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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:00 PM
Original message
Historians Rate the Bush Presidency
From George Mason University's History News Network... 415 historians polled...



Of 415 historians who expressed a view of President Bush’s administration to this point as a success or failure, 338 classified it as a failure and 77 as a success. (Moreover, it seems likely that at least eight of those who said it is a success were being sarcastic, since seven said Bush’s presidency is only the best since Clinton’s and one named Millard Fillmore.) Twelve percent of all the historians who responded rate the current presidency the worst in all of American history, not too far behind the 19 percent who see it at this point as an overall success.

Among the cautions that must be raised about the survey is just what “success” means. Some of the historians rightly pointed out that it would be hard to argue that the Bush presidency has not so far been a political success—or, for that matter that President Bush has not been remarkably successful in achieving his objectives in Congress. But those meanings of success are by no means incompatible with the assessment that the Bush presidency is a disaster. “His presidency has been remarkably successful,” one historian declared, “in its pursuit of disastrous policies.” “I think the Bush administration has been quite successful in achieving its political objectives,” another commented, “which makes it a disaster for us.”

More info and graphs here:

http://hnn.us/articles/5019.html
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wouldn't this poll make more sense
say, 50 years from now? Not that I think the results are likely to change...

They are supposed to be *historians* after all
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Just as well to take the poll now
If Bush wins again, there probably won't be any more history books.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. So true!
Certainly not with anything that tells us what really happened to this country on 9/11, what really got us into the Iraq quagmire, and our total loss of standing as a nation.

Those pages will be blank with just a flag.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. Yeah, especially since Bush* told us we'll all be dead
:scared:
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Who Better Than Historians
To rate the current presidency against the others from history?
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. This morning is history...
so your post makes no sense.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. You mean like the "historical" memo of August 6, 2001?
or as in "we'll be all dead by then"
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. In Pursuit of Disastrous Policies
"His presidency has been remarkably successful in its pursuit of disastrous policies."

I'm hanging on to that quote. Wish we knew who said it.

Because of Bush several of the historians I know have found themselves in the position of having to reevaluate their entire idea of what "failure" means. That is, Bush has so lowered the bar on failure that it makes other Presidents previously considered failures to seem competent by comparison. Hoover is one that has been mentioned. He was a failure, but he wasn't a failure because he was an idiot.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Priceless quote!!! (n/m)
:D
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Actually, we now know only 18% of historians are dishonest
That is quite a bit lower than the number to be found in the general population of the Imperial Subjects of Amerika.

Historians! I salute you for having such lower numbers of Totalitarian Monsters and Facsism's Fellow-Travellers.

To be quite honest, that is exactly as I would expect it to be. Historians are generally an honest, thoughtful lot.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. LOL!!
Thanks for the chuckle. As Homer would say "It's funny 'cause it's true!"
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mark11727 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. By their logic...
Bush wasn't really a failure in business, either.

Sure, every enterprise he ever touched turned to sh*t...

...but he somehow managed to make a buck.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Good catch! Lots of interesting information in this article.
I'm sending it on to my e-group.
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. So sad - and SO FUCKING TRUE!! Chimp is the worst ever!
PERIOD!

Stupid/evil fuck can't possibly be elected or reselected...can he?

:puke:
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Depends who's counting the votes
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Ishoutandscream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. To Bush, it doesn't matter what historians think
"we'll all be dead."

Seriously, historians rating a president during his term in office is a little out of step, but it shouldn't be too difficult to label this administration as a miserable failure when one looks at deficits, war, the economy, etc.

My main question is this - what the hell were the 19% thinking? Still, kudos to historians. My favorite teachers, and some of my very best friends (hope you're a DUer, Dr. Wade).
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. That "Who knows? We'll all be dead" comment continues to haunt me.
I think about it all the time...
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heebyjeebus Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. Right OR Wrong hes still a schlong
You know I really think whether he was successful or not is irrelevant. He is pure stupidity and rightwing toss, he has brought the US and Britain to the brink of a pointless war and turned AMerica into a police state. But hey man, he's created more jobs! Yeah but he's a mass MURDERER!! Jeez
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. L M F A O at your subject line!!!
"Right or wrong, he's still a schlong."

ONE helluva bumpersticker, heebyjeebus!
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. That 19% is a phenomenal success, though.
Funnelling money.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks for the article
These guys know what they are talking about for the most part, check out this quote from one of the historians:

“He is blatantly a puppet for corporate interests, who care only about their own greed and have no sense of civic responsibility or community service. He lies, constantly and often, seemingly without control, and he lied about his invasion into a sovereign country, again for corporate interests; many people have died and been maimed, and that has been lied about too. He grandstands and mugs in a shameful manner, befitting a snake oil salesman, not a statesman. He does not think, process, or speak well, and is emotionally immature due to, among other things, his lack of recovery from substance abuse. The term is "dry drunk". He is an abject embarrassment/pariah overseas; the rest of the world hates him . . . . . He is, by far, the most irresponsible, unethical, inexcusable occupant of our formerly highest office in the land that there has ever been.”
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. It's good fun, eh?
And historians are doing nothing wrong by casting the light of history upon the Bush Administration. I'm fascinated...
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. They should be speaking out
Any odds on media outlets picking up this study? Let me hold my breath....
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. NJ Star: History won't be kind to Bush
http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/wood/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/1084683296161090.xml
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm guessing * will rate between Franklin Pierce and Andrew Johnson.
Clearly, one of the worst Presidents.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I've got Hoover-on-the-Brain, but you're right, terrya!!!
Worst. President. Ever.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. An historian commented early in Bush's term that he would be..
.. 'the most unpopular president in history'. That would be his legacy. That he would fail miserably.
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cmf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
24. I've been saying this one for a while
“His presidency has been remarkably successful,” one historian declared, “in its pursuit of disastrous policies.”

I totally agree with it. My husband has gone as far as saying that he doesn't think that Bush* even cares about being reelected, since they have gotten everything they wanted coming in. Tax cuts, war etc. I guess the only thing they haven't gotten so far is to appoint a couple new Supreme Court justices to ensure the death knell of Roe v. Wade.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. You are right about Roe. Plus, Bush wants to invade more countries.
On top of all that, God told him that his reelection was more important than peace in the Middle East.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
27. Who cares what historians say? "We'll be all dead by then"
Asked by Woodward how history would judge the war, Bush replied: "History. We don't know. We'll all be dead.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. shaddup!!!!
:scared:

The most chilling segment of that original Woodward "60 Minutes" interview to me. I saved it, just to remind myself...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
29. Zero point zero.


"Smirking, drunk and stupid
is no way to go through life, Chimpy."
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. Kick for Sounds Good to Me n/t
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