Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Kerry unfit to serve as Commander In Chief?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 12:44 PM
Original message
Kerry unfit to serve as Commander In Chief?
Edited on Thu May-27-04 12:49 PM by Elwood P Dowd
"You are going to chose a commander in chief of the U.S. Military in about six months. On the one hand you have a man who has earned the respect of our men and women in uniform by showing them the respect they have earned and by leading them with resolve and boldness. On the other hand you have a man who took the quick and easy way out of Vietnam, and who's been called unfit to serve as commander in chief by virtually all of the people who commanded him in Vietnam." Neal Boortz

So a lying, awol, draft dodger is more qualified than a decorated Vietnam war veteran? He took the quick and easy way out of Vietnam by getting shot at and wounded three times? All of this coming from another draft dodger - Neal Boortz!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. yeah, getting wounded three times is the quick & easy way out
dumbass
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. And his commanders called him unfit to serve
yet they awarded him 5 medals! What kind of dumbass commanders did the Navy have back then? I was in the Army during Vietnam and realize the Navy was probably more lenient with the awards, but 5 medals??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. One of them a Silver Star, that's getting rare!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Neil Boortz is a shitpile and a (w)ussy
He thrives best when no one is there to argue against him.

He thrives almost as well on the Rigged Bloated Pundit Cable TV Shows, because they are so obviously sympathetic to the Bushevik Cause of Tyranny and can always be counted upon not to bring anyone who will satnd up to the Cowardly Boortz.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yeah. What a candy-assed pussy.
All these neocons.


:nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. He does NOT allow anyone to call in who disagrees with him
I listen to him nearly every day -- sort of like the proverbial passerby's watching the aftermath of a car wreck :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Someone needs to ask Neel..Hey Boortz where were you in 72
I tried but he won't let me in there. Not Bush 72..We know he was AWOL drunk and doping but Boortz !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. He had a fistula on his scrotum. 4-F medical deferment.
:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phattyt Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Jesus...
How the hell can anyone in good conscience say something like this? On one hand you have an idiot who has made an ass out of himself, his country, and our military by recklessly sending our troops into harms way for no reason other than personal gain, all the while masquerading that he supports our troops (yet he can't even prove he showed up to National Guard duty), and you have another who is a decorated and genuine war hero! Sickening...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Too True
Welcome to DU :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. In your question lies the answer... "good conscience", they have none.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. LOL
Tell your colleagues that Bush was AWOL then and he would still be if he thought he might get hurted!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Straight up lies.
Thats all there is to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Simply Orwellian
supporting the troops by not providing enough armor or bullets, lying to them, hiding the bodies and the truth and stealing their souls, hearts, minds and body. He can dream all he wants - but the military will be voting pretty much unanimously for ANYONE BUT BUSH.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jdsmith Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. Remember how well surrogates' "Orwellian" talk worked in GA and SC
No matter Boortz's (non)(in)credibility, it's not us he's speaking to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. That's right ...
Look what they did to Max Cleland.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. The "logic" in that statement is horrifying.
Edited on Thu May-27-04 01:54 PM by GreenPartyVoter
The "easy" way out is to get shot. Boortz, yer a boob!

I guess we can see that this is one "libertarian" for whom the economic side of things means more to him than the civil rights side. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. At least Kerry
can ride a bike and eat a pretzel without getting his face smashed in.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Do you think these idiots ever listen to themselves?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. I do..Cat Girl...I just don't think they listen to anyone else !!
they just talk to hear themselves talk and never ever listen to anyone with even half a brain cell...LOL !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. The NeoCons have also done this to John McCain and Max Cleland....
...and they're desperate enough now to believe it will also work against Kerry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm not electing a "Commander in Chief". . .
I'm electing a President who serves the function of Commander-in-Chief when necessary and proper for him to do so. I have every trust John Kerry will fulfill the duties of his office in all particulars, but to gauge his competency on a personal perception of how he will be received by subordinates (or, in this case, the personal perception of an exceptionally "interested party") is absurd.

