Richard Dreyfus statement on McEnroe: "This war is like the lynching of

blacks: it is indefensible and we are going to look back on it and say 'what were we thinking?' You don't attack a country without incontrovertible proof of whatever you are accusing that country of doing." (paraphrasing).
This is one of the clearest statements about Iraq I have heard.

It was so SWEET.

Have I mentioned lately how much I love our intelligent, well spoken celebraties.

:kick:

celebrites generally action hero types: Bruce Willis, Arnie...

chomping on her gum, we ought to blindly follow our leader

I can't think of any off the top of my head as my caffeine hasn't kicked in yet this morning... but, I'm sure there are plenty of empty-headed celebrities on both sides of the political spectrum.

Courtney Love comes to mind.

if she doesn't OD & finally really sobers up, you might see that part of her.

n/t

I know some websites, like Dean's, put up their own transcripts. I have not been able to find one at CNBC. He was very firm on this.

Vietnam. I didn't know that before.

Worked the midnight shift in a hospital for 2 years.

Kanary

:hi:

I had to jump up and shout a mighty "yes!!!"

can't remember hand gestures.....

Kanary, who has a good memory, it's just short......... :)

coming out mid September, i think.

Saw an interview with John Sayles tonite, this movie looks good. Chris Cooper as a bumbling politico - not too subtley based on Boosh.

Sid

that "Whose life is it anyway" was one of the best performances by any actor that I've ever seen.

and plays them well.

Remember the Conservative Senator in "An American President"? Or Al Haig in "The Day Reagan Was Shot" (Showtime movie)?

Hell, he could play a great Dick Cheney if given the chance.

IMHO

than Al Lieter was when trying to defend Bush. Lieter really seemed stupid in comparison. What was it with Dreyfus's girlfriend though? She was all over him. Looked like a total bimbo.

controversy to the program.

I saw the show. With regard to Al Lieter, to me, he didn't come off as the stereotypical, bomb-throwing, closed-minded, right-wing nut job, but rather as someone who could have a reasonable conversation. When he was talking about the possibility of all the WMD just being loaded into a truck and shipped off to some rogue nation, I got the distinct impression that his conclusions were derived from certain "news" sources that were limited in content. I don't fault Lieter for that, as most "news" sources are quite limited as well as exhibiting an agenda antagonistic to the ideals of news.

If Lieter's "news" sources were a bit more broad (left, right, moderate), I got the feeling that Lieter could actually process the info and probably arrive at different conclusions, something many nut jobs wouldn't do. Just a feeling I got. YMMV.

Compared to Dreyfus he seemed outclassed. I also thought when he talked about the trucks being loaded with WMD that he must be getting all his news from Fox or Limbaugh or some source like that. Several experts have already concluded there were no WMD's. I find it increasingly difficult to have patience with people who have not educated themselves and who continue to argue with the conclusions of the experts. No, he did not come across as a nutjob. I thought that aside from his political opinions he seemed nice. He just came across to me like a lot of Bush supporters I know--nice, but just ignorant about facts and not willing to know what the facts are. BTW, I am a Mets fan! LOL.

see my post below :D

great minds and all :D

and ignored the principle of forthrightness.

The people that can look past the masquerade of pretending to abide by the weapons inspectors findings unless that didn't pan out... then invading anyway under the obstinate aegis that WMDs were just well hidden, are advocating corruption and whimsical death-dealing.

The world saw this unfold, and now we are now seen as duplicitous war-mongers. Nobody will trust us for a long, long time.


typo

"I find it increasingly difficult to have patience with people who have not educated themselves..." - depends on the person for me. If I talk to someone with what I believe to be an Al Lieter type mindset, I can usually get to a point that refutes my debating opponent without humiliation. It's just a point or two my opponent is unaware of and causes them to think about. If I talk to someone with, shall we say, a Toby Keith type mindset, then nothing short of a 240 volt line will work. ;)

"...continue to argue with the conclusions of the experts" - This is where I wish Dreyfus followed up on WMD. Could have been a great place to let Lieter know what the scoop actually was. A good talk about lynching, but a follow up was definately called for.

"nice" - yeah, I agree.

"just ignorant about facts" - okay, with you so far.

