What's the incentive for being a good person?

Where are the rewards? Hey, if you think it'll get you into heaven then fine - whatever works (and I'm not one to say different). What about the rest of you? There's rarely a clear or immediate payoff. You leave yourself vulnerable to get stepped on by bullies and taken advantage of by the very people we're sometimes trying to help. Most business/career success is achieved by cutting corners & stepping on toes - rarely do you hear "That Rucky is a good person - let's promote HIM". It's treated more like a liability.

So where's the payoff?

Being a "good person" hasn't ever gotten me anything but the word "doormat" tattooed on my forehead. It's cost me a LOT of money and heartache; I don't know, honestly, why I even bother anymore.

in a situation and that it was a good thing I did enables me to "live" with myself. Self respect is worth more than anything in the world, and that comes with being a good person.

Self-respect comes from knowing you have worth as a person, that you gave something to contribute. That sense doesn't develop if ou're constantly being told that other people are better than you, constantly being help up to a standard of action made by people you don't know, onstantly being told while you're growing up that the reason people pick on you i because you're just different and if you don't want to get picked on you need to be more like everyone else.

Sorry about that. I've been in a real bad mood the past few days.

Yeah, that's exactly how I was raised, too. Self-respect is something I know very little about.

I was lucky to be raised by idealists. We never had a lot of money, but my parents never tried to bullshit me. I was aware of my mortality before I started kindergarten.

Adolescence sucked, my twenties sucked. I managed to work full-time and earn a Liberal Arts degree. I've been jeered and ostracized for my views, but I kept plugging away at reading and learning.

Be aggressive, but keep quiet until you have your facts straight.

If you find yourself in a corner, go for the nuts.

I'm 38 now, and I'm stable; I live in a lower-middle class urban neighborhood. I have a garden, books, Internet, and a sweet wife who doesn't really understand me...my first wife didn't understand me either, but she wasn't sweet.

It took years of humiliation and periods of self-doubt, but I'll never be the basket case I once was.

Hang in there, and avoid discussing sex, politics, and religion at work...it's a sure fire way to create friction.

You may have been too nice. Being good doesn't require door mat status. I also learned that lesson. I am a good person but I am not particularly nice.

really learned how to be mean.

but I know enough to know I can't stop being this way.

sometimes it's easier to change your environment than to change yourself.

and letting people walk all over you. Being a good person means that you don't take advantage of other people, and when somebody tries to take advantage of you, you politely but firmly tell them it won't be allowed.

Acquaintances can take advantage of you only with your permission.

To me, the adjective "good", implies that you have already decided that the behavior you are referring to has certain rewards, or you wouldn't call it "good".

Simple enough, but seldom followed, especially by the current administration.

...is a good life.

:thumbsup:

everyday with being a good person but that does not mean you have to be a doormat. Being good has more to do with integrity and self respect and striving to make things better for everyone, not just yourself. You have to be able to say no and mean it or you will become that doormat because not everyone feels that being a good person is important.

If you think there is, then you're doing the right things for the wrong reasons.

Doing something good with the expectation of being rewarded is cheap, silly, and immature.

Doing the good deed is its own reward.

unless we allow it. what is vulnerable. so many years i was totally opposed to being vulnerable. got married. and decided part of union was to allow myself to be vulnerable. once i became vulnerable what i found, it didnt exsist. i was no longer protecting self and found, there was nothing there to protect. wasted energy

it may not be evident immediately good responsible choice has a pay back, but in the 42 years i clearly see a pattern that yes there is absolutely a pay off. it is an universal energy thing. if you feel hate, you have that within self that is what you see and bring to self to experience.

if there is not hate, and someone behaves poorly to me, i know it is that persons experience and creation and has nothing to do with me, cause hey, i work in love and not an intent to hurt another. i just dont. and with that knowledge i can experience that persons pain in love and understanding, not taking personally and generally always,....it is not painful to me. and is the others to learn the lesson of the pain they create for self.

if i am feeling pain, then i may ask, what is it i need ot learn in this event.

those i am dealing with. i love them. i love my two boys i love my huband i love the man in the street asking for money. i love my freeper father and two brothers, i love the fundie that is so confused

There is no pay off , and that is the point
it's an internal gage for me as a human being .

which is my definition of 'the soul.'

Your soul can live forever if you are referred to by generations to come.

then you've lost what it means to be a human being on this planet.

This is strictly my own philosophy, so I don't mean to lecture. IMO, concepts like courtesy, manners, good humor, charity and empathy are what differentiate us from lower life forms. If you're unhappy with the way people treat you when you're being a good, decent human being, perhaps it is because, as a society, we're no longer modeling those good attributes.

Bad behavior is everywhere -- in the media, in partisan politics, on the street, in the workplace, and in our homes. And this behavior is what our children see and learn from. The only way society can become more civil is if we model civility -- our children only learn from what is modeled for them.

This doesn't mean that we shouldn't fight for what we believe is right and fair and just for the greater good of society -- we should fight like hell for those goals.

But, be an example -- it won't always have payoffs, but somewhere down the line, some good will come from it -- even if you don't know about it.

on edit: typos

A personal story - I once had to deal by phone with a very nasty, rude person. She was a client of my company and I was office manager. My strategy was to treat her with humor, kindness, and patience. Before long, she was dealing with me the same way. Maybe the next person she dealt with also came away with a better experience. I hope so. Anyway, even if she had not responded (and the first few times she did not), I came away in a lot better mood than I would have if I'd been as nasty as she was.

So, (in reply to the original post) in my experience, the "reward" is your own improved life experience. Everyone is in control of their own reactions. You can make life better for yourself AND others, or you can make it worse. It's your own decision.

What a world it might be if everyone decided to make the best of every situation.

I have spent most of my life working for Croesus-like rich people. Most of the ones who made their fortunes on their own, weren't really happy, but they would never admit it nor ask forgiveness for the things they did to get rich. Many in old age abuse drugs and alcohol and the medical professionals don't stop them.

I noticed that many of the children or heirs of these people often try to break with the old folks, getting jobs and trying to live like ordinary people, or going off and joining the Peace Corp or getting involved with religious cults to get away from the toxic atmosphere they were raised in. Most don't stick it out and come back into the fold. They too often will get into substance abuse and other bizarre behavior their money allows them to.

Now, there are rich people who didn't cheat and steal legally, to get rich and these are the ones who can enjoy their money. They are also the ones who are the philanthropists of our society because they know they have to give back some, not just for tax breaks either. These people can enjoy life with a fairly clear conscience.

on your day and then being able to comfortably drift off...

Is there nothing more satisfying than watching someone who deserves a karma sandwich, finally get theirs?

Watch Bush* to see the theory in motion.

It takes work, but by being a nice person and making sure that many people see you that way and understand that you're kind and generous and open-minded, you can completely open a can of whup-ass on selected jerks and the general opinion will be "Wow.. what did that jerk do to piss off Sagan so much? He's usually such a nice guy, the jerk must REALLY be a jerk.."

:)

And I am not trying to be 'jesus-like' or whatever. But I think some people are born bad if you will and some born good. Maybe it is old fashioned but I do think there are naturally good as well as evil people.

Knowing that I've done no harm to others, and just maybe, have helped make someone else's day a little better.

Business and career sucess rates VERY LOW on my scale of the important things in life.

Sometimes things become cliches because they are true.

You asked an excellent & important question it in personal terms, likewise the responses. I found that that's more academically oriented, but still looks really helpful for anybody. I was googling stuff for this and found what looks like a good psychology-oriented website, even though it's pretty academicallyoriented. Part of it is called Writing Your Own Philosophy of Life. Here are a few snippets from a page called Being Good is Hard:

http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap3/chap3f.htm

...Moral behavior is determined by five factors: (1) Socialization: becoming aware as a child of society's and parents' rules of conduct for being good. (2) Moral judgment: learning to think reasonably about our own ethics and deliberately deciding on our own moral standards. (3) Moral feelings: the internalization of our moral beliefs to the degree that we feel shame and guilt when we fail to do what we "should." (4) Empathy: the awareness of other people's situation, feelings, and needs so that one is compelled to help those in need. (5) Confidence and knowledge: knowing the steps involved in helping others and believing that one is responsible for and capable of helping.
<snip>

You can...decide on the basic goals and ethical principles that will direct your life day by day, moment by moment. You can do this within a few hours. It could be a very important achievement. The next section of this chapter will help you write your philosophy of life and learn how to live by that philosophy. Here is an overview of what we will be covering:
<snip>

1)Become aware of Kohlberg and others' stages of normal moral development. In what stages are you right now? Make notes; 2)Consider Morris's 13 ways of living. Which ways appeal to you the most? 3)What principles should guide your life? Think about who has lived life closest to your ideals. Buddha? Jesus? Albert Schweitzer? Lincoln? Martin Luther King? A great scientist? A good leader? A caring, helpful person in your community? One of your parents? Why did you make that choice? What are the implications for your philosophy? 4)Resolve the conflicts among your basic values, such as between seeking personal happiness vs. doing good for others. Does this establish your top priority? 5)Write your own philosophy of life--a clear explicit statement of important guiding principles. Not just something that sounds lofty, but realistic, honest guidelines you will try to live by every hour of every day. 6)Learn to live according to your highest chosen values, which will test your "will" and require many of the skills described throughout this book.

Here's the table of contents page:
http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap3/chap3f.htm