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Goddammit! I'm posting my response to Grover anyway!

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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:43 PM
Original message
Goddammit! I'm posting my response to Grover anyway!
Edited on Wed Aug-04-04 03:43 PM by Selwynn
I didn't spend all that time writing it for nothing! SO THERE! :D


#1, #4, #5 are dead wrong, #2 and #3 there are some "valid" points - that no Democrat is denying. The UN, like practically any other organization in the world, has room for improvement. It's still the right way to go. France, while not being "perfect" still comes down on the right side on a lot of things, and fueling this stupid America-against-France mindset is pretty sad.

As to your other points, I think your deeply wrong. First of all, I think you've got some serious, serious study to do on the subject of affirmative action. What does "it should be economic-based" mean? Are you saying that society should be based on the principle that says if you are wealthy and affluent then you have certain rights and when you are poor and destitute you don't?" Secondly, your point presumes an equal playing field in which a black woman has the exact same access and opportunity to better her life that a white man has. But we know, and can prove that even in 2004, that is NOT American today. All things are not equal. It is the responsibility of just society to do what it can to compensate for those inequities while at the same time working toward a day when society really will treat a black woman and a white man with the same level of equality.

As far as the NEA is concerned, you are right - you're not a big expert on this. You should try to become one. You can tell the health of any great society in the history of the world by two key factors: How well it treats its prisoners and how much it supports the arts. You have to believe that art is as important as headstart or health care. You need to break yourself from the belief that we must choose between equally important things. The fact of the matter is, if our priorities were in the right place, we could both fund the arts - which is a bedrock element of healthy society - and pay for health care for all citizens and quality education for all. You're right we need to do those latter things. But we also need to do the former as well. It's a fairly safe bet that you do not define your life as an artist - if you did, you would understand why it is as critical a component of a healthy society as anything else. And you are wrong, it IS fair to expect ANY citizen of this society to fund the BEDROCK PRINCIPLES on which this society is founding - like free expression. What's more, you're first responder is totally correct - I find bombs morally reprehensible, but guess what I still have to pay my taxes.

Finally, the abortion issue: you are in desperate need of some serious research. If you're willing to do it, you'll discover that abortion isn't used as "birth control" in the first place. There is not an epidemic of woman saying, "wow I really want to have sex tonight, and if I get pregnant, hell I'd just go have an incredibly invasive, serious often traumatic procedure casually and for fun. Sorry, but that just doesn't happen in any both the most extreme exception to norm of cases. Also, the I'm not sure what your federal funding thing is about.

I tired to give some comments so that I didn't come off as dismissive. But the summary is, you really have a serious need to do some intense study and research on most of these issues. I fell your understanding of them leaves much to be desired.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Responding to a freep is equivalent to responding to a retarded frog!
MHOP
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. "Retarded Frog"
Keep George W. Bush out of this!!

:-)
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I didn't actually think his post deserved deleting.
I think his posistions, while wrong, were stated decently enough that I had no problem responding to it.

Now, I didn't read the rest of his posts later on, maybe he got more crazy.... :)
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. In general he sounds like he wants to take away our rights..
Rather than let us have more.....
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. I wrote a reply too
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chiburb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Disagree...
The latest trolls have been coming in with "please help me debunk this" or "how do I answer my BIL" or doing as Grover did. Their only purpose is to put RW talking points on DU's board, and don't we have enough of that from our fellow members?
The Mods have been very aggressive this week and I'm happy about it.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I've read a few of this guy's posts...
...and he didn't strike me as a disruptor.

Just a newbie who still held on to a few RW beliefs.

And aren't we here to enlighten the unenlightened? Seems like he was open to that.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. I tend to agree with you. And wrote a post along with you.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Is that the Grover 'Norquist' Clevland to whom you are responding???
Just shrink the government small enough to drag it into the bathtub and drown it.

The 'government is 'we the people' '...how has Grover Norquist decided it is them vs us??? I guess the Corporations do not feel like 'we' even though 'we' have given 'them' 'personhood'?
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. My response
Suck it, Trebek.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. "Dear Scott"...is that really an expression 18 year olds use now?
I am so out of touch.
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lunarboy13 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. You're right...
I got that, too...Dear Scott...18 year old? Don't the people who say "Dear Scott", also say things like, "That's just duckie?"

Personally, I think he should apply for an NEA grant to create works of art that will hang at the UN, but that's just me....
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Meanwhile, welcome to DU lunar!
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wow, Grover got tombstoned!
LOL
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-04 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm always amazed at how ignorant people are about what
the NEA actually does. They parrot the right-wing Mapplethorpe and Serrano stories, but never look any further.

http://www.nea.gov

We're so lucky to have the NEA.
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