Ok - I'll cut to the chase - should I quit the Knights of Columbus?

I joined because I like their work in charities and their altruisctic campaigns. I ignored their anti abortion stance as inconsequential compared to their other charity work. Bush's speech at our convention and the bullshit enthusiastic stance for someone who opposes Catholicism in general and goes against the Pope and the church was galling to me.

How can I be a brother to people who cheer "4 more years" to a murderer?


Should I quit?


(please keep in mind this is not a thread about the Church but about the K of C)

can do charity work for.

I'm done with these bozos!

Then you shouldn't feel guilty about it. If you're at peace with your faith in the Catholic Church, which from what I can tell you are o.k. with their positions on things you disagree with, then I don't necessarily see why you should feel you have to quit K of C. If you can overlook it to see the good in the church then you could easily do the same with K of C if you really wanted to. I'm sure if Bush were to speak at a Catholic Church rally he would get a similar reception due to the pro-life issue.

O.K. I know you said this wasn't about the church so I apologize for bringing it up. But it was mostly to explain why I don't think you should feel you have to quit. You've obviously made peace with one entity so no reason not to with the other.

and more my conscieous is pushing against them. I feel there are other organizations to put my energies ttoward. I liked the idea of a fraternal brotherhood to be there for me when I got older (they were founded as an organization to take for Catholic widows who got left high and dry after their husbands died) - They claimed non-partisanship and I believed them. I feel betrayed!

..believe me, if ME of all people are encouraging you to consider staying with a catholic organization of any kind that's pretty big. But it's one of those things that only you can decide.

you have been kind and helpful
:)

which has gone very right-wing lately. Many good Catholics do not belong to it.

I believe this outweighs their efforts to overturn Roe v. Wade. The K of C are certainly preferable to the F & AM, with their mystical claptrap that requires swearing allegiance to 'brother masons' over EVERYTHING up to and including faith in God. Their camaraderie includes sharing of information between members who are police officers - across jurisdictional lines.

While I think you could send a message by quitting and you could use your time and money effectively elsewhere, I still believe the best way to effect change is usually from the inside. Your call. If you feel you can work for change in the organization, by all means stay and fight - we need more people who are willing to do so.

To answer your poll, I, myself, would probably quit mostly because I can't stand to have my name associated with organizations that don't represent my values.

They represent some of my values but not enough!

Thanks

Can you speak out as a Young Knight--at least to encourage the order to remain non-partisan?

maybe we have some clout, but I dought theyd adopt my views

They are frankly unAmerican.

hmmmmmm

Having the guys with swords at my wedding was a big draw. i'm serious

of course you must let them know in no uncertain terms WHY you are quitting.

My universe has just turned upside down. I can't possibly give you advice on it in this condition. ;)

I think I've made up my mind.

I wanted the funny hat guys at my wedding - I'm sorry! :)

Go to your next meeting, let them know how you've enjoyed meeting them, (add sugar and stir), but that you can't continue to be part of a group that supports a man who endangers everything you believe in..Etc.

Or else, stay, bring many friends, and conduct an 'inside takeover'.

I personally don't think you can fault them for their stand on abortion -- it IS a religious group, after all, and is supposed to be aligned with teachings of the pope -- but blind support for the warlord-in-charge doesn't have to be part of the equation.

It would be nice if there was a focal point for the left-wing side of the Catholic church these days..I know there are some liberation-theology-supporters among the ranks, but they are quiet about it and perhaps unable to organize? Or people like 'Father Roy'.. to bring into the discussions at KofC.

Check out the Catholic Worker - they're WAY left

http://www.catholicworker.org/

Sounds like they're turning in to a Conservative Christian Right organization instead of a Catholic one.

Does anyone have their main address so that I can write to them? BTW, my dad was a Knight and I am a Catholic but am so outraged over the Catholic Church lately ... uugh!

Knights of Columbus Headquarters
1 Columbus Plaza
New Haven, CT 06510
(203) 752-4000
Email: info@kofc.org

and so is all of Christianity, and all of God's children, according to the Gospels.
(Anti-Catholics please lay off of this one for now, this is for ChavezSpeaks and any of his sympathisers. The rest of you can bash Catholic Priests on other threads and I might even join in a bit...)
I forget the line, but Jesus said something like "in God's house there are many mansions", meaning, there are many ways of being Christian, including many ways of being Catholic. (And by implication, this means that all kinds of non-Christians have their own mansions with God. The point of the "Good Samaritan" was that he belonged to a "heathen" religion but was still a good man, close to God. Jesus was a liberal, one of the best...oh and if non-Christians can be close to God, I suppose so can some Catholic Priests... :-)
(Native Catholic here so yes I know about some of the subtleties of Catholicism, and so do you, ChavezSpeaks.)
The K of C are NOT the only Catholic fraternity around, formal or informal.
Is the "Swords into Plowshares" movement still going? Father Berrigan and those guys, the wonderfully crazy pacifist Priests who get arrested at nuclear weapons sites?
I know the Catholic Church take a lot of flak on DU - some deserved, some unfair - but it's a HUGE and diverse church and you can find your own brothers/sisters of like mind there and be true to the sacramental faith according to your own conscience, as you choose.
And I wonder - well, if the K of C carry swords, then how does this square up with Jesus saying "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword?" :-)

Thanks jdonaldball - that was well put!

:hi:

It's the closest you can get to being a musketeer!

:hi:

Don't just leave...be sure they know WHY you are leaving.

...scheduled meeting and politely share my views on the matter with them.

I used to do work for them.

They help people down on their luck, and I believe they are a Catholic charity.

support a group that is against abortion? Abortion and birth control are the two things that give a woman freedom so that she is not a slave to her own body.

Dump this organization INSTANTLY.

Lots of religious denominations work together in staffing community soup kitchens and such so perhaps that's what confused you.

Opus Dei leanings...I would find the liberal members in your church and since there seem to be quite a few parishes in most areas, I would seek out other liberal members at other parishes....if nothing else, you could form a NEW group to compete with the causes the K of C seems to have a lock on...that is...if you have the energy. I assume there must be one or two more like minded people in your group?

and don't get involved in abortion politics (and now gay marriage politics). Try working with one of those. I used to just ignore them, but Knights have really been getting on my nerves lately.

Gotta be something more in tune with you, or at least nonpartisan.

and then I have to hear this crap on NPR :grr:

I'm concentrating on finding other orgs

....and you do have it right that junior is a murderer many times over.

BTW thank you for your research even though it didn't produce results.

I sent a letter to the K of C strongly protesting this bullshit!

I see no flames yet on this thread, which is about a Catholic matter.
Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!
Three cheers for DU and tolerance!
Hurrah for DU, religious pluralism and liberal solidarity!
:-)

but we could be jinxing ourseves right now ;)

stay. Be up front about your dislike of Bush. Maybe you'll convert a few of them to our side.

MzPip
:dem:

At 29 I am very young as far as knights go

what you said, "I ignored their anti abortion stance as inconsequential compared to their other charity work."-----------

preempted what was going to be my suggestion, which was (going to be), you can accomplish more by STAYING and advocating with those you MIGHT be able to influence, that the Church's Lib social justice agenda shares 99 issues with the Dem Party and differs on the SINGLE ISSUE of choice.

But frankly, you/we canNOT make significant inroads with fanatics. There is NO rapprochement possible on certain topics and with certain mindsets. The first poster said there are other organizations you can share true fellowship with. I'm going with that answer.

And thanks for being such a conscientious, caring, and community minded person.

Do God's work!!!

change things from within.

:eyes: They hide behind religion, too.

(a trick as old as Catholicism, I might add. 80% of European nobility in the Middle Ages did it).

Just because they claim to be an organization for Catholic values does not mean they really are. There are plenty of other organizations you can support.

We're all quick to jump to the defense of the Church when the attack comes from outside. Why should we chicken out when the attack comes from within? The K of C started out as both a bootstrap group (make plans to protect your family) and an outreach group (take care of the widow and orphan). They still do a lot of good at the parish level. The leadership is still stuck in some mid fifties fantasy land and the member ship has been too polite to speak up about it.It's time for the K of C to stop being an enabler for right wing bishops.

By the way , in case you decide your chapter's charitable works are too important to risk a major fight, why not join or start a chapter of Voice of the Faithful as well?

while staying behind means you can still exert some influence.

My dad was a dedicated Knight for many years, but i loathed the organization. Too much piety for me, even when i was a kid.

There are other charitable organizations out there, and many who stay away from inserting themselves, en masse, into the political process.

I say, dump 'em.
The Professor

on NPR this morning. My stomach literally dropped when I heard Bush introduced as having "restored morality" to our country, and the place erupted into cheers. What planet do these people live on where uneccessary murder and lying about absolutely everything is considered moral as long as you're against choice and gays?

I say find a more all-encompassing org. to give your time, energy and money to. The Knights of Columbus sound like they're to the right of the Baptists. If many of their members take a stand against what they are promoting with their pro-Bu$h rhetoric, they will hopefully take another look at what they're espousing.

leaving that organization should have no affect on your faith or church attendance.

Remember that the Knights who attend the convention are the ones who are heavily involved with the organization and that seems to mean more conservative. So the cheers are annoying but not surprising.

Why can't there be a movement to liberalize the K of C? I'm sure some local chapters are more liberal than others, anyway.

Jesus NEVER said "Vote Republican."

Part of me says that it's always positive for a progressive person to get involved in organizations where he/she is not in the majority, and thus to influence said organizations.

Then again, there are plenty of progressive Catholic organizations to involve oneself with, so the idea of getting involved with Catholic Worker also appeals to me.

This business of Bush trying to pose as some sort of Catholic president REPULSES me beyond words, especially since he also simply picks and chooses what elements of Catholicism he wants to support and which he will conveniently ignore. There are some readings from Isaiah and James that would really make him squirm in the pew, were to wander into church when we're on that particular cycle.

Anyway, don't let the nasty Bush person stop you from being K of C, if that's where your heart truly is. Bush will not be around forever, and it's possible your connection to the K of C will do more good in the long run than you might imagine.

I would advise you explore many charities, and find one compatible with your personal mission that is less political.

I find some of their NAtional values to be offensive. However, at the local level, Boy Scouting Deals with the "real" values of Scouting.

I am able to bypass the National policies easily and still provide the good of the organziation to the Scouts in my troop.

by the way, Chavez, I did get a chance to listen to Jill - beautiful, just lovely! I'm going to buy one of her CDs.