"not willing to know what the facts are" - nope, ya lost me. Can't prove the intent of "not willing". Lieter may actually think he knows what the facts are. Now, think about that for second. You and I both know about DU, Buzzflash, Daily Howler, "Outfoxed", Prof. Krugman, etc. But most people don't. Consequently, in order to get the truth in this country, it takes work. Sad but true. He may not even be watching Faux. Maybe he's watching NBC and they put some BS Lisa Myers' "Truth Squad" piece on, and he takes it on face value. He may erroneously think he's fully informed. Thus, "not willing" is a stretch I just can't make.

"I am a Mets fan" - heh. I grew up out on "The Island" as a Red Sox fan. So go ahead, try and abuse me. Ain't nothing people can dish out that I can't take. :)

With regard to Al Lieter, to me, he didn't come off as the stereotypical, bomb-throwing, closed-minded, right-wing nut job, but rather as someone who could have a reasonable conversation.

During the Dreyfuss segment, Lieter came out the gate with the right-wing talking points, and the stupid ass excuses (they buried the WMD; they hauled them away in a truck; they hate us for our freedoms).

He lost me right then and there.

Obviously some of the audience, too, because they laughed at him.

Sorry to have given you an anti-Jerry Maguire moment. :)

During the first segment, before the Dreyfuss segment, Lieter came out covered with Bush stickers, which to me was supposed to be intentionally funny considering Mr. McEnroe's political leanings. Lieter then discussed how he didn't feel strongly one way or the other but more of a mix with a slant toward conservative. He then recalled a talk with someone that came off as reasonable people having a reasonable discussion. Just my interpretation.

During the Dreyfuss segment, Lieter "came out of the gate" only after Mr. Dreyfuss expressed his opinion of the war. Lieter then did what I think would have been natural in his position; he tried to defend himself. If you were on national television (yeah, I know "McEnroe" barely qualifies as national television) and express your opinion that was followed by an opposing opinion, wouldn't you want to back up your opinion? However, Lieter was unarmed, just the right-wing talking points, as you stated.

"He lost me right then and there." - He also lost Mr. Dreyfuss, which I think was unfortunate.

"Obviously some of the audience, too, because they laughed at him." - Actually, I recall some applause. Just a smattering, but applause nonetheless. Anyone recall differently?

over the years and he is a nut job, believe me....he is a neocon that favors the USA bombing the hell out of everyone that disagrees with us...I have heard him speak before on the issues....he loves Bush big time.....

Obviously, I can only base my opinion on last night's show. However, since you claim to have followed Mr. Lieter's history of political statements, I would like to ask the following if you saw last night's episode of "McEnroe": How did he appear to you? Has that always been his demeanor or has he been more "hardcore" in the past?

hardcore in the past...last night he was quiet compared to his demeanor in the past....there have been many times where he has been very passionate about Buah and fighting Iraq to win the war on terror...yacccck! I think 911 made him a right wing wacko much like Dennis Miller. However, he is not your typical athlete because he knows what the issues are...problem is that he is very narrow minded about it.

n/t

She was young enough to be his daughter and she kept posing for the camera. I thought she was auditioning for a new episode of BayWatch.

of the show so I could have missed something.

that makes more sense now. LOL.

I've been working with a very prominent African American singing group since 10/01 who performed for the both the NAACP and Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition Conference this year.

The NAACP did their 29th annual Tribute to the US Military dinner the day before Ray-Gun's funeral in DC with a special tribute to the Air Force paid for by Lockheed Martin. I gave my notice to the band because of their participation (I stayed away) in glorification of illegal war.

I sent the band and NAACP juxtaposed pictures of Abu Ghraib torture victims and lynching victims in the US from a museum website of lynching postcards along with a recounting of the 1921 razing of an African American community in Tulsa, Oklahoma as a result of mindless white racist rage.
http://www.musarium.com/withoutsanctuary/main.html
http://rwor.org/a/v21/1040-049/1043/tulsa.htm


I called the US 'War on Terror' post-9/11 GLOBAL LYNCHING.

At my last show with this band Jesse Jackson brought up on stage a slew of African American generals who were applauded by the audience for having achieved such a high level of status in the US death machine. I gave Jesse and earfull after the show and he didn't appreciate it.

Just as Martin Luther King preached during Vietnam, American wars are fueled by the same racism and hatred that allows massive poverty and suffering in our own country.

Everyone needs to be told hwn they are WRONG about killing other people.

It needed to be said, but it's a hard thing to do.

To hell with whether Jesse "appreciated" it or not..... not many "appreciated" Martin's stand on Vietnam, either.

Yet, it had to be said, and he had the integrity to stick with it.

I applaud you!

:toast:

Kanary