Al Franken re Rush Limbaugh: we need "mutual respect for the truth"

Al Franken Says About Rush Limbaugh, "All Debate Has to Start With a Mutual Respect for the Truth"

For the audio, go to MoveLeft Media at moveleft.com,
http://www.moveleft.com/moveleft_essay_2004_08_03_the_al_franken_limbaugh_mutual_respect_truth.asp


Today, Al Franken played his friend a clip of Rush Limbaugh telling his listeners that Johm Kerry's acceptance speech never mentions The War on Terror.

Then Franken played numerous clips from the acceptance speech of John Kerry talking about The War on Terror.

Franken implied that Limbaugh wasn't making an honest mistake: either Limbaugh was lying to his listeners, or Limbaugh was being grossly indifferent to the truth.

Mark Luther admitted that Limbaugh was wrong about the Kerry speech.

Franken then asked his friend how he can keep supporting Limbaugh:
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AL FRANKEN: Rush has so much contempt for his listeners. He has contempt for you. Because day after day after day after day, he pulls stuff out of his butt that isn't true, and...he's not held accountable for it. No, you don't hold him accountable for it. For you it's just, "Ok...that was wrong, but..."
...Why does he (Rush Limbaugh) say something like that?

He either knows it isn't true, or-he can't possibly know that it's true?...There is certainly no certainty there on his part of "I'm going to tell the truth now."


...Why do you hold him to such a low standard, and... why don't you feel insulted that he holds his audience in such contempt?

Because what he's doing is manipulating his audience.

He is not serving his audience, he is manipulating his audience.

MARK LUTHER: Well, it's a tough question Al, and you're not going to like the answer, because you've done a good job of pointing out his misstatements when he makes them, or untruths, about whatever you want to call it.

But...I'm still convinced-and I think about it often, for example, after our conversation, yesterday- philosphically, I believe he's preaching the right way about the way of the world.

AL FRANKEN: Ok, well, I don't know what to say about it.

I think that all debate has to start with a mutual respect for the truth.

And I don't think Rush Limbaugh has that, Mark, I really don't...

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http://moveleft.com

He DOES have contempt for them. The common Limbaugh phrase "You People" is an indicator of someone who has contempt for those he is talking to.

My friend was telling me that about 10 or so years ago on April Fool's Day, he and his boss were listening to Limbaugh's show while on the job. Apparently Rush went on for most of the show about how the different races shouldn't mix for the benefit of the country. He said countless people called in and voiced their support for that idea. Finally, at the end of the show, Limbaugh admitted that it was all a joke, and was actually suprised that he people fell so hard for it.

Maybe he refers to people who disagree with him as "you people," but I think he usually uses the word "friends" to address his listeners.

They are just too stupid to realize how demeaning this is.

right prefers their people ... ill-informed ...zero critical thinking.

They resist discussing the subject, but when pressed, they say pretty much the same thing as Mark Luther:

But...I'm still convinced-and I think about it often, for example, after our conversation, yesterday- philosphically, I believe he's preaching the right way about the way of the world.

There's a subtext here, and we're not in on it. It's as if George W. Bush had a conference on another dimension where he told a whole lot of people something so remarkable, so startling, that they are determined to revere him as a god and believe everything that he and his supporters say.

This isn't a campaign. It's a religious mission. Bush supporters are evangelists spreading the word. We're not in on it. I think they're spreading the word about us - non-believers in the Bush revolution.

The whole thing is like a case of mass hypnosis or mass hysteria. And why is it a secret? Wouldn't they want to tell the world why they support their Beloved Leader? I guess if you have to ask, you must be the Enemy.

on the home page.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/08/03_passion.html

n/m

Also called "Lying."

I had a revelation a couple of weeks ago. I was was listening to a co worker talk about how the news is so unfair and how they don't report on all of the "good" stuff going on it Iraq. They looked at me and said "Right?" I replied, "They don't have enough hours in a day to report all of the news in Iraq and include the "good" things, unless you watch FOX. To which she replied "That's what I did! I just watch FOX now." BINGO!!!!!!! If you don't like what you hear - keep looking until you find someone that will tell you what you WANT to hear. RUN AWAY FROM REALITY because it doesn't fit in your version of the way the world should be!

it's an affluent country," in a previous audio clip played on Franken's show, so you're right about putting pleasant notions above the truth.

the Lord beats all, it's their basic premise that people are inherently full of sin, greedy, envious, lustful, and above all lazy! They just want to live off the hard work of others who also happen to be full of sin, greedy, envious, lustful but maybe not as lazy.
Lying is ok with them because it is a minor sin done for the better good, turning our society back to...well basically the Middle Ages when God and Power ruled and kept the peasants in check
through ignorance, disease and fear and Crusades against the Infidel were the name of the game!

:grr:

will always drink deep the koolaide....not worth tryin' to reason with them ,
although it's somewhat amusing when Al tries to show his ditto head friend the light.

DIDO Monkey

It never has.

