What is your economic definition of a "Middle Class" household?

When are you really "Poor"

When should you be spoken of as "Rich"

Should there be other definitions and what would they be?

Needless to say few can do that anymore...

Poor = living from paycheck to paycheck, renting (or homeless) IE 40% of the populace.

Rich = can afford an extra-large home, 2 late-model cars and an overseas pleasure trip once a year (or better)

I know this is subjective, but a given income buys a lot more or less depending on which part of the country you live in.

If you go into debt and discover that means you have less control over your life, that you have to accept less mony at a sure thing, rather than being able to take a chance doing something that could pay greater rewards, and if you find yourself giving up a lot of free time becuase you need to earn to stay in that house, then you have much less economic power than you realize.

n/t

If you're a doctor or lawyer, or whatever and you have no option but to get up every day, go to the office, earn your money (taxed at the higest rates we tax anything), then you're working class. If that work provides you with a lifestyle that allows you plenty of options about things like when to take vacations, where to send your kids to school, how you spend your free time, you're middle to upper middle class. If your work leaves you with few options and little political or cultural power, then you're working poor. If you can't even get a job. You're poor.

If you live off capital, and have a ton of options, and you don't live off of earned income, and you are the origin of political and ecnomic power and you are the source of other people's economic power, you're probably rich.

But these are also very fluid categories.

I think thought the bottom line is choices/options and power.

I think a lot of people living out in the suburbs in big houses, but who could be ruined by negative equity in their house, or losing a job, have much less power and fewer choices than they think they have. They may define wealth according to what they think they have without recognizing that they debt they've gone into to get those things works to give them much less power than if they didn't have those things.

If you can afford healthcare insurance, but cannot afford to put aside any savings, you are not middleclass.

does that make one "middle class"...or just lucky? lol

how much would your insurance be if you had to pay COBRA for 18 mo?
Good(and costly) insurance can be a blessing and a curse!

because you have to

eom

one of the issues that came up was the disparity between rich and poor.

We learned about the study (no link handy) where something like 19% of the US population believes they're in the top 2% of income earners.

We saw a documentary about "haves and have-nots" and the film-maker was interviewing people on the street.

Asked them if they thought they would be considered "middle class" based on income alone.

98% of the people interviewed said 'yes' to either being middle class, or upper middle class.

However, not one person who was interviewed made more than a combined household income of $60,000 a year.

$60,000 for (presumably) 2 adults and 1 or more children is hardly middle class.

$60k for one salary--definitely middle class
$60k for two salaries, no kids, probably lower-middle class
$60k for two salaries (or one salary) and kids--no way in hell.

Now--for your questions:

When are you really "poor"---when you can't afford Health Insurance, even when subsidized by your job, when you have no savings, when you realize that if you were out of work for 2 weeks (or god forbid more) with an injury or illness, that you would be homeless, or in alot of worry. When you can't afford to buy food for your family. When you can't make ends meet regardless of how many 'extras' you cut out of your life. When the only reason you can't get food-stamps or welfare is because you make $25 a week too much from working the 2 jobs you have to keep a roof over your head and your kids' belly full, but if you quit one of your jobs or cut down the hours, you'd be denied anyways for 'giving up viable employment' (what they told my mom when I was 8 and she, a single parent, made less than $10,000 a year BEFORE taxes)

When are you really rich---well, I think it's personal to the person. To me, I consider rich $50k a year individual earnings, because I"ve never made more than $30k in my life. But I would suppose that when you make enough to pay your bills, put into savings, etc.

I think being "rich" is never having that feeling of dred when you use your credit or debit card at the store because you're afraid that you didn't leave yourself enough wiggle room between paying rent and not getting paid for another 2 days but you need groceries and you can buy them if rent hasn't been cashed, adn the embarassment when your card comes up "DENIED" because in your heart of hearts you knew it would, and you make a flimsy excuse to the cashier that you've been having problems with the bank when in reality the problem is you don't make enough money to survive but are too embarssed to say so especially sinec everyone behind you in line is glaring at you and thinking "poor white trash bitch" and laughing inside at your inability to buy a box of tampax and some formula.

I consider our family solidly middle class. I'm a teacher and my husband is an information specialist. What I believe makes us middle class is that we make enough money to pay the bills, own our home, own two fairly new cars (a 1999 and a 2003) and have enough money left over after the bills to live fairly comfortably. We spend a lot on activities, vacations, and entertainment, but we also donate about 10% to charity in any given year. We don't save as much as we should, but could if we rearranged our priorities some.

If we lived somewhere with a higher cost of living, though, we would not have nearly the disposible income we do now.

at this point

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Just as it is snobbish and out of touch for many to think that they are rich, it is also snobbish and out of touch to call people who are not poor "poor". I am not talking to those of you who have had a turn of events (medical bills, job loss, failed small business) that leaves you with a lot of debt and a hard time making on it on less than $50,000 a year or something. I mean saying that people are poor when they are able to easily cover all their bills, buy most food that they would eat at a grocery store without coupons or sales, and not panic if a couple hundred dollar unexpected expense would come up. I know people who truly do face hunger, eviction/losing their house, and don't know how they are going to afford going to the doctor or new tires that they need. To call the first group poor is insulting to the second group.

I think if you have to choose between health, housing, or food ever you are certainly poor.

Unless you can afford housing, transportation, retirement, children, pets, some things like travel recreation, dining out etc - you aren't middle class - period.

Then there is rich and the wealthy

For one, there are regional variations, as some places are considerably more expensive than others. A 50K salary goes much further in a small Midwestern city than it does in NYC or Boston.

There are also variations among people's financial situations -- I know people who make pretty good salaries but have debt up the wazoo. My husband and I, in contrast, make fairly modest salaries (especially considering we both have advanced degrees) but we are very lucky to have no credit card debt, no car loans, and no student loans. Our only debt is our mortgage. We save about 10-20% of our income, and still manage to travel twice a year, eat out a couple of times a week, and buy lots of books.

So our salaries may put us in the lower middle class by some estimates, but we live a pretty solidly middle class lifestyle.