed Baqir al-Sadr and Mohammed Sadiq al-Sadr (Muqtada's predecessors) in the last year or two, though I would tenatively include them among a "2nd tier" that I greatly respect and admire. I am as yet uncertain on Sayyid Muqtada, though he is appearing in some respects more favourably with passing weeks. He has many years yet to show himself, however.

I don't need supporters of a wanted war criminal--that darling of the "cruise missile left" pack of hypocrite and charlatans--lecturing me.

could make this sort of backwards, medieval caveman into a popular revolutionary hero.

Bush could make athlete's foot popular if he declared war on it.

:thumbsup:

about that from? Oh that's right-- I pulled it out of my ass.

Don't pay 'em no mind.

country to get on the "either with us or agin' us" bandwagon. :eyes:


The question I have: Is Sadr any worse than Bush's occupation force?

In many ways he is like Ho Chi Minh or General Giap trying to throw out an occupying force that is brutalizing the population and willing to fight to get it done.

of murder? Why not approve of someone who say, doesn't kill people?

John Kerry maybe?

From now on, I'll have to request that you not make a mockery of yourself before I get the chance to..

I do that sometimes.

who will lead Iraq anymore than we had a choice in who was going to lead Vietnam after we got our asses kicked.

Thanks for posting that, Aidoneus.

I am very suspicious of everything I read about Sadr and the Mahdi Army, esp. since Bremer went all Ahab on his ass. IMO Sadr's support is deeper and wider than even this article would lead one to believe. For example, photographic evidence from the street battles in Najaf and Karbala shows that rather than a gang of teenage neverdowells, the Mahdi Army and the people who fight alongside them are men of all ages from all walks of life. This fact is confirmed by numerous reports from independent journalists in Iraq.

Branding Sadr as an extremist, which may be irreversible at this point, will lead to further conflicts down the road. Many of his views which seem wacky to a Western readership may be in line with mainstream Shia theology.

Sadr's connection to Hizbollah bothers U.S. authorities, and, indeed, for an occupation army that is a potential problem. Politically, however, if we, the US, are going to invade and occupy Islamic countries, it would behoove us to learn a little bit more about Islam. The kneejerk condemnation of Hizbollah pleases certain domestic constituencies, but it's clearly counterproductive in this situation.

but who knows.

Al Sadr and his followers are the Taliban of Iraq.
Al Sistani is biding his time. He is waiting for the Occupiers to kill al Sadr and nullify the Taliban of Iraq. When that is done al Sistani will call for the Occupation to cease and demand that the US and the UK to get out. There will most likey be a three way power sharing: Shi'ites, Sunnis and Kurds. They will divide Iraq up and form some sort of Republic. Whether US and UK business will be welcomed is up for debate.

Poll: Muqtada Second Most Popular Politician in Iraq

Roula Khalaf of the Financial Times reports the results of a poll of 1600 Iraqis from all major ethnic groups.

The results confirm that radical young Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is holed up in Najaf as his militiamen fight the Americans, has emerged as among the more popular politicians in Iraq, already suggested by a poll done in late March and reported in the Washington Post.

"Respondents saw Mr Sadr as the second most influential figure in Iraq, next only to Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the country's most senior Shia cleric. Some 32 per cent of respondents said they strongly supported Mr Sadr and another 36 per cent said they somewhat supported him. Ibrahim Jaafari, the head of the Shia Islamist Daawa party and a member of the governing council, came next on the list."

http://www.juancole.com/2004_05_01_juancole_archive.html#108503254624819964

Much more at Prof.Cole's site.

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