The 2004 Election - A Popular Referendum (Mandate?) On Facism?

I don't buy this notion that the American public does not know about the torture at Abu Ghuraib, the administration's involvment in authorizing the torture, or the lack of Iraqi involvement in 9/11. Newsweek, Time, MSNBC and the Washington Post have all run several stories on these subjects. Heck, the legal memos laying out the legal foundation for avoiding prosecution for war crimes are widely available, and who has not seen the photos from Abu Ghuraib? The information is out there, but people will believe what they want to believe. Put more simply, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him vote out the facists.

I see the 2004 election as a mandate on Facism. The American people know what they are getting into. If Bush is elected, then it is a mandate by the electorate that Bush can invade countries without justification, torture and kill the opposition, limit the liberties of Americans at home, eliminate environmental protections, privitize social security, and increase the deficit for the benefit of the richest Americans.

Frankly, if this nation follows the piper down the road to facism, its because Americans like the tune.

and admit how much that scared me, I moved on because I really didn't want to think about that

what is the saddest part, so half of the people in the country probably won't even vote. Do they not care? do they believe their vote won't make a difference? do they think the parties are just the same?

I don't get it

most people do care as long as they get what they want.

re-educating the people into believing that there is essentially no difference between the two parties, except that the Republican Party is somehow stronger than the Democratic. They have presented the Dems as essentially a watered-down version of themselves, and have taught people to associate liberalism with both anarchy and big government (try reconciling those two concepts in your head; only a Republican can do it!).

Unfortunately, the Democratic leadership seems to be all too willing to go along with this set of lies. Every time we get a genuine progressive candidate out there--McGovern, Dukakis, Kucinich--he is undermined by his own party's unwillingness to fight for him. Where were the Democrats when Florida polling sites were being mobbed by bused-in Republican agitators? They were in the corner, fretting about "chads". . . .

What we need is a candidate with Kucinich's conscience and Dean's fire.

But to be perfectly honest, I don't think even such a candidate could win. Not as a Democrat. Run him/her as a Republican, change a word or two of the rhetoric to reflect that ideology, and s/he might have a chance. That's exactly what the Republicans did, starting in 1980, at the local government level. Telling people the truth is the surest way to lose an election (Bullworth notwithstanding). That's the reality of American politics today.

True, more and more people are coming around. However, my observation is this: If * somehow smoothed out the Iraq occupation, added a few jobs in a well-paying sector of the economy, prosecuted even ONE of the criminal CEOs--he wouldn't need Diebold. He'd win in a landslide. I don't trust the electorate, because they make decisions on very superficial grounds. That's why it's so easy to lead them into a fascist state.

We have a school system which has, by and large, failed us.

We have a political system which by its nature, selects politicians
who are not clear leaders which leads to apathy.

We have a action hero - kick them in the ass - culture. It's easier
to strike out at our enemies than it is to remove their basis for
existence.

And despite all that, if the vote in 2004 is a referendum on
Fascism (or whatever we want to call what Bushco is leading us into),
I submit that if Bushco wins, it's STILL likely the result of rigged
elections. (As a result of the election being too close because of
all the other points).

I expect rigged elections

if it comes to that,
if we do not take to the streets
we will deserve what comes next

In your last line, I would just like to say, BUSH DID NOT WIN THE POPULAR VOTE! That cannot be said enough.

....you already live daily under economic-facism....making the transition to political-facism would be easy for many....if not logical...

Can anybody say,'Fourth Reich?'.....

The American people, like the Germans and the Italians before them, have the power to decide.

I no longer trust "the American people." Peroxide-blonde Fox bobble-heads decide what many "American people" will hear, think and believe. Toothpaste and apple pie. I'd sooner trust my fate to the voting whims of the Iraqis. They don't buy any of this bullshit we're feeding them. They have very strong bullshit detectors, and Bushco have torn their shirts with them for all time to come.

And this is an excellent thread on all counts.

This is (was?) a democracy, and if we sits on the sidelines, while this country creeps towards a facist christian theocracy, then its our own fault. The corruption and blood lust of the Bush administration is not exactly a secret. How many memos and photos from Abu Ghuraib do we need before we realize that the American people DOES know about the war crimes, but does not give a damn. Inaction equals ratification.

I disagree with a commonly stated view by many on this board and in this thread that the American people are being "mislead" into adopting racist and imperialistic views. I've spoken to several folks, as well as read on this board, about people who view Muslims in general as an enemy that must be eradicated. In other words, if the American people drink the government issued Kool-Aid, its because they like the taste. We all must be held accountable.

The bottom line, is that this is our country and our democracy. If we fail to vote, fail to demonstrate, fail to educate, fail to support Kerry, then we deserve the Government we end up with.

We often confort ourselves with the idea that people in foreign countries don't hate all Americans, they jsut hate George Bush. Well, if we give Bush a second term, then they have good reason to hate us, because we are the ones who put Bush's finger on the button.

that the American people are both responsible for and in favor of what's happening to the country. But your solution doesn't follow.

If the people already know what is going on, and approve of it, then how is "educating" them going to help? They have already rejected your position, and won't listen to you. Ever talk to a Freeper? A Creationist? A Flat-Earther? A Supply-Sider? There is no amount of evidence in the world that will change their minds, because they're not interested in the truth, or in anyone other than themselves.

I take further issue with your pronouncement that "we all" are responsible for others' actions. Sorry, but the only actions I have any control over whatsoever are my own. (And damned little of that, too.) If those actions fail to bring about the changes I hope for, that also is not my fault.

Sometimes all we can do is work, and let the results fall where they may. Because at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that face in the mirror.

The fascists have managed to put lipstick on the pig, and sell it to the public under the banner of religious piety and patriotism.

They have managed to rig elections long enough that the majority of candidates who have been allowed to win primary or general elections, on the Democratic side of the aisle, are the ones who are willing to sing the corporatist tune.

They've infiltrated every major (and many minor) liberal organization that was acting on behalf of the masses, turning those organizations into limp-wristed, message-twisted lapdogs.

It's really scarey what too much money in the hands of evil people can do to a nation.

Until we manage to change the laws governing corporations, and also start taxing the snot out of the corporations, we're headed down the road to fascism.... fast and furious.

:kick::kick::kick: