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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 11:49 AM
Original message
John Kerry's statement on his Iraq War vote
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 11:51 AM by noahmijo
I am so sick and tired of both rw pundits and far leftists screaming over and over again "well ya know Kerry voted for the war so ya know he's just as bad as Bush/flip-flopper cause well..he supports the war!"

"Well right-wing talking head 1, you know Kerry voted for the war so that doesn't sit well with the anti-war Democrats here" -typical Fox News exchange

AHhhhh!! the depts of lowness that these scumbags well stoop to.

They're trying to portray Kerry as though he's no less of a bloodthirsty monster than Bush because that's all these bastards have left. "Our guy is no worse than your guy!" ::thumbs up::

Okay this needs to be shown again. Send this to the rw media, show this in the faces of all conservatives who claim that Kerry voted for the war but is now against it showing that he is a total flip-flopper:

Here is probably the most stinging quote from Kerry:



See the entire speech here:

http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html
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democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm slam-faxing this
to the media.

Over and over and over and...well you get the idea.

Is that on a T-shirt yet? Should be.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. This entire issue gets a viscious wedgie vote from me!
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Bowline Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good find.
You propably won't see this quoted on Fox News, eh?
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. You'll probably see Mr. Starr's photo from post 2 on FOX News...
...before you see Kerry's quote. ;)
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Where was this when the primaries were being debated?
Oh man, I and many others could have used this quote badly back then here at DU!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It was posted many times here at DU.
Some people absorbed it, and some didn't see it , while others saw it and ignored it because it didn't fit their argument.

mzmolly graciously posted it again last week.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Our fingers were bleeding,
weren't they blm, from posting that statement over and over and over. lol. I just have to throw my hands up and say "it's all good". Can't wait for tonight, I'm pins and needles!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. LOL. My blood couldn't get past the callouses.
;))))))))))

"...in order to form a more perfect union..."

'Let's go get those Bush bastards."
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. I cannot be credited with this find entirely (update)
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 12:23 PM by noahmijo
Someone else posted this link awhile ago, I forget who it was, but if you see this you know who you are feel free to come forward :)

It was mzmolly who I stole this from. Thanks again mzmolly!

I bookmarked it though just for occassions like this when the right seems to building up the big momentum for this lie and false image that Kerry voted for the war in full support of * and is now a flip flopper for being against it.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. So, when is Kerry going to "speak out" as he promised?
So far, all he has offered is a "me too" to Bush's occupation plan. At least Rockefeller had the guts to say he was wrong to have voted for the IWR.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. "Mr. President, DO NOT RUSH TO WAR."
"Let the weapons inspectors finish their work."

"Bring in our allies..."

None of that rings a bell for you? I heard it dozens of times.
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never_get_over_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well sorry but I'm one of those lefties who believe
John Kerry voted the way he did to cover his ass becasue he was runnig for President - and so did John Edwards. That said I FULLY SUPPORT Kerry/Edwards. But I listened to Democrats that I had loved and respected for years one after the other get up and give speeches on the floor of the Senate which after hearing them was sure that they would go vote against the resolution and then went and gave authority to that mad man in the White House. I remember this quite clearly because each and everyone of them broke my heart - and I almost left the party that night - From the date of this quote I imagine it was from Kerry's floor speech.

Flame me if you like but alot of these Dem votes were for political cover - nothing will convince me other wise. I knew from listening to Scott Ritter a weapons inspector - expert and far from a Democratic supporter - before the invasion he said there were no WMDs there - "they" wouldn't let him testify - because he was not going to say what "they" wanted to hear. But if I knew what Scott Ritter's opinions were than John Kerry, John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schummer, Robert Wexler and many many more who broke my heart that evening should have known too. SHAME on all of them.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Good! I'm glad to see this now. Thank you!
I'm sure Kerry's speech will be masterful tonight and get all this message out and more.
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AngryLizard Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I think it was both
My thoughts when it happened was, yeah, they're trying to cover their asses, just in case it was true. Seriously, Colin Powell's speech almost convinced me it was true, and God only knows what other information Congress had access to. I mean, Clinton even thought they might have had WMD, so it's not that much of a longshot.

But they only gave Bush authorization to use military force, a. If Sadaam blocked the inspectors, b. If our allies got on board. Instead, Bush said to hell with the inspectors, to hell with our allies, I'm going in anyway, with no corroborating evidence that Sadaam had anything. In fact, with the just the opposite -- the inspectors kept saying that he didn't have anything.

What convinced me that they didn't have WMD is that they didn't use them against us.

This whole thing is just fucked up from top to bottom.
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nyhuskyfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. They didn't even have a Scuds
In 1991, they launched dozens of Scud missles. They weren't even organized enough to do mundane things like blow up bridges to slow us down. And when we reached Baghdad, there was nothing there to get in a way.

I've heard interviews with three soldiers who asked about wearing chemical suits or something on the approach to Baghdad, and their commanding officers said, "Don't worry. We don't need them." Now, that could just be the commanding officer trying to eliminate fear in his men, but perhaps the higher-ups in the military knew full well that Saddam's cupboard was bare.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. exactly what....
did the authorization say? Did it actually say that Bush is ONLY AUTHORIZED TO INVADE IRAQ if Saddam blocks the inspectors and if our allies got on board?
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. sorry, but I still think that vote was a f***ing DISGRACE
Kerry expected this out of an incompetent bastard who STOLE THE ELECTION????????
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. it's good but it's not enough
this talking point must be shot down! it's not hard to do. there's another thread up and runnin' that has lots of info. about this vote...
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. I still think the IWR was very unwise, however Kerry's statement is far
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 12:59 PM by G_j
more measured and thoughtful than most of those who signed. We should give him that much credit at least.
Reading Edwards' statement in comparison, I am very glad the ticket is not reversed. Edwards' statement was very hawkish and did not reflect the experience of someone who has seen war first hand IMO.

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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. And for those who need additional clarification

MATTHEWS: Were we right to go to Iraq?
KERRY: Not the way the president did it. Clearly, no, because he didn't plan for how to win the peace. He didn't build the kind of coalition he said he would. He didn't keep his promises to the American people. He promised he would respect the U.N. He promised he would, in fact, build an international coalition and he promised he would go to war as a last resort. And, Chris, one of the great lessons I learned in Vietnam is the meaning of the words last resort. I think the test for a president as to whether or not you send young men or women anywhere to fight is whether you can look in the eyes of parents if you lose one of them and say to those parents, I tried to do everything in my power to avoid this happening to your child. But we had no choice for the security of our country. I believe the president of the United States fails that test in Iraq.
MATTHEWS: Would you have gone to war with Iraq if the U.N. had supported it?
KERRY: Well, we...
MATTHEWS: Well?
KERRY: The answer the answer is very simply yes. If the U.N. had supported it, there was a very...
MATTHEWS: Would you have gone to war if the U.N. had not supported it?
KERRY: If I were president at the time?
MATTHEWS: Right. Right.
KERRY: I would have made the judgment of whether or not to go to war, which is what a president is supposed to do. The United States of America should never be perceived as or never should go to war because we want to. We should go to war because we have to.
MATTHEWS: Did we have to go to Iraq?
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Did we have to go?
KERRY: ....until you've exhausted the remedies of....
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you. Howard Dean is opposed to going to Iraq. He's simple. Absolutely, bottom line, against the war.
KERRY: Well, he's not, actually....
MATTHEWS: Joe Lieberman is for the war. Dick Gephardt is for the war, John Edwards sat right there last week and he is still for the war despite the bad intelligence he got. He says, I'm still for the war. How are you different than Dean on this issue?
KERRY: Let me correct you. Howard Dean is not clear and he is not simple. He has, in fact, embraced several positions. One of which is the Biden-Lugar amendment which, in fact, gave authorization to the president but under a slightly different wrinkle than the one we passed. Howard Dean also said he believed there were weapons of mass destruction. He believed that Colin Powell was correct. Now the question that has to be asked is, once you've come to that conclusion, what are you going to do about it? What you should do about it is precisely what I and Tom Harkin and Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and a whole bunch of us thought we should do. Which is, go to the United Nations. Properly go through the inspection process. Build a legitimate international coalition and, in fact, exhaust the remedies available to you. And if you need to go to war, you go to war because you have a sense that the country has come to the point where it has no other option. I don't believe the president did that.
MATTHEWS: Would you have gone to war if the French had said under no circumstances we would go to war with you?
KERRY: I would do whatever is necessary to protect the security of the United States.
MATTHEWS: We're going in circles here.
KERRY: No, we're not going in circles.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: In retrospective, Dean says, I think it was wrong to go to war. In retrospect, Lieberman says we were right to go to war. Dick Gephardt says we were right to go to war. John Edwards says we're right to go to war. General Clark says we're not right to get to war go to war. Where are you in that with that kind of clarity?
KERRY: I just answered I answered your question.
MATTHEWS: Were we right to have gone to war?
KERRY: I answered your question right up front. I said to you....
MATTHEWS: Well, yes or no?
KERRY: I said no.
Not under the circumstances he went. I told you that, Chris.
MATTHEWS: So were we wrong to go to Iraq in war?
KERRY: The way the president did it, yes.
MATTHEWS: What was the right way to go to war?
KERRY: As a last resort, when you exhaust the remedies available to you and you have proven that you have to do it because there is no other alternative.
In other words, in Iraq, we had a legitimate threat, according to every intelligence indicator we were given. But we hadn't built the coalition. We didn't have a plan to win the peace. The president rushed to war. I said so at the time. I said I would have preferred that he did more diplomacy. I don't know how you can be more clear than that.
http://www.csgv.org/document.cfm?documentID=139
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. What's done is done
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 01:12 PM by camero
But make no mistake, if a President Kerry continues or increases the Iraq War, he will be viewed as an LBJ and not a JFK. People will forget that this was Bush's War and it will become Kerry's War and the right wing will be all over it.

He should bring the troops home pronto or it may spell doom for the Dems. He should be very careful on this issue. The Patriot Acts should also be repealed pronto or he will also be open to attack as a totalitarian. The pubies will be screaming that he's communist.

Just my 2 cents.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. This I can agree with
We'll see what happens. My personal hope is that Kerry gets the UN involved we get troops from other countries, essentially we get the world involved and little by little our troops start to come home.

That's the most reaslistic scenario I forsee.

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bush won this round...like it or not
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 01:30 PM by Solly Mack
the sheer fact that a vote is on record won't change just because the vote is dressed up in highminded language. Bush never had any intentions of doing anything other than what he did. Everyone knows this whether admitting it is comfortable for them or not. Though people were ranting about it not even a year ago. My how times change.

Everyone talks about the "strategy" of it all and how it's "how politics is played" to excuse votes.....but they don't seem to be able to see the strategy of the GOP or credit a GOP trump with "that's just how politics is played"

well, guess what? The GOP knew this vote would come back to haunt any democratic candidate..they used strategy...they played politics. They played the patriotic card. They put everyone in congress on notice that they would call them unamerican if they didn't vote to give Bush what he wants...and it's little comfort and it didn't change anything by inserting a caveat that Bush had to meet certain conditions...because unless Bush is held accountable for not following those guidelines and meeting those conditions, the language was meaningless. So far, Bush hasn't been held accountable by the one governing body that could hold him accountable..yeah, sure..it's a GOP controlled governing body...but don't think for a minute that that wasn't taken into account when the GOP played out their strategy.

The GOP put the democratic party between a rock and a hard place..they did indeed..but let's not pretend we didn't know Bush was a liar. Let's not pretend we didn't know Bush would do anything and everything to have his way. Let's not pretend we didn't know Bush intended to go to war with Iraq before he was even selected...recall the republican platform from 2000? They go after Iraq in it. Let's not pretend a yes vote can be defended...because it can't. The invasion was wrong..nothing changes that or excuses that.

A no vote would not have stopped the invasion...but let's not pretend voting yes was the right thing to do.

Yes, it's politics. Yes, it was the best strategy for anyone aspiring to be President...but that didn't make it right for the country. The long run won't bring back a single dead soldier or a single dead Iraqi. It's a dark mark on our country..and no amount of spinning will change that.

What some call politics and stratgey has resulted in the senseless slaughter of people.

Nothing will change that. Nothing will bring them back..but goddammit, let's not pretend that playing politics doesn't get people killed.

It's on record. It's covered in blood. Own that god damn vote already.

and spare me your outrage...the needless slaughter of humans ought to outrage you more.

I'm voting for Kerry. I own that vote. I take responsibility for that vote. I'll wear the stink for all the mistakes he might make because I did vote for him. But by gawds, I'm not pretending.












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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. well said!
:-)
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AngryLizard Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. And actually, I wish a democrat would point out
When they've got a winger in their face talking about how Kerry voted for the war, that their President is the one that got us into this mess IN THE FIRST PLACE. And then to calmly add that almost 1,000 Americans have been killed, tens of thousands of Iraqis,and that now Iraq is a hotbed of terrorist activity, which it certainly wasn't before we invaded.

The question isn't why Kerry now against a war he voted for. The question is why George Bush isn't.
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