Can someone help me like Edwards?

Out of all of the speeches, Edwards was the only one that didn't inspire me. Not only that, but I found myself annoyed. He's mild in a time that requires wild. I wanted scaffolding and rope. I wanted torches and pitchforks. What I got was a pretty face staring into the tv screen, looking all too empty. Promises. Where's the requisite rage? And don't tell me it's because it's a convention. This guy may not fully realize just where the ship he's about to help run, has run aground. We're in enemy territory, if you ask me. And I for one, am not going to be happy if those who helped to get us here, are just voted out of office. Nothing in his speech tugged at my heartstrings. Frankly, I don't want to even imagine this guy as president. That scares me. Even in an open minded forum such as this one, there are things I don't dare say. I'd get flamed. I'll say there are things about him that indicate he just doesn't get it.

This was his time to explain to me who he is and for what he's going to stand. Well, I'm sitting here this morning with an empty feeling. Maybe someone who knows more, can tell me what I missed.

promised that no American working full time will ever be in poverty again.

If ending homelessness doesn't inspire you I don't know what will.

Jack, you dead.

Furthemore, Jack, you don't understand a winning political strategy when it's right in front of your face.

At the very least

or hot air?

Interesting

...and I strongly suspect that it has to do with his enthusiastic speaking style.

Good thing somebody like yourself was never picked to be on any of his juries.

and he gave a good political speech last night. He is also a very good manipulator. He knows how to use language and his looks to get what he wants. Some people buy into that whole "charm" thing; it comes off as phoney to me.

And if I had been on one of his juries, I would have approached things fairly. But in the law, or in most battle of ideas, for that matter, the winner is often the one who argues best, not the one who is right.

Kool-Aid.

I'd love to believe them also, but we all know this is politics.
Don't we?

I like the fresh air.

OK, Edwards and Kerry will rid the country of all homelessness, poverty and hunger. And Democratic presidential candidates never make promises they can't keep. Happy?

I just wanted some actual ideas to back up my trust.

I did watch the debates, and he said some fiery things. I expected more from the convention speech.

That you post a "wedgie", don't respond for 1/2 an hour, and when you do it's to "agree" with someone critical of the Dem ticket.
What's up with that?

I feel like I just took on the entire United States. I posted a legit question, and got an avalanche back. So much for a first starter post.

PS What's a wedgie?

eliminate homelessness and poverty give everyone a job. Don't we all want that? The next step is convincing people you can really do it.
Was he convincing? I have now been labeled a smelly cynic because I didn't think he was.

Thats the real question.

I thought we were discussing the effectiveness of Edwards' speech last night?

I wish others wouldn't try to stifle free speech.

specifically.

If you don't set out big goals, you'll never reach them. And isn't that a most worthy goal?

It was about as successful as the War on Iraq.

change with political winds. We need, as a country, as a people, to decide that this is important. And we need someone willing to keep telling us it's important.

Giving up on the idea gets us exactly nowhere. I prefer to keep trying, myself...

we need a plan not just talk. He's a good speaker. What's the plan? How is it achieved?

Then, yes, I agree -- I'd hope to see a solid plan. I do hope this isn't just campaign talk. I do hope its serious. I'm old enough to have developed sufficient cynicism, I'm afraid. But I'm clinging to optimism.

And, at least they're talking about it. I highly doubt the other guys will -- its not even on their radar screen.

on another forum. "First we clean the White House-Then we clean our house." B$$$ was full of promises too, some people were foolish enough to believe them too.

I think you're right on. That's what it's all about. Get in the WH first. What choice do we have? None.

Think of JFK and his commitment to put a man on the moon. Many believed it was impossible, but if you never dare to dream, and inspire other to work toward your dream, you will never get there.

I am like you Jersygirl, an optimist with a healthy dose of cynicism thrown in.

and Kerry does too. JFK's leadership was enhanced by his VP choice, who also had a record of leadership. Unfortunately we were not always lead in the right direction ,Viet Nam for instance. Leadership is more than talk, it's action.

