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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 08:47 AM
Original message
About the Taliban
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 08:56 AM by rpannier
Recently, with the John Walker Lindh conviction reaching its year anniversary, I decided to wax a little bit about the rise of the Taliban.
When Pakistani vehicles were robbed by the Muhajadeen Warlords (the guys who run the country now) the Pakistani government hired these young radicals (the Taliban) to get their goods shipped north. Anyone who tried to rob the vehicles were shot.
The Taliban eventually made their move for power, with the backing of the Pakistani government, aided by the indifference of the world community.
These young Taliban fighters were educated in local Wahabi lead schools (funded by the Saudi and Kuwati Royal familes). What they learned was, how to fight, that women were second class people (actually women were not even good enough to be second class), homosexuals should be executed for being homosexual, etc.
When the Taliban seized power, in a surprisingly easy war -- that's what happens when you're disciplined and organized and they (the Muhajadeen) are not, they set up the Wahabi Islam, women are third class citizens, destroy centuries old Buddhist carvings, execute homosexuals, no radios, music or t.v.'s, etc.
I've been to Afghanistan twice since the fall of the Taliban. At first, people were very pleased to have them gone and they still are. But, most people miss the stability they (the Taliban) brought. In the end, the disappointment I hear from Afghani's reminds me of a quote from M*A*S*H, when Col. Potter told Hawkeye, "These people expected a lot from you. Having your hopes dashed is 100 times worse than no hope at all." The US brought hope and never delivered. Why? Because this administration was more interested in Iraq, than the war on Terror.
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 08:50 AM
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1. They got their fucking Pipe line
That’s what this was really about right ?
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 08:54 AM
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2. We only went in for the pipeline. A puppet was installed as
the president. There were never enough troops to hold the entire country, just the capital and the pipeline route. As in Iraq, a country at war with American troops hanging around makes sure those oil and pipeline contracts stay pro-America.

I sure hope there is a very special hell for leaders of countries that do this kind of thing to their own people or other people like Bush is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 08:56 AM
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3. What part of Afghanistan were you in?
And who were you with?
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I was in
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 09:04 AM by rpannier
Kabul, Herat and Towraghondi (on the Iranian border) the first time. The second time, Kabul, Meydan-Sharar, was going to go to Gardiz and Khowst, but I was advised it was not safe. First time it was joint investigation between RFA and IAS (Institute for Asian Security). The second time just with IAS.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I guess we can assume we do not have control of the area ?
Or any area except Kabul? Is that correct? You know , I would have thought Taliban supporters would have looked at John Walker Lindh as a "hero" of sorts? But that is not true, is that correct?
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. John Lindh
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 09:19 AM by rpannier
is an after thought to many who know of the Taliban (no one's going to say to me "Oh, I'm a member of the Taliban and I think...). Lindh was no more significant to their cause than any other dead or non-functioning member of the Taliban. You must remember, he cut a deal with the US government -- a huge "No, no" to the Taliban.
Travelling through any part of Afghanistan is risky. Even in Kabul, the control of the government is really only about 85%.
The rest of the country is a patchwork of overlord enclaves. Some, like Herat receive aid from Iran, some receive aid from the Saudi government, some just rely on selling opium. Afghanistan is really a series of independent states that are loosely under the term "Afghanistan." Two examples from history that illustrate this are, China prior to the communists and the United States during the Articles of Confederation.
The south and south-east are particularly unsafe and there is a lot of Taliban activity.
Outside of Herat, Kabul and the regions that border Turkmenistan, it is very unsafe for women or girls to travel unaccompanied (by heavily armed men). Women and girls are attacked, raped, kidnapped, sold into slavery, etc. In some areas it's hard to tell the difference between life under the Taliban and after the Taliban. It's still theocratic, abusive and oppressive.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. About as I thought.....
We left the war on terrorism and invaded Iraq. Now Afghanistan is a mess that was never cleaned up.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. For Your Repblican Friends and Enemies
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 09:32 AM by rpannier
Since you seem to have some interest in the region a thought to give your repub friends and enemies. I live in Korea and i read in papers and on the net how Clinton never did anything about Afghanistan (which is a lie). When I was in Kabul, a cleric who had been imprisoned by the Taliban said to my friends and me, "Bush doesn't seem to have a plan for after the war." Which I think was most telling. If bush had jumped into the war, like on Sep 13, I could have understood this. But, he waited. You would have thought they would have had a post-war strategy, yet none seems to be materializing -- so the country falls further into poverty and factionalism.
Maybe Clinton did not do anything (overly extreme) about Afghanistan because there was no good post-war strategy. That's what Great leaders do. They make decisions about war based on whether it's feasable to win the war and not have it blow up in your face later -- shrub in Afghanistan and iraq.
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