Does everyone understand what Al Gore is saying here? It is important

He is saying that he created the Internet, Love Canal and that Kerry is a flip-flopper.

Oops, I was reading the FoxNews transcript. My bad.

Good one!

...his options. He has said he will continue the occupation of Iraq, but will seek a multilateral approach. He could just as easily say "this is wrong, based on lies, and I will end the occupation if I'm elected." These general statements don't limit his options-- they tell voters what he believes and how he wants to respond to the challanges facing America.

Based on what Kerry HAS said, I cannot vote for him. Clarification might change my mind, even without limiting his options. My impression is that there are many of us on the left who want to hear what Kerry really wants to do, and who are uncomfortable with the statements he's already made.

make Kerry president first and then let him decide whether he thinks that pulling out of Iraq is a good idea.

I would be more excited about this proposal if I thought that staying in Iraq might be a good idea and if Kerry hadn't voted for the war in the first place.

Preemptive war is a bad idea whether the war is waged by our candidate or someone else.

it's a violation of International Law! But...when you have no regard for human life, care only about your fat-cat slovenly buddies,are a serial liar...who cares about "International Law?" Besides...whatcha gonna do 'bout it?

I am going to decide whether I live in a presidential election district is fairly certain before I vote.

If it is fairly certain, then I will send Candidate Kerry a symbolic message with my vote.

If I decide that I live in a district that could go either way, then I will have to vote for Kerry and content myself with mere verbal advocacy on boards like DU.

I wish we could dump his ass and make Gore the nominee.

How the hell can you state right now what you would do in IraqNam in January of 2005.

The place is so lit up and screwy that there is no possible way of saying what you would do 8 months from now. No way in the entire world.

available/open by not being too or 'overly specific' now ... don't offer 'detailed proposals' because the situation is so out-of-hand ... Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns ... a wild card ... proposing anything specific and/or detailed in this "rapidly changing and deteriorating' mess today may be like pouring it the drain ... shooting at a moving, if not invisible target ... the damage isn't over ... the total consequences yet unknown ...

think of all the wheeling-and-dealing that apparently went on before they even stole the election ... so many variables

... take a wait-and-see and cautious approach ... (one can still address the mess as it unfolds, etc.)

... it's such a mess that we might as well wait until the dust settles so we can devise a clear strategy ... take the patient's pulse in January; assess what needs to be done ... then, be specific ...

maybe?
:shrug:

"Does everyone understand what Al Gore is saying here? It is important"

Yes. I understand. This is called meaningless generalizations and gobbledygook I believe.

"Kerry should not tie his own hands by offering overly specific, detailed proposals concerning a situation that is rapidly changing and unfortunately, rapidly deteriorating, but should rather preserve his, and our country's, options, to retrieve our national honor as soon as this long national nightmare is over."

Oh .... feel the power in those words!

You paid to abuse us ....

You could have abused us for free ....

He is saying, as you well know, that it would be foolhardy to lay out specifics to deal with a situation when that situation is in flux and any plan Kerry makes cannot be carried out for months to come. There is no benefit to enunciating a plan at this time, only potential pitfalls.

But as I said, I am certain you know this. It's pretty basic logic after all. So why are you going out of your way to bash it? What's your beef?

The armchair politicians that sit around and scream Kerry must take a stand like they know some shit ain't kidding nobody. The Chimp and his minions are holding all of the cards right now. There is too much shit they have control over. Shit that Kerry has no control over. The only option Kerry has is to react as the Chimp keeps screwing up. Kerry has no control over any of these things. Kerry may not even need a knockout punch (some brazen new position for instance) before November? Just the jabs may take the Chimp down. Thats what Gore tried to do in 2000. It worked, he got over a half a million more votes than the Crackhead In Chief, but he got screwed by Bush 1's cronies at the Supreme Court. Kerry won't take no chances like Gore did though. If he is only a half a dozen points ahead in polling in October he will go with a left hook for sure. But we just don't know? Too many variables.

Don

And in my personal opinion.....Kerry should be talking peace. We don't want to hear pre-emptive, occupation of any kind, killing, prisoners, imperialism, colonialism. I, if I'm typical, want peace. I want opportunity for the us and them - the little people. I want less fear and dubious terror and C movie acting performances.

Kerry has to walk on baby grass. He will win international support if he talks peace. He will win the citizens of this country.

Right now, there are many of us who don't know if Kerry will go neo-con on Iraq and other things - meaning what is good for the corporation is good for the country, their modus operandi.

Kerry needs to find some peace drive in his heart and let it spill.

Sen Clinton and Kerry really bother me about Iraq and killing.

I am aprehensive.

Gore is also perfectly correct about not providing detail.

Kerry should get all the help he can get to develop a plan, this time with plenty of contingencies, and not get locked down for the futuere - there is probably going to be a civil war very soon; the situation is dire and will be turned upside down. We can't even imagine the problems.

Some of the leaders in the ME could help him out if they wanted to and if he'd let them. They have answers and it starts and ends with Palestine, as usual, whether or not Iraq pulls it off.

bring our troops home as soon as possible was the addition that Nixon added to HH's "peace now" - and I think that addition won Nixon the election in 68.

John Kerry just came out in favor of "preemptive wars" today and also quoted one of his favorite heros Teddy Roosevelt.

If elected Kerry said he will "walk softly and carry a big stick" just like Teddy Roosevelt.

Wonderful. Who will he be clubing?

Ya that Teddy Roosevelt and his roughriders were a pretty nice collection of freedom fighters. They were just trying to export democracy to Cuba! Had nothing to do with sugar.

So how about this for a Kerry campaign slogan: "REMEMBER THE MAINE!"

>>>Kerry just came out in favor of "preemptive wars" today<<<

Because if our country ever was definitely and without a doubt about to be attacked by another country I too would say go for it. Wouldn't it had been kind of nice if we could have sent out a couple of hundred planes and sunk the Japanese ships preparing to attack Pearl Harbor. Know what I mean? What are you doing by the way? Just blowing smoke around here or what? Thanks in advance.

Don

and pre-empted Pearl Harbor in a more peaceful way. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that FDR was baiting the Japanese. As far as whether FDR had advance knowledge of the actual surprise attack, well . . . that kind of speculation is just plain crazy!

You have hit the nail on the head better than anything I have read in a long while. I have always thought that the new Iraq war resembled the Spanish American War more closely than it resembled Viet Nam (not that I am a big fan of the police action in Viet Nam, I just think it is factually distinguishable from Iraq in a fundamental way).

for saying essentially "Bush is unraveling and Kerry should stay out of the way..."

I've done a complete 360 on this issue.

As they say, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. ;)

If it is working, don't change it.

It's kinda fun to watch the criminals finally imploding.

Just hope they don't take a final swipe at the rest of us TRUE partiots on their way down and into the dustbin of history.

That is what I fear the most.

folks are too quick to say kerry needs to speak up, but bush's numbers are tanking and kerry is edging up, and we're still 5 mos away...

i'd say don't fuck up a good thing.

Right. So if Kerry speaks he'll screw things up?

Perhaps he should not campaign at all and just sit in front of his fireplace. That way the Republicans can't attack him!

it's about setting a rigid, detailed plan for Iraq at this point.

You seem to be attacking Kerry just fine.

HE will not screw things up, but * could very well screw things up FOR him.

to beat, his options are limited. The neocons are attacking his every word, the propaganda and terror threats played in the media are never ending. The neocons are trying to scare the hell out of the entire country so if Kerry says he will pull the troops out of Iraq now, he loses the election, imo.

Once Kerry is in office, I believe the international community will be willing to work again with this country. I don't believe Kerry wants troops there either, he served in Vietnam and knows this is a no win situation with the US as occupiers.

" if Kerry says he will pull the troops out of Iraq now, he loses the election"

He can't pull all of the troops out of Iraq now. He's not the President!

He could say: "If you elect me President, I will have all of our GI's home, reunited with their loved ones, within 60 days of taking office."

because we have no idea what will be happening in January.

and we need a long term approach.

i am glad i caught it :wow:

and he is absolutely correct and it's also why i hate politics :evilgrin:

peace

Kerry's not stupid. He's waiting for the train wreck to end, no telling which parts of the train are gonna end up where.

Kerry's keeping his options open.

Look, if you have a situation were everything may go to hell in a handbasket tomorrow, you can't promise anything. It's madness to try. It looks to me like the troops should come home immediately. But I don't know that is honestly the best thing for the people of Iraq. It's a fine, fine, balance. At some point this decisions have to be made. The situation in Iraq today is not going to be the same one in January 2005, and Kerry is smart enough to realize this.

Please provide some facts for this assumption.

Thank you.

The Americans have completely and irredeemably lost all credibility and respect in the eyes of the Iraqi people. US troops should withdraw from all populated areas and be replaced by different faces. Only Kerry will be able to pull that off.

"US troops should withdraw from all populated areas and be replaced by different faces. Only Kerry will be able to pull that off."

Where do you propose to station those troops, in the desert next to Kuwait? And I'm also wondering what faces you want to give the occupiers .... Spanish, German, French or perhaps Latvian?

I'm not so sure the Iraqi people would welcome new faces, even if they are restricted to non-populated areas as you suggest. And I'm not sure what those "new" faces will do in those areas .... perhaps they can just cover themselves up with sand and hide.

I don't think anyone can "pull that off" and I'm not even sure of what exactly is being pulled off against the Iraqi people under this scheme.

How about just bringing our troops home?

we removed whatever stability there was in the country. Completely withdrawing troops immediately will most probably throw the country into years of civil war and kill thousands or even hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT people. Whatever we do, we cannot make it even worse, kill more people, and cause MORE hatred in the world. Bush* is the cause of all this. It's going to take someone with courage and brains to get us out of it. I'm 100% positive that person is not Bush or Nader.

"Completely withdrawing troops immediately will most probably throw the country into years of civil war ...."

Who is saying immediately, like this Sunday? Would January or February 2005 be too quick? I'm sure that's not too hasty for either our GI's, their loved ones or the Iraqi people.

No one knows how fast is too fast. That is why Kerry should not even try to claim NOW what he will do next year.

ANyThing he says today, will bedifferent tomorrow. they are just guesses at the moment, he not being in whitehouse and all the intel and what it will be in january. i agree.

and in him giving out his plan, bush adopted, now people say no difference in plans. olderman was the only one i heard say bush took kerry's plan, the upside, may help the military, adn needs to be done. kerry has to get credit. instead of saying their plans are the same, needs to be said bush adopted kerrys plan. but my conclusion, bush is not kerry and though he says he is going to do kerrys plan wont work, because bush wont work kerrys plan as kerry would. so figure will be another miserable failure

It makes no sense to form solid plans for anything right now, not even the economy. Until Kerry's elected and has the power to open all the books on EVERYTHING and to actually see first hand all the damage that was done, there's just no way he can formulate any kind of plans to effectively deal with any of it.

Here's an analogy:

You are hired to clean up a room that's behind a locked door and you're asked how you're going to do it and how long it's going to take. Can you answer those questions? Of course not, not until you get the key and unlock the door and see what it looks like inside.

...that Kerry, as a long time member of the Senate, should have enough knowledge about the current situation to form "given this, I'll do that" statements.

But it's bullshit.

This admin. holds Repub only policy meetings and even then they don't inform members of their own party what's going on.

They don't even tell the Homeland Security there's a major terror threat, or the Pentagon that their planning to raze the Abu Ghraib.

There's no way Kerry can have any clear picture of the situation about ANYTHING. I think he's been doing a pretty good job of laying out his plans considering how in the dark he and everyone else is about the status of pretty much everything.

in washington.
iraq has exposed a whole bunch of incompetent folk -- at the pentagon, the cia, etc. -- gore is absolutely right kerry will need to keep all his options open -- among them some major lay-offs.