What happened

I'm prefacing this by saying I'm a die-hard liberal, ready for a change in administration, and basically fit the bill for a tree-hugger. So, don't get me wrong when I say the following...

We are no better than the freepers. We sit, we discuss, we bitch about the opposite side, and we then assume to take the higher ground. We have broken this political ideology into them, and us. The freepers do this too, it's their way, or our way. There is no in between. I tried posting on free republic, it wasn't negative towards anyone, just stated my opinions, and I got kicked. On this message board, if a freeper makes a pro-Bush statement, instead of debating him on that statement, we jump on him for being a freeper. What happened to the elevated debate that our country was founded on. We can't debate them by not letting them speak to us. Open our forumns to the conserative right, let them speak their minds, and that's where we will win. In the short while I've been here, I've seen some of the smartest thoughts and ideas I've ever heard, so let's use them. I tired of this, DU'ers suck, Freepers Suck, they don't know what their talking about. We lie, they lie...stop.

I agree completely with the assumption made by the right, saying Moore is only preaching to the choir. Damn right he was, and while it was comforting to see, what are we doing here? It's nice to have a message board where we can sit and talk with fellow lefties...but, why couldn't we open up a forumn where lefties and righties can chat, argue, debate...elevate the debate. By doing this, we are no longer apart of the mudslinging that our country has found itself doing over these past few years.

Negativity will not win. No matter how much we think it will, the only way to win the hearts and minds of the majority of Americans is to beat the opposition on their ideas and thoughts.

I have to put up with opposing views almost everywhere else EXCEPT this board -- not that I agree with every view stated here but I agree with enough of them that it is a relief to come here.

I'm sure there are other boards out there where people can debate until the cows come home but that's not what I'm interested in.

Don't you think it is kind of one-dimensional to only listen to the views that are left of central. We are just reinforcing our beliefs instead of testing our beliefs. Conseratives do not have some sort of disease that causes them to be evil, neither do us liberals. A majority of conseratives are moderate, as are most liberals. That should be the target group, the moderate conseratives who only have the chance to listen to the freepers because we don't let them speak on our board.

It's just not the premise of this particular board. Believe me, I get plenty of views that are to the right of mine -- I live in Texas!

being shoved down our throats.

We get enough of that shit in the real world.

Repubs aren't the least bit interested in debate.

If you don't like the way it is here, leave.

BTW there are pleanty of those people here.

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leftist?

I read stuff from the mainstream press and from the right (I know I just repeated myself!) all the time. I debate people on the other side all the time.

This place is an OASIS.

I encourage you to start your own message board with your ideals. Heck, I may even go visit it every now and then. Let us know when you get it up.

The RW takes a position of win at all costs. While Democrats have tried to be accomodating and compromising, the Republicans (I guess starting with Newt Gingrich) consider politics to be life or death war. That's why I get so mad when I see Tom Daschle being "gentlemanly," when he should be fighting like a pit bull. It would be great if we could all be civil, but I'm afraid those days are over.

free "debate" between Dem/Repub Lib/Conserv etc. you will usually see degeneracy into shouting matches and vitriolic hate which will make the worst threads on DU look like nothing. I used to participate in boards like this. Despite debating points, I made an effort to never insult or call other by bad names but frequently had this done to me, just for taking non administration viewpoints. So I tired of it.

The purpose of boards like this, or FR for that matter, is to avoid those kind of knock down dragout scenarios and be primarily for the people on "our" side of the aisle. I agree with Longhorn, I have no desire to answer those bozos and if I did I would go to the many boards where I can do that.

Check out USENET and alt.politics.bush sometime. Enjoy yourself some nice free civil debate on the issues! LOL!

That's the problem. They normally result in shouting matches and name calling. Why can't we make a sub forum with rules and restrictions, not on what side of the aisle you are on, but no ad hominum attacks, nor attacks that aren't based on a thought, fact, or idea. This would weed out those who truly want to hear the opposition and engage in debate, and those who just want to name call.

most of us, who voluntarily joined it, accept it to be?