I want to know how he, as VP, is going to help make that happen. What did he do to end homelessness as a Senator, I wonder.

Somebody needs to stick a mirror under their nose to see if they're alive.

his speech about people in poverty, homelessness, healthcare was so moving.

also he is soft spoken and warm.

a little jealous perhaps?

I thought he was great! Not because he's a handsome dude but because he's right. There are 2 Americas. His message was right on, IMO.

running mate for Kerry at this particular time, then nothing I could possibly say will change your mind. Vote for Cheney if you think he's the best candidate for VP.

the poster says they are having trouble getting inspired by Edwards and you tell them to vote for Cheney? Is inspiration now a mandatory requirement?

I personally think he is a prince, especially as compared to the gloom and doom of the opposition.

But a salamander could get my vote over bush. I don't mean that as a flame. I really do think Edwards was good in the debates. But I'm empty. I feel like I felt about Gore, during the Clinton election. I eventually became enamored with Gore, even if he seemed to Republican for me in 1992.

Would you prefer that Edwards, in the biggest speech of his life, come out totally against his nature, personal history and character to give a fire-breathing speech just to satisfy whatever itch you have for that? I would strongly urge you to consider some of the other speakers if you're looking for fiery oratory. Speakers such as the Rev. Alsten, who electrified the crowd on opening night of the convention.

But Edwards isn't disposed toward the "voice of doom" oratory, either by training or by his nature. He's a trial lawyer, and a very good one. His style and his speaking are designed to persuade, which isn't very popular in our "see-who-can-shout-the-loudest-and-interrupt-the-most" media culture. Maybe he should have blowed up some stuff reel gud.

I don't see how mild is going to beat this bunch in the White House.

MAn was he great. Believe me, he's the attack dog the ticket needs. Not in a negative way, but because he can lay out a line of argument so that the undecideds have a clear choice.

I could not watch the speech last night, but a friend taped it and I hope to catch up with it tonight.

I guess the plan for this convention has been to have everybody on their best behavior. But believe me, Edwards can dish out the red meat like nobody's business.

I don't need my post dissected, like so many have done here. I just need someone to fill me in on who this Edwards guy is.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Please crawl back under the bridge, sir.

Your link (among other things) is defective.

But we don't need any disinformation from Republican shills about Kerry's service; that was his second tour, in fact.

Your boy was AWOL.

The problem repub's have is that not all of us give a shit about Kerry's VietNam record of injuries. We do care that he volunteered, that he served the time he was given, that he has supported veteran affairs in the past and that he has not abandoned the troops in Iraq unlike the Bush admin. Its called consistency, something the current admin. lacks in my judgement.

Moreover, Kerry has not put us in debt so high a shit pile would be more pleasant. He has not lied about WMD and he does not have a vice president who is delusional enough to insist that weapons exist when factually, no one has found a GD thing. We do know that unlike the Bush admin., domestic issues are pledged to be addressed, that school initiatives will be funded and that the tax cuts to the people who need them the least will be repealed.

The fact is, one boy for re-election has a record as president that is not surprising to me, but not pleasing either. The other doesn't and so we don't know how well he will do. What we do know is that some of we americans are willing to take the risk of of a new administration. Other americans are unwilling to admit that any risk exists at all with the current admin. If over 50% of the american voters, my countrymen and women, will even LOOK at another candidate, what makes anyone think that we can afford to ignore some of the ugly realities placed before us with the Bush admin. track record?

If enough people claim that someone has a tail, it makes sense for that person to take a look at their behind and see if maybe, just maybe, there is a tail. Otherwise, its best to take the tail and head on out of here.

Go Michigan!! I do miss it.

however short it may be.

Sid

If you quote Swift Boat Veterans For The Truth, then you aren't in favor of John Kerry for president, thus don't belong on this board. Goodbye.

Even if this crap is true, I'll quote Meatloaf, "2 out of 3 ain't bad"(PH's)

In case you're thirsty, Karl Rove dropped something off for you...

<>

Jackass.

your boy bush* got his medals where? Oh yeah, the one for dental hygene.

got his "Tuffy" Badge..... for being good in the dental chair.

shaped like the little tooth? Or the lollypop one?

He keeps everything on the high road, and I admit it's a little frustrating to those of us who would like a little more red meat.

Hopefully, America will like it.

He's about optimism. That's who he is, and last night he was presenting himself and his vision of the world to all of us.

He is an honorable man who feel deeply that our country is moving in the wrong direction. He believes everyone deserves a fair shake, no matter the circumstances they were born into.

You should find a transcript and read it, because who he is and what he stands for is all there.

like, he was way to right, but stuck to traditional Democratic values. I like to think these guys are really more to the left, but try to present a more populous moderate tone. You just can't go off to the left or right and expect to win. they know in the hearts of Meany people, we are anti-war anti-bush, they are just trying to take the high ground, and not resort to name calling.

and he's very good at it. As a VP candidate, he's one of the most effective running mates Kerry could have. (And I was a Dean guy.)

Some of Edwards's remarks on Iraq have been too hawkish and have turned me off. But his economic populism is very inspiring.

the media would ruin him like they ruin Dean over the scream. If you didn't find goodness and hope in his speech last night there is nothing any of us can say to you. As far as I'm concerned both John's are fine by me except for their vote on IWR - and sadly I believe they voted the way they did because they were running for President and not on the merits of invading Iraq. I hate that but that is the reality of politics - and they are a million times better than that freak who is in office now.

Kerry only voted for Iraq on one condition. the UN accepts it. This would have gone allot better if we had the world community backing us up, and Kerry knew it. Bush is just a terrible diplomat.

maybe he knew the UN would never back this up. "Gone alot better" - are you saying that if the UN agreed we should have shocked and awed innocent Iraqi citizens - NO NO NO we should have NEVER NEVER NEVER DONE THIS - no WMD - no threat - thousands killed more wounded - there were several politicians who were smart enough to know that the freak-in-chief is a lying sack of crap and could never be trusted and they had the courage and strength to say NO - Bob Graham - Ted Kennedy - Dennis Kucinich and others....Kerry and Edwards should have done the same.

Thanks. I appreciate your points. I forgot about the hounds that are ready to bark at every glitch in this trip. I'm also very disturbed about the Patriot Act votes. Being better than Bush isn't an argument for me any more.

but Bush is so completely horrible - that at this point we have to live with it - this country can not survive four more years of this idiot....it truly scares me to think of him getting more time

In the words of Ted Kennedy

We Have Nothing to Fear but Four More Years

turer words were never spoken

In terms of volume and excitement, he didn't seem to be as "rowdy" as he's been in the past, perhaps because he's a bit hoarse this week.

crying in the audience. Usually the cameras try to find the most bored looking person. They had a hard time during Edwards's speech.

They always started applauding before Edwards hit his point.

Almost all the standard stump speech material fell a little flat because half the crowd knew what was coming and started cheering too early.

Of course when he unveiled his new material with the mother at the kitchen table and "Hope is on the way" we saw the Edwards of the primaries telling a new story to a new audience - and the audience loving every moment.

His job last night was to convert the undecided people in TV land, not convince the choir at the convention center...they're already voting for the ticket. I agree that most of us did want to hear how bad shrub is, and domn it, we're gonna send him packing! But that doesn't do well in a broad national TV audience. His only job is to get 51% of the voters to vote for Kerry/Edwards!

There's a place for fire and brimstone, but it's not really the heads of the ticket. It's Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton (although in a different method), Wexler (Fla), you know, the strong forceful speakers who can scream the real, but nasty stuff without making the 2 candidates look mean.

I saw Kucinich, and I was fired up. Then Edwards came on like a turd, in my mind. I realize that they are trying to get to the rest of the voters.
I'm not satisfied to just "send them packing". I want them in shackles. Breaking rocks. I do not have the patience for mildness at this point.

...and neither are Kerry and Edwards.

This is about winning an election. Kerry and Edwards are our vehicle to take back the White House and kick Bush out of it. They are not our vehicle to take revenge on Bush.

If what you ultimately want is to see BushCo in shackles, you will never be satisfied with Kerry and Edwards, because their priorities in office will be to fix the country, not take revenge.

However, you can certainly use Kerry and Edwards as a stepping stone towards your goals. After the election, a window will definitely open for you and others to go after BushCo in court.

You don't have to worship Kerry and Edwards, but you can be smart enough to use them.

Good grief this is a rough neighborhood.

I, too, was way fired up by Obama and Carter and Teresa and Sharpton... and when I heard Edwards, I just felt let down. Now, I was an Edwards fan when he was running for prez, so don't shoot me for saying this, but I felt let down and then I realized it was because he wasn't talking to me - or perhaps to you. They're talking to those morans out there who are still trying to size up the situation and are afraid Edwards isn't tough enough. Sure he still talked a liberal economic message, but I think the early speeches rallied the faithful and these, the most important and watched speeches, are for the undecideds out there.

you are doing what you can to help save your country. I like Edwards more than Kerry, but Kerry is growing on me. Edwards will probably, over time grow on you too. But you have to admit (I hope) that he is better than Cheney.

Thats all that matters at this point. Vote!

Despite what some people seem to think, falling head over heals in love with these guys is not an absolute requirement.

:eyes:

You know what the two choices are. if that doesn't inspire you, nothing will.

Get used to it.

He's one up from Lieberman.

is the kind of image the Dems want to project to those trying to figure out who is best to lead the country?

Jeez.

I share your anger, but it's just not useful to the situation. Do you want an emotional release, or do you want a good president?

His optimism will carry across party lines, to a broad range of regular folks. And I have to say, I'll love anyone who wants to talk about the shame of children going to bed hungry. What are the odds THAT will come up at the RNC?

He's a very smart guy, he's got a great grip on how to sell himself (sorry to put it so bluntly, but there you are). I think the message of a united country is one that will always win people over.

For too long, Democrats have allowed themselves to be painted as wild-eyed radicals... and we've even played into that image. Here's a guy who can speak plainly to plain folks, and who looks at the world not with distrust and disdain, but with optimism and a real American "can-do" spirit.

I found the speech very moving in parts. He's not yet at the Clinton level as far as speaking -- but let's face it, few are. But I thought it was very effective and sent a terrific message.

I found his speech to be fiery and he had a very DYNAMIC presence about himself.... he seemed secure and confident! Not only that, but he is good looking as well. :P

he's too conservative and I don't think he and Kerry are going to change direction enough to help the people who really need help.

It's easy to complain, try giving us a solution.

There are many things to like about John Edwards. I'll let you google him or browse his site yourself for all of those things, and just share a couple that reach me:

He is a positive person, who makes positive things happen. He brings positive energy to Kerry.

I thought his speech was great. It wasn't my favorite of the night, or my favorite that I've heard from him. But that wasn't because of his demeanor, delivery, or presence. He did a great job.

It wasn't my favorite because of some of the content. He specifically highlighted the differences between my pov and the Kerry/Edwards campaign. That doesn't excite me. There is a small part of me that is disappointed in that part of the platform. But the larger part of me knows, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that America, and I, will be better off under Kerry/Edwards than Bush/Cheney, and that a Kerry/Edwards admin leaves the door open to work on the issues that concern me. If I believe in the democratic process, I have to support it. And the bottom line is that many Americans are not where I am on some issues.

I was glad that Kerry chose Edwards for vp; I'd hoped he would. I was happy to see Edwards welcomed and supported at the podium last night, and I think he did a great job.

What is he going to stand for? That's where we go to work on November 3rd, bringing the issues of the "other America" to the WH.

and George Bush. I hate to bring it up again, but Edwards is 100% better than either of those two. What's not to like?

.

I think things are getting too autmoated these days.

:evilgrin:

He was charming, optimistic, and probably made the average mom and pop middle America feel good about a Kerry/Edwards ticket. Jesse, Al and Dennis said what I, a liberal, needed to hear to feel good. Edwards said what a larger percent of the population wanted to hear.

Plus mole or no mole, the man is one fine looking man. He has the charm and looks that could bring back swooning back into fashion! <hee he>

I see. But for someone who's been completely blown away by what has happened since the frivolous impeachment of President Clinton, right on down to the obscene comments made by Cheney, I am about ready to implode. For someone who has paid attention to the truth, and not just the so-called news, it's nearly impossible to not be in a rage.
You're right. It's not the time for an emotional release.
Most of you have helped me realize what is important. The restoration of our White House is what the country needs. Honesty and caring. And these guys have that.

...I benefited from listening to. The cheerleading-type speeches do not interest me as I am more interested in the nuts and bolts behind a policy proposal than I am in hearing just the garden variety political rhetoric. When Edwards speaks, he actually says something.

"Two Americas"

"It doesn't have to be that way."

"Hope is on the way!"

Slogans we can use, and policy proposals we can cite. Not just political rhetoric but real substance.

duh'bya has been on his best behavior the past 4 years due to election influences should give anyone a pause. Considering that this influence will be removed over the next four years should sound major alarms. No restraints whatsoever on asscroft, duh'bya, cheney, and their loyal henchmen. I don't know whether to call the psychiatric ambulance or the FBI.

The choice is between two men. Ole "F**K YOU" Cheney or the Honorable John Edwards. Considering Nader and whatever choice he may dredge up is a major indication of delusion.

Edwards is a good man and a good leader. He will be a lot better than the alternative.

as is your American right.

But when a man like John Edwards comes on television and speaks from the heart, claiming to do all he can to end poverty, and the sick feeling we all have that our finances and jobs are withering away.

Well I embrace that belief. I embrace that hope. What I reject is the current situation in our country. And I'll leave out Iraq and terror even.

-I can't even name the deficit, all thos zeroes make me dizzy.

-My parents who worked all their lives, are having to reasses their retirement due to rising costs of health care.

-Will social security be there for you? Not under shrubya.

-Breathe deeply, while you don't have to wear a respirator.

So go sit in a corner and wait for the 'perfect speech'. Maybe you'll see it at the RNC. I'm going to go out and help John Edwards in any way I can.

.... at how unable so many of you are to permit any criticism of your man here. The original poster simply said he found Edwards uninspiring. He did not imply he would not vote Dem. He just doesn't find the man interesting.

Frankly, I share his opinion somewhat. I have a real problem with glib howdy-doody everybody's-happy people. Maybe I'm just jealous of their apparent ability to ignore reality or coat it over with scads of happy-talk. Talk is cheap, and an optimistic outlook is great, but only to a point. If you make crucial decisions based on wishful thinking, you will not succeed.

That said, I think Edwards is good for the ticket. I'm not so arrogant as to think that because happy-talk does not float my boat, that it doesn't float the boat of others. I fully support the ticket and will try to get as many people as I can to vote for it.

I don't have to be "inspired" to know that Kerry/Edwards is far and away better than what we have now.

By a low count, non-contributing poster who says:

"Nothing in his speech tugged at my heartstrings. Frankly, I don't want to even imagine this guy as president. That scares me."

Not your garden variety criticism, is it?

So your defense of him here:

"The original poster simply said he found Edwards uninspiring. He did not imply he would not vote Dem. He just doesn't find the man interesting."

Isn't quite accurate, is it?

Fair, honest criticism is one thing, and I'll agree with you. Posting "wedgies", as the OP did, is another...

... that is a fair counter. The "scares me" comment is a bit much. But in general, I find that people dont' want *any* criticism of our candidates, and that annoys me as much as the fools who come here and say "I can't vote for X because he voted for Y".

If you litmus test is one freaking vote, well, give up voting at all, nobody is perfect.

I'd be silent.

Bush scares me. Not Edwards. But the thought of seeing his innocent face juxtaposed with the thought that he could be president, is unsettling, to me. It's what I don't know about him. And that's why I posted this.

That is MY point to you.

"I feel like I just took on the entire United States. I posted a legit question, and got an avalanche back. So much for a first starter post."

You didn't post a legit question, you made a statement:

"Frankly, I don't want to even imagine this guy as president. That scares me."

And this:

"Even in an open minded forum such as this one, there are things I don't dare say. I'd get flamed. I'll say there are things about him that indicate he just doesn't get it. "

Care to elaborate?

Even if I believe that your choice of words was because you are imperfect, how can you expect people NOT to react to your words? You can't have it both ways...

For the record, I believe you posted this for reasons that have nothing to do with your confusion or desire to have Edwards explained to you. Backpeddle all you want, but don't expect us not to call bullshit.

It was not his niche. He is used to speaking (so well that other attorneys come to here his summations) before 12 people. Here he is in a place that is huge and is SRO. Not that he was intimidated but ...Also. he had a certain amount of time and seemed to be rushing to get through. That's the problem with scheduling the events. But, still how could you not be touched when he talked about children in a country as rich as ours going to bed hungry; or the mother sitting at the kitchen table worrying...It doesn't have to be this way. I loved his speech and him and his family. What dolls those two little ones are!

"I mean the very idea that in a country of our wealth and our prosperity, we have children going to bed hungry. We have children who don't have the clothes to keep them warm. We have millions of Americans who work full-time every day for minimum wage to support their family and still live in poverty -- it's wrong.

These are men and women who are living up to their part of the bargain: working hard and taking care of their families. Those families are doing their part; it's time we did ours."

If that doesn't help you to like John Edwards, then I'm not sure that anything he said would.

Beyond the obvious (change leadership) I still haven't heard how. Optimism is a good start, but how is this going to be done? More faith based initiatives?

raising the minimum wage. Yeah, there's a lot of specifics that I'd like to hear too, but after 4 years of Bush pandering to millionaires( "my base" ) it's about time that someone told America that it's OUR responsibility to lift people out of poverty.

At least we should have been marching countless times over the past four years. Because of the mass media, most voters are clueless to the sources of our anger. They look upon us as delusional.

Media control over the news keeps *'s approval ratings in the mid- or high-40s, when it should realistically be in the mid- or upper 30s. The Democratic Party is more unified than it has been in generations so it makes more sense than ever to reach out to the undecided/uninformed. I think Edwards did a splendid job in reaching out to this group and while still keeping true to core liberal principles.

* has proven the danger of ideologues in positions of power. The challenge of progressives is to persuade and organize all working people before we resemble too closely a banana republic. If life in America starts resembling life during the Great Depression, then it will be easy to start a populist revolt. Kerry/Edwards are our best shot at avoiding that fate.

that so didnt wnat kerry, were willing to go to edwards or dean.

that is a good thing

I needed it. I spent a lot of time watching Dean and Clark. Edwards isn't my first pick.
I'm the kind of person who doesn't want the taylored speech. But I'm only one percent of America. I want action.

And another thing- I feel that the responses to my jagged and somewhat sharp post, are conscientious. I feel a sense of party. There appears to be less division amongst us than before Bush took office.

Having nearly been in tears for the majority of the convention, his speach didn't strike me as I expected it to.

My honest thoughts have been that Kerry and Edwards just might make the best team we've seen yet.

Time's up- the convention is about to begin again! :)

but by tomorrow I hope to see you post a reason for me to like Kerry. I hope I don't, but think I might still need it. ;)

Your work here is done.

This guy is a star and addresses all the issues I am concerned with.