When does a human life begin?

Or, more correctly stated, "at what point in the development of a
new human life does it become unacceptable to deliberately terminate
it arbitrarily, and what are the acceptable reason(s) for termination
for cause at later point(s) in such development?" (Credit to Bemildred for that last portion).

I say when the fetus can survive outside of the womb. Comments and thoughts?

:D You got me there! :D

But more seriously, it's a continuous process, there is no cutoff.
The correct question is: "at what point in the development of a
new human life does it become unacceptable to deliberately terminate
it arbitrarily, and what are the acceptable reason(s) for termination
for cause at later point(s) in such development?".

A messy business.

:evilgrin:

although quick studies might make it 27

When you finally move out of your parent's house.

If you haven't yet, time to start thinking about it.

That's why it's the answer!

The zygote then fits the definiton of life you gave.

However, when _human_ life begins is an entirely different question. What distinguishes a human being from other animals, and conversely, what is the quality that we humans deem to be the axiomatic basis of the moral difference between killing a human (AKA murder) and an animal or a plant? It's sentience. So, human life begins when the organism becomes sentient.

Since communicating sentience isn't necessarily a prerequisite of having it, there's no way to know when this moment is. But it sure ain't before the brain develops to be distinguishably human.

at the moment of birth is where I consider human life begins. But if you look at in the old testament, I can't remember where is there is a time called the "quickening" that is after birth that some believed marked the beginning of human life.

If there are any Edgar Cayce fans out there
( probably at least one or two)
he has an interesting take on this subject

he says (to paraphrase..)
sometimes at the moment of birth
sometimes up to several hours afterwards!

It happens between 4-1/2 and 5-1/2 months into the pregnancy, when the fetus is big enough and strong enough for its movements (usually kicking) to be felt. Ever hear the terms "to feel life" or "feeling the baby kick"? That's quickening.

But that is just my personal belief and something I do not wish to force upon others through government force and coercion.

...which is about the middle thirties or so. :)

MRI on the brain of a premature baby..one that was really early..weighed a couple of pounds and found there were no convolutions on the brain yet.

It seems to happen later for them.

I don't know about that one. It seems to never happen for them. :)

I answered "other."

It could be argued that the egg and sperm on their own are "alive," so the distinction between pre- and post-fertilization is rather arbitrary. Life is really just one big continuous thing, with reproduction being nothing but the mechanism that keeps it going.

Because of this my own beliefs center around when a life becomes a person. Rather than bore you, I'll just refer you to the book that covers my views pretty well: The Facts of Life: Science and the Abortion Controversy

To sum up:
Reviewing the latest advances in molecular biology, evolutionary biology, embryology, neurophysiology, and neonatology--fields that all bear on this question--the authors reveal a surprising consensus of scientific opinion; that humanness begins around the twenty-forth week of gestation when connections needed for brain function are finally made.


Edited to add, now that I've read your new post, that after this point I would say it's only acceptable to abort for the health of the mother (I include disability, not just death) and for problems with the fetus. Some might judge a woman or couple that aborts a down syndrome baby, for instance, but taking on a disabled child is a huge responsibility and I don't think anyone can know the life of another well enough to judge such a decision. Personally, I do believe it's ethical to consider these types of quality of life issues for both the child and the family.

Of course, the above is only my opinion and I would never seek to force my personal beliefs on others.

It doesnt really seem relevant beyond that.

My own view, the standard I would use in making my own decision, is given above, but I agree with you 110%.

although I don't know how we could determine that.

Personally, I think it is wrong to terminate a pregnancy past the time when it is likely viable if born, according to current medical science. (I distinguish this from legally... this is just me personally, and also doesn't factor in for life of the mother, etc)

However, this is an arbitrary thing, because medical science is constantly outdoing itself. What if the day comes when an 8 week fetus could be grown in an artifical womb? At that point should 1st trimester abortion be illegal, because a simple removal and transfer could be done?

No easy answers.

Before I became political I was tacitly pro-life (not that I'd use that term at the time, and not that I'd ever align myself with the majority of hypocrits (pro life pro death penalty) that comprise the formal "Pro Life" orgs). I got interested in history before politics and had read about back-alley abortions and herbal abortions.

So my reasoning for supporting abortion is that it's going to happen no matter what, so you might as well make it safe. It aligns in a general way with my view of prostitution.

I strongly support birth control in all forms, and further research into methods.

I say that life begins when an organism is self-aware, and that it should be illegal to terminate a life when the organism can understand what termination entails. Then again, you can argue when a human becomes self-aware.

/sarcasm

Oh for real? When the fetus can survive outside of the womb.

If it's not exchanging CO2 and oxygen in the lungs yet, it's not alive.

In some cases, never. E.G, the BFEE, and some of those torturers in Iraq.

When does it become unacceptable to terminate a fetus arbitrarily? When the pregnant women damn well thinks so!

He and the rest of the pre-19th century X-dom crowd were right...

Luckily I believe that a woman has control over her reproduction and and as such don't have to 'offer' an opinion on the subject...

If you get plurality/majority and then SOCIETY makes the decision for any particular woman/property...what are you going to do?

Send a ACC 110 after the 'baby killer'?

Another solution...

Canadian women will soon be able to purchase the so-called morning-after pill in pharmacies without a doctor's prescription, the federal Health Minister announced yesterday.

"Women facing an emergency need timely access to this type of therapy," Pierre Pettigrew said in announcing the change in the drug's status.

at fertilization because at that point the cells are growing and to me cells are life.

you've died? Why not? Cells are dying...

Using your definition, a cancerous tumor would be life...

That is one of the holdings of the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade.

The key is the word "human" and the meaning the Court gave to it - that the life, however "human-like" prior to birth, is not entitled to the protections afforded by law ("human rights") to a "human being" until it has an independent life of its own - i.e. at the moment it is born and takes its first breath of air.

This may appear to some as arbitrary, but the line, when it comes to according legal rights and duties, must be drawn somewhere, and this is the line drawn by the Court in Roe v. Wade, and when you think about it, and consider their reasoning, it all makes sense.

My wife is currently pregnant, mid-term. Of course we think of our fetus as our "child", our "baby", and it's certainly "human" as opposed to "animal" or "plant", but we have no qualms about accepting the Court's decision about the point in time it becomes a "human" life in the sense of acquiring legal rights and duties - at the time of birth and taking its first breath of air. We certainly don't feel the least bit threatened by the Court's decision in that regard, and frankly can't imagine why so many people do.

That's what I learned in school.

When does a neo-con's life become "human"?

When hell freezes over.:grr: