Having a little problem with, "Support the troops".

Why?

I mean sure there are some who joined up for schooling and to avoid real life but it is voluntary service, right?

On the one hand I feel for those troops who aren't brainwashed to the point of no return; then on the other hand I saw many interviews with soldiers who were itching to, "go kill me some Iraqis".

Any reason I should support the troops, as a whole, since I feel the majority looked forward to whacking a few Iraqis?

I can tell you that not all soldiers feel the way those "John Wayne" cowboys do. I have three people in my immediate family in Iraq right now. My sister says her son is absolutely horrified by what is going on and can't wait to get out. School is not worth it.

Get pre-k through college free public schooling and watch those enlistment numbers go down. Then we'll have only people who really want to serve the country in uniform actually serving.

But even then, there will still be folks in uniform who disagree with what they are told to do.

the same age as my oldest son. He joined the military after high school, because he loved his country. His father and grandfather had been in the military before him. We live in a rural, upstate NY area, where there aren't a lot of jobs. My impression is that, being a minority from a "middle class" family, he knew there were no jobs available unless he had a college education. And having nine siblings, there may not have been a lot of extra cash for college. These were the factors that led this young man into the military, not a desire to kill anyone.

My son's friend, from school and scouts, got blown to bits in Iraq. His young widow told my son that the "biggest" body part recovered was one of his hands.

I'm 100% opposed to the bush policy in Iraq. But I am not 100% opposed to the children I remember from my son's grade school classes and scout camp-outs, who for a variety of reasons that have NOTHING to do with the homicidal impulses you describe, join the military.

But they are putting their lives on the line to protect America. I mean yeah, they might be doing that because they need schooling, and some of them may not have the cleanest of moral characters, but they have to be willing to place their bodies between their fellow citizens and this nations enemies.

Now you might argue, as I'm sure many will, that this conflict in Iraq isn't about protecting America (and I would, more or less, agree with you), but you don't get to choose if you are a soldier. You go where your sent.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

you know I've heard this for a few years now.......How are we defending America by getting killed in Iraq??
Nothing has been proven.......it was all a big LIE....

and as far as the military putting their lives on the line...BUSH put their lives on the line by invading Iraq......no ifs ands or buts about it.....

You mean the invasion of Iraq might have been under flase pretenses? It might have been a ghastly mistake? It might have cost our soldiers thier lives with no real purpose? Thank goodness you told me that, since I would have had no way of knowing that other wise.

There are two perspectives here. One is a top down perspective in which clearly President Bush and his advisors made terrible mistakes and commited gross deceptions in getting us into Iraq. Not only did they lie toget us in there, but they failed to plan what would happen once we got there.

The Second perspective is that of a soldier in a recruiting office, or an individual soldier. Whether or not he's used correctly (and just in case I haven't been clear enough, President Bush has largely not used our soldiers correctly), he is willing to put his life on the line to defend Americans.

Bryant

ADVANCE AN AGENDA THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THEIR, THEIR FAMILIES', THEIR COMMUNITIES', THEIR COUNTRY'S OR ANYONE'S BEST INTERESTS. THEY ARE BEING HORRIFICALLY MISUSED AND ABUSED.

Never mind they are commiting atrocities DAILY "under orders." :shrug:

Some joined the army for education, lack of employment opportunities, or because they saw it as their duty. And some might even "be itching to go kill me some Iraqis" but I dare to say that those are in the minority.

It was Bush and his neo-cons who started that illegitimate war.

We have DUers here who have loved ones and friends fighting in Iraq. To suggest that all soldiers were just joining to kill Iraqis is beyond insensitive.

not supporting the war, but I have a hard time with what 'not supporting the troops " means.

Is is simply not supporting this war or this administration, or is it something more along the lines of being okay with their deaths? Is it more active, like writing your elected Representatives and urging them not to send adequate food, and body armor? Or urging them to cut their benefits and combat pay? Does one feel some sort of relief or joy every time another young American is needlessly killed? Does one write LTE calling for the deaths of more American soldiers?

Or is it simply not caring about what happens to them one way or the other? I honestly do not understand what one does to not support the troops.

Politicians like Bush start the wars. There are exceptions, but our military is not made of monsters. Surely _someone_ in your family has been in the military at some point in time. They're just ordinary Americans trying to earn a living, and the military is always hiring.

That they are playing with not only you and the public at large but the troops as well.
They hold the moral of the troops hostage and dare you to say something so they can humiliate you and make you feel guilty.
And I wanted to say that even if we had a draft that took equally from all stratums of life there would always be that ten percent that would love the violence of war and conflict. Just like the poor, we always have them with us.
But the difference is that with a draft enough of the moral and sensible people are there to discourage the ten percent form just becoming criminal.

Its not a question of ignorance or stupidity. Its just that some people have not yet had enough experience or contact with things to be able to see things the way you do. For many they believe that by serving their country they are giving their life over to something greater than themself. They are putting their life on the line for all of us.

The trouble is that the world may not conform to how they see it. Where they look to elected leaders as individuals to be trusted you see lying tyrants bent on world domination. If your page is the more accurate realization of reality then they have been duped. Their intentions are true if not their vision.

You can support the individual and hope for their safety if not their actions and mission. The individual is in harms way and nobody should be there. But they choose to be there because they believe you would be in harms way if they were not.

I'd like to thank you and bryant69 for your insight on this emotional topic. The two of you did a great job of responding to this. I appreciate reading your posts.

My brother is an officer in the US Navy. He's a professional who joined the service as a career long before there was any hint of a coming war in Iraq.

Your feeling sorry for some and resenting others based on your assumptions about their motivations makes no difference to anyone but yourself, and frankly strikes me as a bit vain.

If it's 51% who want to whack some towelheads, would you support the troops 49%?

The point is, we don't know what the individual motives are for sure. So the question is, do you give the troops the benefit of the doubt?

As hard as it is after Abu Gharib, accountability must be given at the top ranks. By not "supporting the troops" - or by focusing your attention on the troops, you're only giving the higher-ups a free pass & and providing a distraction from the real discussion of POLICY - leaving them with an opening to discuss PATRIOTISM (their favorite distraction from accountibility).

So while I respect your feelings, it really is in the best interest of those opposing the war to focus on the policymakers. That's why I say "the troops" get the benefit of the doubt & I truly don't believe is is a majority who have that attitude - but a loud minority that seems to grab all the attention.

GET THEM THE HELL OUT OF IRAQ!