But that doesn't mean, like Franken implied last night on Letterman, that a person on the public airwaves should be able to pull "facts" out of their butt and broadcast them with impunity- without rebuttal. Yet that's what's been happening for around about 15 years now.

It seems to me that our strength is their weakness- if we play it right. Progressive ideas come from critical thinking- looking at various sources and figuring out not only what the credible facts are and what they point to, but also how to get to where we all want to go. (all except the fringe elements on the "religious right").

Put on an even playing field, I've never met a contemporary far-right Republican who could hold their own in a rational discussion of public policy- Not one. They paint by numbers- which is fine for little kids... so long as they don't get stuck in it.

Which seems to me to be exactly how Rush Limbaugh's audience sees the world. Paint by numbers. It's so easy- and it can appear beautiful, but for those who want to color beyond the lines... or who want to be artists and make their own lines, what's left?

That last paragraph is some fine writing.
John
Well done!!

I've debated many a times with people fundamentally committed to truth. First of all not all issues are matters of black and white deduction. Some are inferential and two reasonable people can disagree honestly without lying about any facts and without sacrificing a basic commitment to truthfulness. But its also possible for two people to debate even a matter of black and white facts and both be committed to the respect for the truth.

You know what happens in cases like that? One person eventually says, "you know what I think you might be right about that, it seems I may have been mistaken on certain tings, I'm glad we had this discussion! That gave me a lot to think about I hadn't thought of before. I'm happy to be closer to the truth." And guess what I had that EXACT kind of debate with someone just last night. That happens all the time. Don't let politics and the media so poison you to the fact that human beings are capable of higher standards of living together than what we currently have. Just because civil honest discourse has become more rare in recent times does not mean it is impossible and does not mean it never has been.

He doesn't care if Rush lies, as long as he is helping to achieve the cause.

And what is that cause they will do any dirty trick to accomplish?
The people at the top want power and money of course.

For the masses, the goal is merely shutting down any voice or movement of dissent, difference, independence, non conformity.They are totalitarians who want total control. They have no positive goals that I can see. They just want any disturbing element to be eliminated in their lives. They think it's their right.

And they couldn't be more wrong.

...are identical in means, if not in ends, to the worst of the Leninists.

The vanguard Party's leading role in the State must be preserved by any means necessary.

He's gathered a band of "true believers" over the years that blame everything wrong in their lives on "liberals". When the truth doesn't support that charge, he simply makes it up out of whole cloth.

And his listeners love him for it.

People here are always asking how it is that the Republican politicians and pundits always get away with lying - and are never held to any standards of honesty by their followers.

This clip vividly shows how it works.

If you're interested, here is my analysis of what is going on here:

1) Republicans have transformed their party and turned it into a quasi-religious type experience - an ideology. They have taken elements of conservatism and religion and wrapped those ideologies into their politics. They did this on purpose. In that way Republicans are now generally addicted to holding ideological ideas (memes) in their minds that constitute a strong Republican world-view.

2) Like any addiction, they derive good feelings when they experience those ideas - they feel bad when they hear or experience ideas that oppose their ideology.

3) The feelings associated with their ideology are much stronger than the feelings they may get from searching for or hearing the truth. They have an ideological personality. Be careful though, some on the left also have an ideological personality.

4) They easily forgive anyone who spouts their ideology and feel hatred toward anyone who speaks the truth that opposes their ideology.

Here are Mark's final words - which I find so revealing.

MARK LUTHER: Well, it's a tough question Al, and you're not going to like the answer, because you've done a good job of pointing out his misstatements when he makes them, or untruths, about whatever you want to call it.

But...I'm still convinced-and I think about it often, for example, after our conversation, yesterday- philosophically, I believe he's preaching the right way about the way of the world.


It's all about those addictive feelings that wash through them when their ideology is massaged - that makes them feel so good, so in-control of their lives, so right about the world. It's a particular personality type. It's that simple. When you understand this you'll understand what we are dealing with in America and how these people have taken over our government. Now go back and listen again.

Here's a link to a more complete explanation:

http://www.geocities.com/margimcghee/brains.htm

didn't jump out at me until you mentioned it.

You have a good point that maybe Mark Luther's pro-Rush Limbaugh politics have a religous sensation for him, which is why he used the word "preaching."

. . I read your comment. But you are right. There it is.

Also, see what Al says:

AL FRANKEN: Ok, well, I don't know what to say about it. I think that all debate has to start with a mutual respect for the truth.

Al seems to think that his friend would (or should) agree with that. That's why we liberals have such a hard time understanding how the Republicans have gained so many followers. We think that statement is self-evident. Like, how could it be otherwise?

But for most Republicans these days debate starts and ends with being on the right side - the side that supports their ideology. All the rest is a diversion to them. If you believe in their ideology - then whatever you do or say is correct - and that has absolutely nothing to do with reality or truth.

Republicans don't see the world the way most liberals do. It's like living in two different worlds with languages that are completely incomprehensible to the other side.

When we understand that we'll have a better ability to defend ourselves - and take back our country.

Check this out if you get a chance:

http://www.geocities.com/margimcghee/brains.htm