When will this nation recognize again that the duties of the "Commander-in-Chief" are but a function of the office of the President of the United States? It is not an office separate from the Presidency. What's the difference? Consider this illustration:

The Emancipation Proclamation was issued by Mr Lincoln "by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-In-Chief of the Army and Navy." He was uncertain if he could free any slaves acting solely as President (there were Constitutional issues that needed to be resolved; hence, the 13th Amendment at the close of the war). This is why the Proclamation freed only those slaves held in bondage within lands controlled by the rebellion.

On the other hand, when Mr Lincoln defined the nature and purpose of the War in his remarks at Gettysburg, he spoke solely as the President and not as Commander-in-Chief. His purpose at Gettysburg was to honor the troops, not lead them, so he rightly assumed the mantle of civilian administrator. (And, as an aside, since troops were considered in those days as militia of a state before their allegiance to the nation, Mr Lincoln wasn't invited to participate at Gettysburg until late in the planning stage, since the event's intent was to honor the fallen from the individual States -- thus, their burial in graves grouped by State.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. AT last a sane view of what we elect every four years!
Someone else who has a historical understanding of the office and its functions.

I've often thought of Washington and the Whiskey Rebellion (Penna. over taxes) after the Revolution. Washington rode out of the capital at the head of the army as a symbol of national resolve ---basically, so the word would go out to the disgruntled Pennsylvania farmers and their potential allies in rebellion). But, a few miles out of the city, Washington broke off from the army and returned. Why? The symbolic point was made, the nation was willing to use force to maintain order and union AND he didn't want to go into battle against his countrymen.

That jackass currently occupying the White House would have ridden all the way in to the backcountry at the head of the army screaming about his "resolve!" Washington understood the difference between various functions of his office and the symbolic needs. Bush* the Usurper only understands his own desires. Is it any wonder his half-witted supporters see the world in such childish terms? Not to me

BTW, how can any military man or woman these days think that the Bush* crowd "honors" the military? I'm a vet and all I see is cuts to vet and active benefits and the smearing of anyone who served no matter what they did or earned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Maybe you can resolve something for me, w_d. . .
I read in the aftermath of Shrub's costume party on the USS Lincoln that his stunt was the first and only time a President has every donned a full military uniform. In every instance before, the most they've worn was a souvenir flight jacket or the like (and in the case of former high-ranking military officers -- Eisenhower and Grant -- they scrupulously avoided wearing any military insignia while President). Because of this stunt, that writer (and I wish I'd saved the article) believed Shrub's stunt was both traditionally and politically criminal, since it placed the Presidency on par with the military, instead of maintaining his civilian overseer status. Any thoughts on this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Well, not *legally* crimal for sure
but definitely contrary (criminal in a moral sense if you will) to all established custom. As custom is symbolic and meant as political action at that level (performed by the President himself) then I would have to agree.

Further, the deliberate blurring of lines between civilian and military has been troubling since September 11, 2001. The first President was a military man and he understood the importance of making control of the military civilian in a republic. When as commander of the Continental Army he *surrendered* his sword to Congress, he (and they) were making an important statement. Bush* and his cohort of pirates have sought to create something that doesn't exist in the US: the Militarized President. Its dangerous on all sorts of levels.

Hope that they fail in this. There is nothing but trouble if they are a success in their desires.

BTW, Grant and Eisenhower understood something that the coward Bush* never will that goes beyond tradition. But, they served under fire didn't they?.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Hilter always wore his military uniform
as did a very few other leaders, none of them the good kind of leaders.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Black is White, Up is Down, etc. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. I think Kerry would put his military records up against Bush's any day
Lay 'em out on the table George: http://www.johnkerry.com/about/military_records.html

Kerry 1969 Vietnam Action

The following is a summary of combat actions of PCF94 from February 12 to March 17, 1969 taken from after-action reports and the Coastal Division Eleven Command History on file at the Naval Operational Archives. All locations are near the south end of the Mekong Delta in Vietnam.

12 FEB 1969
Two swiftboats inserted Navy Seals and conducted normal river patrols the night of February 12 and early morning of February 13.

13 FEB 1969
PCF 94 conducted routine Psyops mission.

14 FEB 1969
Two swiftboats inserted seal team and provided protection for mission.

18 FEB 1969 Bay Hap River
Kerry's boat and another swiftboat, PCF72, entered the Bay Hap River in the afternoon carrying Navy Seals. A mine exploded close to PCF72, and a short time later the two boats came under heavy fire. Five B-40 rounds were fired at Kerry's boat, three missed and exploded on the river bank, one passed across the bow and another passed across the boat's stern. A mine exploded about 15 yards in front of Kerry's boat. It was suspected that the Viet Cong had expected the boats to come up the river and planned an ambush.

19 FEB 1969 Bay Hap River
As a follow-up to the mission of 18 February, five swiftboats moved downriver in the morning with a company of South Vietnamese marines to engage troops that took swiftboats under fire the day before. The boats came under fire several times during the day, although damage was limited to "several SA (small arms) holes in superstructure and rigging of PCH 72 and 94."

20 FEB 1969 Dam Doi River
On a patrol of the Dam Doi River with five other swiftboats and helicopter cover, PCF 94 came under intense small arms and rocket fire from three personnel in black pajamas on the bank. Kerry and one member of his crew were wounded. Kerry received shrapnel wounds in his left thigh. The second man, EN2 Eugene Kenneth Thorson suffered shrapnel wounds in his right arm. Both were treated aboard the USCGC Wachusetts and returned to duty. Persons filing reports on this mission were highly critical of the cover provided by the helicopters and noted that the area seemed prosperous and lacked offensive bunkers, and suggested that future operations in the area avoid destruction. Kerry received the Purple Heart for this operation.

25 FEB 1969 Cua Lon River
Early in the morning, four swiftboats, including Kerry's, rendezvoused to conduct operations against Viet Cong targets with cover from helicopters. The party destroyed several boats as well as a suspected Viet Cong meeting hall containing Ho Chi Minh posters and Viet Cong uniforms. Later in the day, the boats encountered heavy fire from rockets and automatic weapons. The boats and helicopters suppressed the enemy fire. When a man was seen running into a bunker, PCF94 beached and an assault party was sent to retrieve him. The landing party was fired on shortly after landing on the beach and pinned down until another boat could reach the area. When the Viet Cong refused to leave the bunker in spite of repeated requests from the Officer in Charge, the bunker was destroyed.

26 FEB 1969 Cua Lon River
On night patrol with two other swiftboats, PCFs 43 and 44, the patrol discovered a double-hulled sampan. Five men on the sampan jumped overboard, but were trapped the boats at the waters edge. They resisted capture and boat crews had to jump off the boat and drag them back on board. After taking the Vietnamese prisoners back to the boats, all three boats began to pull away from shore when a rocket fired from shore exploded near PCFs 43 and 44. The boats returned fire and withdrew with five prisoners. One of the prisoners taken on board was seriously injured with a broken leg. When filing their report, the crews believed that the prisoners avoided capture to delay and facilitate an attack on the boats. After interrogation, it was determined that the prisoners were not military.

27 FEB 1969 Bay Hap River
On an evening patrol with two other swiftboats, PCFs 23 and 43, about 26 miles south of Ca Mu, the patrol took heavy fire, including five rockets. Three rockets narrowly missed Kerry's boat, and exploded on the opposite bank. Another rocket exploded near PCF 94, and the fifth exploded near PCF 23, wounding a crewmember on that boat. The boats suppressed the fire and withdrew. During the battle, a sailor on Kerry's boat, Crewmember/Trainee Michael J. Givens was shot in the upper right arm. Givens injuries were not serious and he was sent to the 79th field hospital in Can Tho.

28 FEB 1969 Bay Hap River
Three PCFs were traveling up the Bay Hap River with 70 South Vietnamese Militia investigating an area where the boats were ambushed the previous night. During the patrol, the boats came under heavy fore from the shore. Kerry, serving as the Officer in Tactical Command of the mission, ordered the units to turn toward the fire and beach. As the boats approached shore, more than 20 Viet Cong troops stood up and ran. They were quickly overrun when the Marines troops reached the shore. While the Militia searched the area, PCFs 23 and 94 left to investigate another site where an Army advisor reported gunshots. Returning from the site, a B-40 rocket exploded close to PCF94, blowing out one of the windows. Kerry again ordered the units to turn into the fire and charge the ambush site. PCF 94 landed in the center of ambush and a man jumped up holding a B-40 rocket launcher and started to run. The forward M-60 gunner on PCF94 wounded him in the leg as Kerry jumped off the boat and chased him inland behind a hooch and shot him. Marines swept the area, and received fire from snipers and small arms that was suppressed with the assistance of mortars and gunfire from the swiftboats. The landing parties found vast stores of rice, ammunition and clothing. The boats were fired on one additional time as they were heading back down the river. The site of the second ambush was believed to be a major Viet Cong supply point. Kerry received the Silver Star for this operation.

1 MAR 1969 Bay Hap River
Four Swiftboats conducted operation "U-HAUL," which involved towing fuel bladders up the Bay Hap River to Cai Nuoc. The units received light fire during the operation.

10 MAR 1969 Cua Lon River
Four swiftboats, including PCF94, carried troops and surveyed an area where other boats were ambushed two days earlier. No incidents occurred.

11 MAR 1969 Cua Lon River
Three swiftboats cleared the Cua Lon River of barricades. The mission received no hostile fire and no casualties were reported.

12 MAR 1969 Cua Lon River
Four swiftboats proceeded up Cau Lon with 20 troops on board. The boats encountered hostile small arms fire, which was suppressed. A short time later, two or three mines detonated and the boats came under heavy automatic weapons fire from both banks. Unable to suppress the fire, the boats moved south to extract the troops and called in air support. After the area received artillery and air strikes, the boats returned and inserted the troops, who observed, but could not capture 9 Vet Cong troops. One female was captured, taken to the USS Washtenaw and later returned.

13 MAR 1969 Bay Hap River; Dong Cung Canal
Four swiftboats were engaged in moving Mobile Strike Force troops on the Bay Hap River and the Dong Cung Canal. Moving down the river in the afternoon following a day of heavy fighting, a mine detonated underneath PCF 3, lifting it 2-3 feet out of the water and, at the same time, a second mine detonated near PCF94, wounding Kerry and knocking an Army advisor on PCF94 into the water. Meanwhile the boats began receiving heavy fire from both sides of the river. Kerry, who had received shrapnel wounds and hurt his right arm, directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire while he pulled the Army advisor back into his boat. PCF 94 then returned to aid PCF 3 and towed the boat down the river to safety. Kerry received the Bronze Star for this action.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pobeka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Any info on what Bush was doing on those exact days?
That would be worth a million bucks...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I couldn't find Bush's military records anywhere on his website
Kerry's records are right there for everybody to download, he has nothing to hide. Bush's records are nowhere to be found - what's he hiding?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. Geez
"On the one hand you have a man who has earned the respect of our men and women in uniform by showing them the respect they have earned and by leading them with resolve and boldness."

Playing "dress-up" and landing on an aircraft carrier pretending that the "mission" is "accomplished" doesn't count.

MorAn!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. When it comes to Denigrating the Opposition to make yourself look good
The Pubs are Masters. They use Pub PsyOps 101.03, .05, .02, .06 very well.

Its Brain Washing with repetition
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
33. He certainly can't be talking about bush* or he's out of his fucking mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC