Photos of children being raped at Abu Ghraib coming out soon.

Even our Pravda media can't hide this forever. The next few weeks should bring the end of BushCo. We will see. This should shake people out of their sleep. It should shake them to pieces.

Lots of posts about this, so here's the links. I just thought there needs to be an implicit headline about this. Raping children is the end of the world.

---------------------------

Photos of children being abused at Abu Ghraib coming out soon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x545517

Seymour Hersh: "You haven't begun to see evil..."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1766518

"I can't remember if I've seen the memo or not."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1768201

State Dept. Warned White House on Torture
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x616455

Use of Dogs to Scare Prisoners Was Authorized
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x615999

:cry:

:cry:

I don't want to see it, and I'd rather it hadn't happened in my name and with my money. But since it apparently has, let's see it. Hiding, denial, and covering up does us absolutely no good. I want every last bit of it to come out, and I want all the particulars. This has been done in my name with my tax dollars, and I deserve every last scrap of information -- I don't give a flying fuck about the perpetrators' "privacy" or "rights". We'll sort that out in a court of law later.

Because right now, I am in greater danger from hostile reaction to these crimes than I have ever been. I need to know everything I can about the situation to best protect myself. Now.

i tell them, i watch it all look at it all and i cry, and feel heaviness in chest, and since i am voting who is in office to make these decisions, it is my obligation and resposnsibility to see. if they cannot look at the pictures, the dead babies, the exhaustions on soldiers faces and their pains, the torture, if they cant even look, then they lose their right to vote

this is evil. this is why i believe Michael Ruppert's analysis of what is happening. the spooks have to know that we, as a country, are in crisis.

The leaking of memos and info is being done methodically and there is MORE to come for sure.

This is a play by the intel agencies to bring Bushco. down and they know EXACTLY what they are doing. Do not think for a minute that the leaked memo this week, which seemed to be overshadowed by the Reagasm wasn't done RIGHT ON SCHEDULE. It's part of the plan. They've got the serious goods on these criminals and it's all coming out in the proper time and when it will do the maximum amount of damage. This is a well planned operation. All the pieces will be there. All the shocking footage will come out. It will undeniably lead right to the top. It's all part of the plan. Bushco. has no idea what's coming next or from where, but it's coming.

the traps are all is place and only now are they revealing them, one by one.

there will be a torrent the next few weeks. the Plame indictments will be out soon. i believe that.

the spooks, while calculated in ways i cannot fathom, must know that we are running out of time.

you guys are right.... I don't know if I could possibly stomach the pictures myself but the truth has got to be put out there. All we hear from the Freeps is 3,000 dead; 9/11; 3,000 dead; 9/11; 3,000 dead; 9/11; - well you know I would much rather be dead than to have been one of these childrens' mother - or the child. This is absolutely beyond dispicable - and any and each soldier that had a part in this needs to be sentenced to death, only I wish there could be some other worse punishment. Something to do with their own children perhaps..... even I couldn't go that far but this is cruelty and evilness beyond my comprehension. I can't imagine what the apologists will have to say about this - certainly its not just frat boy behavior this time.....

They got Ashcroft on record in the Senate. That record will be contradicted by what's going to come out. We will see the President's "orders" regarding the interrogation of prisoners and the dots will be connected.

Think about what's happening. There are leaked documents that are coming out regarding policy coming from the top down. There is the testimonly from the soldiers going from the bottom up. They will inexorably meet in the middle at some point and it will be a clear chain from bottom to top and top to bottom. The pieces are coming together and it's being done methodically.

...the DIA, a strong faction of the FBI/DoJ, a strong segment of senior military officers, non-NeoCon civilians in the Pentagon, and a faction of the press that owes their allegiance to the CIA, have all joined the fun.

It's getting more interesting by the day.

Please be right. :cry: This is so horrendous. OUR country???? tortured children????!!!! :nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::grr::grr::grr::grr:

I cannot put into words how pissed off I am right now! :nuke:

A nice, bloodless, sanity-restoring coup d'etat to sort make up for the ugly, bloodless, INsanity-inducing coup we had in Nov/Dec 2000.

Bring on the leaks!!

I want to see no memoirs from Jr or any of his cabal. I want them to see justice, first hand, at the end of a hangman's noose in Leavenworth.

doing it suddenly is too garish and crass, it's almost imperceptible in slo mo

Nixon's last year in office? It was 2-star general Al Haig. When Watergate was over, he was appointed to the head of NATO, a 4-star position, as his reward for helping to clean up the mess. He was jumped over quite a few generals who were ranked higher than Haig was.

Did you also know that the guy that carries the nuclear codes was assigned to someone else during that last year?

There was also an order that went out to all major military commands to "disregard all orgers from the Commander-in-Chief".

The idea behind the slow removal of Nixon was to ensure that the people didn't get too adgitated, that the structures of government appeared to be sound and still functioning as they should.

again, wow!

Thanks for adding that, DU'ers are the best& brightest. :)

Anyone know what book that info is in?

...stationed at one of our "listening posts" overseas. I'm pretty sure you won't see that in any book.

I have had that confirmed over the years by similar sources, some who had been in other branches of the service.

night before Ashcroft was to appear before the Senate Committee. Coincidence? I think NOT! Just watching the timing and content of the leaks and how they influence events shows me that the coordination of the leaks to the three most read papers, NYT, WP and WSJ, are designed to:

1. First, bring to the publics attention a wrongdoing by the bush admin, forcing them to make a statement denying what is being reported

2. A further series of leaks shows their denials to be lies

3. A new leak that takes the wrongdoing further up the chain forcing more denials and then more proof of lies.

The coordination is from more than one agency for sure.

n/t

The rule in Washington is "get it all out". The trickling of bad news is like a cliffhanger that just feeds the media.

Child rape will be the END of the Bush junta. And they've got President Bush on record approving it (approving torture and humiliation tactics)!!!!!

Rumsfeld is sure to fall when this hits 60 minutes. Powell really screwed up by fining Viacom so heavily. I'm convinced that Viacom is now at war with the Bush administration.

Both of whom have been fighting the good fight as of late...Thankfully!!

I admit it, I'm not brave enough to see these photos. People who commit atrocities like this are monsters, our disgraceful social end-products. :cry:

,...mere words are sufficient to make our hearts terribly heavy. :cry:

Torturing women and children is beyond reprehensible.

The conspiracy to commit and cover-up war crimes must now be fully unveiled.

this is the worst yet. there dare not call raping children "abuse."

abuse does not hurt to read like rape hurts to read.

"bush authorized raping of child as a torture method"

there's you're fucking headline, NYTimes. enjoy your weekend in the East Hamptons, you complicit lapdog nazi motherfuckers.

burn in your hell, forever.

evil pricks made out, but how can pictures of children being abused be publicized? They MUST make certain that the kids are in no way identifiable but the criminals in the picture must be hi-def crystal clear with their names in 72 font!

Unbelievable. I feel numb just reading the thread title.

I blame bush*.

i don't think i could see it, even censored. i didn't watch the berg video and this is a million times worse.

children. i can't get over it. nothing worse than this.

:cry:

I cannot remove the lump in my throat, the boulder in my belly and the ache in my chest.

:cry:

They covered-up the torture of children.

:cry:

God, help those poor kids!!!

For some sick reason, unless people see the image they can't fathom the horror.

Which is why Rummy was so upset over digital cameras, cdroms and the 'net more so than the actual torture.

Disgusting.

I am with you though, I can't watch. Just the thought of having somebody do this to my babies makes me ill.

If indeed these images come out, I expect the republicans to stop shielding this band of lawless degenerate thugs and restore the rule of law to this land.

now we find out that "Jr" had them also. How freaking horrid! Bye bye Bush.

*LIBERATION* supposed to put an end to these things!? WTF!!!

What degree of atrocity will it take to FINALLY wake up the American people??

Why weren't those photos shown in the private viewing sessions a few weeks ago? I always have a hard time believing things that are this incendiary without having rock-solid proof to back up the claim.

and that the ones that HAVE been released, look like a day at the park. many of them were visibly shaken when they walked out of the viewing room. maybe this is why

I think if the photos were that horrid, then at least one Senator would have said something.

from viewing the material, and another of Shiela Jackson Lee, and they looked VERY stern. Nancy Pelosi looked FURIOUS. Her eyes were blazing.

Shiela Jackson Lee looked very, very somber, and quiet.

One knew whatever it is had to be bad, seeing their faces.

has all of the pictures. They saw more than had been released to the public, but I don't think all.

Initial reports on the story describe that some members involved had been passing a number of CDRoms full of pictures around via the internet (sending them back to the home base, as well as among themselves) for MONTHS before it was leaked.

Then there were discussions among Rummy and others debating whether or not to go public with the pictures - and a point pushing for disclosure was that more and more pictures kept coming to light - and they were going to get out there eventually. Gave me the impression that the didn't KNOW if they had all of the picture.

Hersh was talking to leakers - not just those involved in the official investigation - and may have gotten access (through off the record channels) to some of those that had not yet made their way to the Pentagon investigation.

The Congressional viewing of the pictures was relatively early in the scandal. It is all together possible that some of the worst of the worst had not yet been found/discovered/entered into the official investigation (and thus part of the viewing.)

that he's seen the pictures. He's not ready to print the article yet, but there aren't many more reliable sources than Hersh.

and we're the good guys." Yup, it's not going to wash.

I'm not sure it will be helpful in exposing broad torture program.

It will likely reinforce false impression that torture is by and large a case of a few bad apples rather than a systematic program of subverting human rights and international law hatched by high-level federalist society cabal of civilians in the upper echelons of defense, justice, and state departments.

They're "coming soon," right? Do we have any confirmation that they're real? Sounds like, from the Hersh article anyways, that it might be hearsay.

We need confirmation.

Hearsay? How so?

I do trust Hersh, but how would he have seen ALL the pictures? Are his contacts that good? It seems like he may have someone in the CIA or Miltary Intelligence who is handing this stuff to him--how else did he write that story about the secret operations going on in Traq?

...cultivation and never betraying a source by name unless given permission to do so.

If Seymour say they exist you can take it to the bank, baby.

of rape of children come out and bush is still in the race (has a chance at winning) then we know a large section of the American people have little to no conscience. Their ideology comes before everything.

First of all it will be spun AWAY from Bush and the sheeple will believe it. I'm sure they already have a fall person set up.

Second - I have seen polls that indicate most americans SUPPORT torture of "terrorists".

This is part of the reason this nation is so screwed.

Sorry, it's wildly inappropriate to be flippant about this but it was either be flippant or scream. I have no words that sufficiently express my outrage at the demonic acts of this administration.

Raping children. What have we wrought?

....while the cameras rolled..........


just to be clear

I just do not believe I would ever, ever be able to completely close that wound.

GOD. :cry:

from witnessing something that depraved. Heaven help them all.

and the age of the prisoners children has not been indicated.
people seem to be assuming they are minors but not obvious to me.

kind of makes one assume so. Otherwise, why mention it?

that was context in which word was used by Hersch

Won't Ashcroft be able to STOP these photos from being published.

Technically, such photos would be considered child pornography. Therefore, anyone in possesion of those photos (other than law enforcement) could be prosecuted.

So the public will have to suffice with "descriptions" of the photos. This might minimize the impact since the media LOVES "art". Descriptions don't do so well.

Anyone in possession of them other than gov officials could be looking at a couple of felony counts. I would be VERY surprised if child pornography was released by the US gov to the citizenry. Nor would I approve of it even in this case.

So you are saying it should be ok to release child pornography to the general populace?

Geezus, this is getting sicker by the minute! Why were children at the prison anyway? We need to not only impeach these SOBs but try them for being the war criminals they are. Let them all hang for their sins!

BUSH YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS!!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr:

.. the just took them out of houses and off the streets. Remember the info about the 14 year old boy being abused, and the father being abused in front of the boy? They marched the naked, abused father up to the son with a hood on his head.. and when they took it off, and the kid realized it was his father, he fainted.

These are extremely vile, sick people.. they do these things to ordinary Iraqis because they enjoy it... There was protocol on how to do these things, and they just went with it. Perhaps the photo should be realease of the elderly naked woman who was sexually abused and ridden like a donkey by the military men. On edit: I mean LITERALLY ridden like a donkey, that's not a sexual euphanism.

if so, why?

different! I see! Wow, how could I take offence at that! Geez, unbelievable.

I just think that many folks here seem to have assumed the victims are children as in kids rather than children as in sons and daughters of prisoners of whatever age.

<sigh> :nuke:

Certainly it is abohorrent and criminal in any event.
But the discussion is about likely reaction to photos.
Would not photos of rape of a 5 year old produce a somewhat different reaction than photos of rape of a 20 year old?
Perhaps I should not have brought it up, but I've been puzzled why folks are assuming the victims are kids.

that this was done to elicit information from the parents makes this even worse (Please don't flame me, this whole thing is horrific, I just don't know how to express degree of horror eloquently. :( ).

These young adults, teenagers, children whatever term you wish to use, are hapless innocent victims being used as tools.

Evil.

There have been previous reports of a 14 year old boy being raped by an Iraqi guard while being filmed by US guards. Is that abhorrent enough for you? I find your supposition that rape of an 18 year old should be less horrifying that that of one younger to be horrifying in itself.

The way I understood the point was that the general public would be more horrified at the rape of a 5 year old than an older child.

Unfortunately I think this is a valid supposition.

It is all so horrifying and evil.

I never meant to suggest otherwise.

children = kids.

Pedophiles
Torturers sadists,bullies.They have no soul no empathy no sanity.THese people because of what they do and how they get thier "pleasures" are incompatible with any sort of freedom or human relationships..I hate toturers,Including the ones in the military and corporations. I wish there was some way to END this culture that tolerates bullying forever,End rape end torture end sadism,abuse, and manipulation,end the lies and mindgames of control freaks.Silence the narcissists and restrain those who take from others what is not thiers,by force or by manipulation and violatethe consent of the person they steal from.

Bushco are truly a bunch of scum richboy sociopaths, the worst of them because they can convoince people they are good while they destroy the good..Bushco and practically every other bully leader scum use fake appearances of'normal'and the huge state apparatus and corporate old boy network to cover up what they really are.

to hell with 'leadership' and 'power' it is corruption to the character of humanity and this mythos of power the power broker will destroy us all unless we topple them off thier pyramids.And NEVER build another leader out of an over-ambitious human being.
I'm so mad I can't stand it.

I still don't see where we know that pics are coming out. Hersh only heard about these pics....right?

However I still don't see how this translates in to entering the public domain.

Does SH and other reporter/media outlets have copies?

If indeed there are video and pictures of children being raped, this admin is in huge trouble.

I think these guys are just evil enough to OK something like this, and then destroy the evidence.

they lost control of this one a while back.

Why haven't they leaked?

Tells you something about the strength of the corporate media.

I smell a major cover-up. Someone leaks a photo, they lose their job...and perhaps more.

Gestapo tactics are at work in Bush's Amerika. Think about it...1000s of digital photos at a major newspaper and not ONE has been leaked without corporate media permission.

The same reason they did these things to adults. Get the goods on them so they would force these children to become spies.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that this administration is trying to recreate the government of "1984" in EVERY way shape and form.

They call it "The Handbook".

Babioes being raped certainly would trump bin Laden being captured, except with the rightwingnut Christian faction, of course, due to their high standards of "Family Values".

It's child porn.

will not harm the bush administration. He will be shielded and the public will forgive him again as they have the thousand times before for the thousand crimes he has committed against our nation.

The quote is "horrible things done to children of women prisoners, as the cameras run."

A minor point that doesn't change the thrust of the argument, but let's stick with what we know (unless there's a "rape" quote that I'm not aware of).

...a stretch is it to believe that children have also been raped?

Focus shifts to jail abuse of women
<http://www.ccmep.org/2004_articles/iraq/051204_focus_shifts_to_jail_abuse_of_wo.htm>

Excerpt:

"According to Prof Shaker, several women held in Abu Ghraib jail were sexually abused, including one who was raped by an American military policeman and became pregnant. She has now disappeared.

Most of the coverage of the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib has focused on Iraqi men. But there is compelling evidence that several female prisoners, who are in a minority at the jail, were abused as well."


Systematic Pattern of Rape by US Forces
<http://www.ccmep.org/2004_articles/iraq/060604_rape.htm>

Excerpt:

"Well publicized images of US soldiers torturing and humiliating male Iraqi prisoners may be overshadowing evidence gathered by several human rights groups and Pentagon investigators indicating US military personnel have raped and sexually abused Iraqi women held at Abu Ghraib prison and other detention facilities.

Amal Kadham Swadi, an Iraqi attorney representing women detainees, told The Guardian she believes that sexualized violence and abuse committed by US soldiers against female prisoners goes far beyond a few isolated cases. It’s 'happening all across Iraq,' she said."


NEW PoW TORTURE CLAIMS ROCK COALITION
<http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14226216&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=new-pow-torture-claims-rock-coalition-name_page.html>

Excerpt:

"Labour MP Alice Mahon said: 'This sickening twist to this already horrific tale diminishes us all. The news that Iraqi women and children were raped is a truly horrifying turn for the worse.'"

Here is link to yesterday's blog account of Hersch speaking at U of Chicago. As far as I know, this is the only source for Hersch account of horrible things done to children. If there are other sources, please post them!

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2004_archives/000987.html

Also, its Hersch not Hersh!

alluded to what was going on. The message was there but we failed to read between the lines.

no C

Thanks. I was confused.

Man, Im thinking things I dont think I should post.

where I would be so ashamed to be an American.

It is time for Bu$hler and his cronies to be removed from office. We can no longer tolerate their crimes and abuses of power. This is beyond ridiculous.

I want MY America back. They have had over three years to fuck this country up. ENOUGH. America must wake up.

...this guy out of a job. It won't last forever...he always finds a way to do damage wherever he is...but it's time for Dr. Frankenstein to get out of the mainstream and go back to his lab.

That's the important thing. To get them to an international court that can investigate WHO allowed this to happen.

Seymour Hersh: "You haven't begun to see evil..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&a...

I am sick. I can't believe this.

How does a man manage to get an erection in order to rape
a male child in front of that child's mother and a camera person?
It seems to be that the rapist must be a pedophile in order to
engage in this act.

btw I was reported a few months ago that there are not only photos of these act but Videos. The Pentagon and Congress have possesion of both. Over 1K photos were presented to 60Min.2 and they picked the least offensive to air, leaving the American public with the impression that what wnet on was mainly "humiliation" and the acts of a "few bad apples."

but the drugs that are given to the soldiers probably induce all kinds of violent behavior characteristics - remember all the soldiers coming back from Afghanistan killing their wives. Rape is not lust, it is violence.

If the photos/videos do come to the light of the media, we can only hope this will turn on BushCo for all to undergo criminal action against them, in our courts as well as the global court.

My guess is that 99% of the evil captured on film will NEVER reach eyes outside the Pentagon/Corproate Media.

George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld are WAR CRIMINALS.

We've got to get word out about this and pressure for JUSTICE and truth, no matter how ugly it is.

Can't believe that - it's pure horror!

...media. And if the DIA or CIA has copies, you can bet your last dollar that the press will get them soon enough.

If what I believe is happening is true, the folks that are leaking all of these dociments and pics/videos understand that they will need to hold some back for the last two months prior to the election. Between now and then, we'll just get a steady stream of a few here and few there.

The Press HAS them. The Washington Post received 1000s of images back when this broke.

If they were going to leak, I'd think they'd be out by now.

No one wants to lose their job. And the Corporate Media is throwing down the lid.

I hope I'm wrong but it doesn't look good to me.

...a little at a time over the next few months.

Strategically speaking, you don't want to release them all at once because the public has an attention span similar to the length of the news segments they're fed every day.

The proven way to do this is to release them a little every day so that the public begins to retain the information. By Election Day, everyone will remember the information.

The corporate media sure has been doing some odd things lately to be "throwing down the lid". I think you're forgetting that a very large portion of the media is controlled by the CIA (do a search for Operation Mockingbird), and I'm also sensing that some of the major corporate backers are no longer convinced FratBoy is up to the job.

Bush's version of Democracy

This seems too strong for the media. They'd be crucified for releasing it, even if someone sends it to them.

...be screaming about their release will be the ones that have bought into all of the NeoCon baloney.