"Is this real world, or an exercise?!!?!" - Randi Rhodes

Did NORAD really say that when asked to scramble jets on 9-11?? That's what Randi Rhodes just said.. :wow: how did I miss that?

I am also wondering if the F9-11 movie will mention that 5 hijackers got training at US military bases..

9-11 is not my 'only issue', but lately I feel almost like carrying a notebook around with me about all the little unbelievable things, like the training, and the simulation of plane crashing into a building that same morning, and the wire transfer from ISI chief, and Jeb Bush picking up the records the next day from the flight schools.:eyes:

And the bizarre stuff that Hopsicker has written like how 9-11 commissioner Ben-veniste http://www.911citizenswatch.org/print.php?sid=82">once defended CIA-drug runners and the CIA/drug-running history of Huffman Aviation (where Atta was flying in Venice FL).

But UGGH. That is just too weird and :shrug: who would believe the background material unless they had read Into the Buzzsaw or somehow otherwise come to the conclusion that Gary Webb's 'Dark Alliance' history of the CIA involvement in drugs was credible. They would conclude that I was :crazy: (even before Bush's 'universal mental health screening' program came into being..)

Uggh. I want to go live on an island and sail everyday, :smoke: far away from this ugliness. :beer:

But first, should I put the notebook together? :shrug:

what was exchanged between those two guys right after that comment: was other crucial information, other than that it was 'real-world', exchanged between these two that might have enabled those scrambled jets to fly in the 'real-world' direction?

I started out right after 9/11 keeping a HUGE file of bookmarks of stuff related to it. I believed MIHOP from that very morning, and have not wavered since.

Unfortunately, my computer crashed a couple years ago, and I lost alot of my collected data. And after awhile it just got to be too much to keep up with.

You're right, there are SO many weird threads to untangle in all of this. I doubt that the whole truth will ever come out -- much as I wish for the contrary.

I just want bushco taken down -- whether it's the Plame outing, or the torture revelations, or the illegal and fraudulent Iraq invasion -- I don't care what it takes.

I just keep thinking that there's got to be *SOMETHING* that will put an end to the regime. I just don't hold out any hope that it will be 9/11.

sw

pls define for newebie.

There's also LIHOP -- Let it happen on purpose.

sw

Made It Happen On Purpose

See the alert below from the 911 Visibility Project at www.septembereleventh.org and check out the links they provide like http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=387 and also take a look at Minstrel Boy's thread on the same topic at

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1694495

Newsflash folks, your government is playing you for SUCKERS.

Here's the alert from the 911 Visibility Project re the 911 war games.

Dear 9/11 Truth activists and concerned citizens,

The final 9/11 Commission hearings are scheduled for
this Wednesday and Thursday, and will be aired on
CSPAN. Ostensibly these hearings will focus on "the
9-11 Plot." However, given the Commission's failure to
ask any of the important questions at previous
hearings, no credible sources expect them to do so this
time. Therefore, this action alert does not ask you to
make another appeal to the commission. Rather it is
directed towards the media, at this crucial time, in
order to alert them to the fact that the 9/11
commission is a whitewash.

Please participate! The final hearings covering "the
9/11 Plot" combined with the upcoming release of
Michael Moore's new film, "Farenheit 911," provide an
incredible window of opportunity. The media and the
public have never been as skeptical of the official
story of 9/11 as they are right now!

We provide everything you need in this email, including
sample letters and media email addresses.

Towards 9/11 Truth,

Emanuel Sferios
Webmaster, 9/11 Visibility Project
http://www.septembereleventh.org
----------

9/11 MEDIA ACTION - EXPOSE THE 9/11 COMMISSION
WHITEWASH!

SAMPLE LETTER
(Feel free to copy and paste, or use your own words.)

-----
Dear editor/reporter,

The final 9/11 commission hearings are upon us and the
important questions as put forth by the 9/11 families
have not been asked. Many of these questions pertain to
the evidence for Bush Administration complicity in the
attacks themselves, and the refusal of the 9/11
commission to address them is indicative of a coverup.

Ostensibly these hearings are supposed to focus on "the
9/11 plot" and the unprecedented failures of our air
defense system to respond to the hijacked aircraft. If
the commission took their mandate seriously, they would
inquire about the wargames that the US Military was
conducting on 9/11.

Wargames? What Wargames?

On the morning of Sept. 11 itself, the U.S. military
was conducting scheduled wargames and anti-terror
drills that included "airliner hijackings" as well an
"errant aircraft" crashing into a government building.
As referenced in the articles linked below, these
wargames have all been reported in the mainstream
media. Certainly they are relevant to the 9/11 plot. If
the commission is not a whitewash and truly wants to
get to the truth of 9/11, they will ask the hard
questions.

9/11 War Games - No Coincidence
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=387

The Cleveland Airport Mystery
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=323

NORAD was conducting a live-fly, hijack Training
Exercise
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060704_tripod_fema.html


For more questions the 9/11 commission is refusing to
ask, please visit the Family Steering Committee website:
http://911independentcommission.org

For more information on the 9/11 Truth movement, please
visit:
http://www.911truth.org
http://www.911visibility.org

Thank you and sincerely,
-----

EMAIL ADDRESSES

Below are 72 select email addresses for both mainstream
and alternative media outlets, as well as the
commission itself. Copy and paste the first one into
the "to" field and the rest put into the "bcc" or "cc"
fields. (And add your own!)

info@9-11Commission.gov

producers@democracynow.org,
counterpunch@counterpunch.org, mike@michaelmoore.com,
editor@commondreams.org, zmag@zmag.org,
familyliaison@9-11Commission.gov,
cbcinput@toronto.cbc.ca, news@commondreams.org,
Imus@msnbc.com, hardball@msnbc.com,
countdown@msnbc.com, abramsreport@msnbc.com,
joe@msnbc.com, voices@msnbc.com,
msnbcinvestigates@msnbc.com, headliners@msnbc.com,
webmaster@septembereleventh.org, evening@cbsnews.com,
EarlyShow@CBS.com, 48hours@cbsnews.com,
60II@cbsnews.com, ftn@cbsnews.com, talbotd@salon.com,
kamiya@salon.com, scottr@salon.com, lauram@salon.com,
ruth@salon.com, kaufman@salon.com, boehlert@salon.com,
szacharek@salon.com, ayork@salon.com,
klauerman@salon.com, areiter@salon.com,
wise@motherjones.com, backtalk@motherjones.com,
bauerlein@motherjones.com, laura@motherjones.com,
terrain@ecologycenter.org, editors@texasobserver.org,
associates@thenation.com, kluwer@wkap.com,
tcs@ntu.ac.uk, thesis11@latrobe.edu.au,
sqadir@globalnet.co.uk, thismag@web.net,
mavmedia@aol.com, transformations@ramapo.edu,
brucem@athabascau.ca, swniven@sagewoman.com,
sysop@zmag.org, news@michaelmoore.com,
admin@michaelmoore.com, mmflint@aol.com,
samarcollective@yahoo.com,
sierra.letters@sierraclub.org, sociala@nothingness.org,
gregorys9@aol.com, 101456.2153@compuserve.com,
eugene.a.teselle@vanderbilt.edu, review@webster.edu,
lydia.sargent@zmag.org, erf@rachel.org,
info@radiancemagazine.com, webmaster@commondreams.org,
rp@centralbooks.com, iade@rcc.com.ar,
redpepper@redpepper.org.uk, emichaeli@thecha.org,
remarx.1@nd.edu, rethink@exepc.com,
iwaller@binghamton.edu

That's a naive question, I know, but I was listening to All Things Considered the other day when they played the audio where they asked if it was "real" or simulated. The first thing that leapt into my mind was the war games scenario I've read about here, yet noone says a thing about it.

that we are aware they're failing to cover this important aspect of the 911 story. Just use the contact list above and send the media whores the links.

The idea that they wouldn't have eyes on the "real" radar during the exercise is insane. This would effectively imply that the US Air Force is dumb and incompetent.

Thing about it, they ran drills on nuclear attacks for 40 years. If no one watched the "real radar", the Soviets could have wiped us out simply by attacking while we were conducting exercises.

I'm pretty sure our Air Force isn't that fucking stupid. If private Gump was stationed at Crystal Mountain, he'd say something like
"Lt Duuan, shudent we waaatch the rale RAEDAR whiel were ronnin the exarsise???"

You just watch it Johnny Canuck!!! Your in the "Axis of Liberal Peacenicks we MUST invade"!!!! So just watch yourself!!!!!


</sarcasm>

BTW, I agree. The 9/11 commission has turned into a whitewash. I shudder to think what the controllers who made the calls to the military were threatened with in order to keep them silent.

They'd better talk for their own good SOON. They better get to Michael Moore and spill the beans. Because all the "silent witnesses" of the Kennedy assasination started dropping like flies once the Warren commission was completed.

Bill Burkett probably saved his own life by going public about the scrubbing of Bush's TANG files. Go public and STAY ALIVE! Once your on record, killing you will look too suspicious!!!!

was the person giving the shoot down order and taking control on the morning of 9/11: Bush became unhinged and had a meltdown. It took the entire day to get him under control. Remember, no one heard from the President of The United States for the ENTIRE DAY.

that it took the whole day to pull him out from underneath the bed he was hinding under. I have always found it amazing that a man supposedly full of family values didn't insist that he needed to get to his wife and children because it was his duty to protect them or die trying.

"9-11 is not my 'only issue', but lately I feel almost like carrying a notebook around with me about all the little unbelievable things, like the training, and the simulation of plane crashing into a building that same morning, and the wire transfer from ISI chief, and Jeb Bush picking up the records the next day from the flight schools."

I know JUST how you feel

Is it standard operating procedure to question orders like that?

If a fire alarm goes off, you're supposed to evacuate. You don't stop people and say, "Is this a real fire or just a drill?"

Expecially since there were military exercises going on 9-11 to simulate highjacked planes in the US.

The coincidence of that happening is difficult for some to swallow but it happened all the same.

Did those exercises add to the confusion and hesitation?
Undoubtedly.

They know darn well what is "simulated" and what is "real". They know damn well to plan to "cancel" an exercise if a real event happened. They were still watching the "real" radar. They were still watching for Russian missles.

They still had people manning the phones ready for a call from the FAA.

Even if they WERE conducting an exercise, they still had the capability to distinguish between reality and fiction. Any "incident" would cause cancelation of the exercise.

At least in my building, where we have the fire alarm go off every month or so.
I don't see anything suspicious in asking if the emergency call was a drill.

My outrage is due to the fact that it is completely inconsistent with the image of efficiency and strength they project. What if the answer is "it's a drill"? Does that mean you can finish your cup of coffee? Are you then free to do a half-assed job? I expect these people to be on the ball; the best of the best. Instead it seems like they're working the drive-thru at Wendy's.

They extort hundreds of billions of dollars from us each year to convince us they are protecting us. I knew more watching CNN that day than the people who were supposed to be making decisions and executing orders knew.

If your building is having a false fire alarm every month or so, something is wrong that should be fixed. That isn't the way it's supposed to work.

or, what context was it used in? i'm assuming this remark was made when NORAD was asked to scramble fighters, which would seem to be a normal enough response. is there something i'm missing?

The military does so many drills and practices and that is what is generally expected. On my ship, when we were in the yards, we had a pretty substantial fire in one of the spaces. We had a fire drill or two each day since FOREVER and when the real deal broke out, had the P.O. of the Watch NOT said, "This is not a drill! This is not a drill! Fire! Fire! Fire! There is a Class Alpha fire in compartment ..." Blah, blah, blah. We would have taken our time and complained about having to get out of our racks at such an ungodly hour.

A totally reasonable thing to wonder. Hell, if they told me to scramble jets because there had been four planes hijacked and they needed to be intercepted, my first question would have been, "Are you shitting me or is this real?" Takes a hot five seconds and then you know one way or the other.

Betty Ong, 45, of Andover: Flight attendant. Ong called her airline supervisor before the flight crashed to say she had seen at least three hijackers with weapons and some people had been stabbed. A day before the American flight, Ong made a return flight from San Jose to Boston with her co-worker, Kathy Glauser. "We just sat here and cried," said Glauser's husband, Matt.

It was in the process of happening and no one in the entire system had any idea that Ms. Betty Ong existed or that she was endangered. Hindsight is 20/20 and touching photos or anecdotes serve no purpose in the discussion of whether asking if the alarm was real or a drill was reasonable or not.

I believe it was totally reasonable and this post does nothing to make the position less tenable.

You say:

"no one in the entire system had any idea that Ms. Betty Ong existed or that she was endangered."

I say:

8:30 a.m. Gerard Arpey, American Airlines' executive vice president for operations, hears from a manager who says he has been trying to page him to tell him about a possible hijacking of Flight 11. He is told that another manager is in contact with flight attendant Betty Ong on the hijacked flight. He learns via Ong that two other attendants have been stabbed, that two or three passengers are in the cockpit, and more. (Independent Commission, 1/27/04) At some point before Flight 11 crashes, Arpey also hears about the "We have some planes" comment made by the hijackers. (USA Today, 8/13/02)

Ben Sliney, the FAA's National Operations Manager that morning, later says he was haunted all morning by the "We have some planes" comment, but it's not clear where else the Ong warning was passed on to.

My disturbance with the comment is partly that it does seem to fit with the story of the simulation that was going on that day..yet, has that relationship been explored by the (public) 9-11 commission? No. One more hanging thread in a mass of spaghetti, and I'm sick of it.

According to the 9-11 staff statement:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing12/staff_statement_17.pdf

Boston Center did not follow the routine protocol in seeking military assistance through the prescribed chain of command. In addition to making notifications within the FAA, Boston Center took the initiative, at 8:34, to contact the military through the FAA’s Cape Cod facility. They also tried to obtain assistance from a former alert site in Atlantic City, unaware it had been phased out. At 8:37:52, Boston Center reached NEADS. This was the first notification received by the military—at any level—that American 11 had been
hijacked:

FAA: Hi. Boston Center TMU, we have a problem here. We have a
hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.

NEADS: Is this real-world or exercise?

FAA: No, this is not an exercise, not a test.

NEADS promptly ordered to battle stations the two F-15 alert aircraft at Otis Air Force Base, about 153 miles away from New York City. The air defense of America began with this call.

At NEADS, the reported hijacking was relayed immediately to Battle Commander Colonel Robert Marr. After ordering the Otis fighters to battle stations, Colonel Marr phoned Major General Larry Arnold, commanding General of the First Air Force and the Continental Region. Marr sought authorization to scramble the Otis fighters. General
Arnold instructed Marr “to go ahead and scramble the airplanes, and we’d get permission later.” General Arnold then called NORAD headquarters to report. F-15 fighters were ordered scrambled at 8:46 from Otis Air Force Base. But NEADS did not know where to send the alert fighter aircraft: “I don’t know where I’m scrambling these guys to. I need a direction, a destination.” Because the hijackers had turned off the plane’s transponder, NEADS personnel spent the next minutes searching their radar scopes for the elusive primary radar return. American 11 impacted the World Trade Center’s North Tower at 8:46:40. Shortly after 8:50, while NEADS personnel were still trying to locate American 11, word reached them that a plane had hit the World Trade Center.

Radar data show the Otis fighters were airborne at 8:53.

for example, on e-mail..."THIS IS AN EXERCISE---blah blah blah----THIS IS AN EXERCISE", or on voicemale you are supposed to say "This is an exercise", and then give the message.

I was not so suprised when I heard the NORAD folks ask the quesiton.....

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And maybe the fact that some hijackers were trained at US military bases is just further proof of their cleverness and our incompetence.

I hope so.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

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