A board would have to be INTENSIVELY moderated to be the kind of thing you are talking about, and you'd still probably have to kick people off who refused to obey the rules.

I for one would be very interested in a CIVIL forum of open political debate, but it would have to have rules like no cursing or any kind of name calling, etc. Seriously. I have not seen or heard of such a forum yet.

I'm perfectly happy with the function DU serves. If you're not, please find some other board where you are happy. Good luck.

I like DU. I think it's a great place. They have the resources to create a civil forum, I don't. I am very happy here because I listen to arguments that I very much agree with. I just would like to see the opposing arguments.

and the majority of du'ers neither want nor need them here. divide and conquer, huh?

Go start such a board and let us know how it goes.

I get that debate wherever I decide to open my mouth and express my views! There are debates here, too, but the gulf is not as wide.

I had to quit moderating a board that was supposed to be "no politics" -- only, in reality, it was "no non-conservative politics." It is quite frustrating to have to sit back and hear opposing views that are considered "patriotic," but if you express an opposing view, it's "political" and therefore, not allowed.

As an atheist and a liberal democrat, I have spent most of my life in the minority -- within my family and within my state. When I found DU and read the premise -- that this is a place for DEMOCRATS and progressives, I knew I had found a place where I could get away from the opposition for a few minutes (lately, a few HOURS) a day!

I don't have the link but Skinner, the founder of this board, wrote an explanation of how they came to the decision to limit membership. If you go to the "Ask the Administrators" forum, you can find a link to the first seven days of the board, though you'll have to search for it.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from, anyway.

I understand completely. I'm just frustrated right now because I got in an argument over dinner with a republican who kept on using the quote "you're spinning, stop spinning.." I just want to find a board that will have intellectual debates without name calling and mudslinging.

"we" have nothing to do with it. "We" do not own this board. I think this is a very good thing. Skinner and friends rule this board. I believe they are busy enough, and probably will not engage in a sub-forum where these discussions can take place simply because you cannot control the vitriol. They started this board with rules and if you do not respect the rules, you don't get to post.

Many people on this board have attempted to have calm discourse with all manner of conservatives, and, of course, there are some on this board that would have trouble even being polite to those who oppose us and our ideals; but, a lot of us can debate ad infinitum.

The truth is, we love our board as it is. People who don't, have many other places to go.

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that doesn't mean my statements are any less relevant. I've been here a very short while, but since I have, I've been exposed to both the right side of the debate(freerepublic) and our side. Both sides use the same tactics that wont work for anyone who doesn't already believe in them. Plus, the representative side wont recognize the opposing side. We need to do that.

If you are looking for something more moderate, I'm sure it's out there.

I personally have no interest in discussing things like school vouchers or prayer in school with those people, since they are in any form unacceptable to me.

I also don't need to be told that progressive taxation is "income redistribution" and "socialism". Our country had it's best economic times when taxation was at its most progressive, and organized labor was at it's strongest. Income inequality was at all time lows. Now the gap between rich and working people is at its widest since the gilded age. Freepers have no problem with that whatsoever. Their answer is "Go get a better degree! or "Start your own business!"

Never mind that there are millions on the unemployment rolls with college degrees, or the fact that 90% of all business start-ups fail within the first year (and that's among those fortunate enough to have enough capital scrped together to even start a business - I'm in NO position to take on any more debt, and I have no house to leverage JUST LIKE 40% of the population who are not homeowners)

They always have a convenient "fuckyou" answer for people like me - they despise the working class. WHERE THE FUCK IS THERE ANY COMMON GROUND WITH THOSE PEOPLE?

The premise of your thread - that we should listen to those hateful, amoral people is so offfensive. I have to listen to their crap constantly on the radio & TV. I live in SF, so I don't have to hear it much from people in person, but whhen I lived in other cities, I got more than my fill.

But I do agree that the poster is wrong. Most other discussion boards are dominated by the right. I see nothing wrong with democrats having a place of our own.

And when I want to duke it out with the freeps, I go to Yahoo! (What a zoo!)

I can't post at FR, because I get booted immediately no matter what I do.

you might not understand the dynamics.

discussion boards and have reasonable discussions with rightwingers, have at it. It's a dead end, frustrating experience. If you go to the DU home page and click on "about DU" you will see that the expressed purpose of this message board is for progressives of like mind to discuss progressive issues. We're here - and they're not, because we don't like to bang our heads against walls, I think.

need a place to discuss politics with likeminded people. This is a democratic message board after all. I'm not interested in debating with freepers. We get enough of their viewpoint and their propaganda from mainstream news.

Feel free to start a message board though that welcomes conservatives and liberals. As someone noted, they usually turn into flame wars (and some though Naderite-Democrat debates are bad)...Politics, as well as religion is a prickly topic that few discuss rationally, especially when arguing completely different viewpoints or ideologies.

Either way, welcome to DU. This place is mostly a big tent. It houses democrats and non democrats, from the extreme left to those right of center (like Lieberman). Sure at times you may feel like this is a left wing echo camber, but you'll still learn a lot and might be surprised how much debate takes place among even liberals.

"I'm prefacing this by saying I'm a die-hard liberal"

Is that in some kind of manual somewhere?

:shrug:

The least you could do before you start posting your wish list is to read the Forum Rules.

There are plenty of forums where you can "debate" to your hearts content. I love this forum because it feels good to be surrounded by people who share my beliefs and concerns.

It's real simple, if you don't like it here, don't stay.

I come here to trash Repukes - I don`t care to listen to their right wing bull shit rhetoric in return. All I have to do to get that, is turn on a damned radio.

is for both of you newbies. True, nightowwl, a reading of forum rules is a must for all newbies. Hope you're with us a long time.

:bounce:

so we don't really have to "elevate the debate" here.

First of all, if you really don't see any difference between the kinds of things we say (even the worst stuff) and the kinds of things they say, I really can't help ya.

Secondly, this isn't an "open" debating society website. There are loads of bipartisan debate-style websites out there and they do manage to stay somewhat civil. This is supposed to be a place where you can let your hair down, so to speak. And living in TX, I appreciate that.

Compared to what? The slavish capitulation and niceties that the majority of Democrats in Washington have offered up over the past 3 1/2 years? Gee, that's gotten the party REAL far.

Spare me another entreaty to play nice with a bunch of knuckle-dragging cretins. The time has long since passed to tell the goddamn truth and confront these freedom-hating jackals head on.

There's nothing wrong with having a private club. DU is here for dems to talk about dem issues; and by reading a lot of what dems have to say, from a variety of differing points, we can formulate ideas and plans and learn from one another, so that we can then go out into the world and spread the message, because we then have a message to spread.

you don't see the Dallas Cowboys asking the opposing team to come over and discuss the Cowboy playbook and offer their debate on it, right? No, the debate is done on the playing field itself in the form of the actual game.

Any conservative that comes here isn't interested in learning anything, anyway. Because, mostly, conservatives (and by this, I really mean freeper, since they're the ones who come here) aren't interested in actual learning, and also because they have their opinions already formed. Just like we do.

There can be no open, public dem/republican debate message board. It will ALWAYS devolve, quite immediately, into a pissing match, not an exchnage of ideas and data.

Righties are incapable of elevating the debate.

May I remind anyone about Dale E. Jr. today?

:)

TWL

This is not one of them.

Hooray!

Republicans and Democrats are people.

The hardest bias to see is one's own.

Please. :)

Conservo-talk can be readily accessed at about 16 MILLION other locations online, and on 99.9999999% of radio stations..

If we "need" a conservo-fix, we can go elsewhere..

DU is about US...not THEM..

That's as easy as it gets, in the explanation department..

If you (or anyone) feels the need to confront them, please do...just not here :)


It's like having a birthday party.. Wouldn't you have hated it , if you found out that your mom invited all the kids you hated....and told you , that you had to be "nice" to them???