"but I don't like Kerry either...."

I keep hearing that but never get an explanation of why people don't like him. Okay, all you Kerry not likers... what is it about Kerry that you don't like.

(and I've heard it alot myself)

I look at them like they just fell from the sky. "Really? I think he'll be a great president."

. . and it seldom wears off before death.

Sorry about that.

You don't HAVE to like him--you only have to feel that whoever you vote for5 is best qualified to run the country!

:headbang:
rocknation

Doesn't the President go to a BBQ with everyone that voted for him?

I mean, what the hell am I wasting my time voting for?


/sarcasm

This seems to really throw them for a loop. They just respond with a vague "I don't know, I just don't like him". It's pretty easy to make them look foolish when you demand actual reasons for their dislike. Seems they don't have any, really.

First he was against abortions, now he's for 'em. etc. etc.

That's what the impenetrable wingnut in the nest office says.

That flip-flop meme seems to be pretty deeply ingrained.

If that ain't a reason to dislike him, I don't know what is. :evilgrin:

He voted to renew the "Assault Weapons" Ban.

He said he used the 30-30 round to hunt with. But he Flip-Flops when he added his name to a Bill - first sponsored by Ed Kennedy - that would ban the production of the 30-30 round. And the 30-30 was first invented in the 1890's. The round is about 110 years old.

He Flip-Flopped with the War in Iraq. Back when Clinton was President, Kerry was among the many cussing out Saddam regularly.

"Christmas in Cambodia", trips him up again.

Those are the easiest for me to come up with. Give me 60 more seconds and I'll come up with another. Go Dean!

I'll be amazed if they come up with anything specific.

If they mention the tax cut, remind them about the bill for that coming due in future years as well as the $130 BILLION dollars spent in Iraq, on borrowed funds, that will also have to be paid back.

Voting is an opportunity that we have and that people have died for to have a small say in the function of our government. The system isnt designed to provide everyone with thier personal hero to vote for. Its not perfect by any means but would you rather have a king? Its not John Kerry's fault that you have a horribly flawed illusion of what the government is or can be.

He will be a servant of the people and He will have to answer to us. As Americans it is our civic duty to guide our leaders and question their judgment if it is not within the best interest of the people.

just like he answered to his constituents who told him overwhelmingly not to vote for IWR.

Yeah, I'll vote for him, not because I think very well of him, but because I want to see Bush repudiated in at least one particular. I want to see a landslide.

I asked him if he'd watched the DNC. He said no. So I talked a little about how impressive Kerry's speech was, and suggested he watch it if he got a chance. Talked about seeing a couple of Kerry's interviews and he came across as thoughtful and intelligent.

I also told him I had not been impressed by Kerry initially, but now was very supportive. I think I opened his mind a little.

BTW, he voted Bush 2000 and can't stand him now. He thinks the War in Iraq was a big mistake and Bush totally blew it by not staying in Afghanistan. He's voting Kerry this time around.

They don't like Bush. They've seen what he can (or can't) do in 4 years. There's only one other choice. What are they saying? That they won't vote? That they'll end up voting for Bush again despite despising him? Why won't they give Kerry a chance, when they already know Bush isn't going to make things better for America?

I would be voting for ralph nadar if this election wasn't so important.

because i think he is straying too far from his base, to please the swing voters. I could give a crap about the swing voters. If they can't make up their mind it aint my problem.

Just the other day on tv i heard that kerry just said despite knowing what he knows now he still would have voted for the IRaqi war resolution. "but I would have used that authority effectively." what the hell does that mean?

I read somewhere that 90% of the delegates thought that this war was a mistake and are against it. Why is he so afriad to echo this claim?

I like teresa H kerry cause she says what she says. Kerry just, sorry to use this phrase, seems wishy washy. Like i think i know deep down what he stands for, but somewhere along the line he takes the more moderate approach, like he is afraid of the conservatives or something. He just makes me wonder, when are we going to stand up? HE WON'T EVEN ADMIT HE IS A LIBERAL. Thats what gets me. Im liberal, and proud of it.

It means we weren't supposed to go to war except as a last resort. Bush LIED ("only as a last resort") to Congress, and they assumed he was telling the truth. The idea was to present a united front so Hussein would let the weapons inspectors do whatever they needed to do -- and it worked. Then Bush kicked the weapons inspectors out and started a war. The ability to "look tough" is an important negotiation tool in a President's arsenal; NO ONE expected Bush to be insane because EVERYONE knew what would happen if we invaded Iraq. (See "Civil War for Dummies.)

"Are you asking me if I would have voted for you to rush to war without a plan to win the peace, Mr. President?" or something to that effect and left it at that. No flip-flop. No nuance. Just throwing the ball back in Bush's court.

All of this defense of 'that's not what he said/meant/voted for' etc. only serves to show that he goofed that up big time and gave Rove a nice gift.

You are correct. I sometimes think its harder for "smart" people to come up with one line answers for difficult questions. Yours is a good one. You should go to the www.johnkerry.com website and post it on their campaign advice board. :) Best, Ida

:P just kidding! I agree with you that we often have a tendency to be overly indulgent with our linguistic applications.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion. :)

During the build up to the Iraq war, i had a gut feeling that the bush administration was full of B.S. It seems highly unlikely that bush would have used it as a 'last resort.' It was pretty clear to me that they wanted this war no matter what.

So either kerry trusted bush, or he made his vote based on the assumption that voting no could be a bad move politically.

Either option I'm not too fond of. But your talking to a kucinich fan here, now THEREs someone whos not afraid to stand up.

To me, Kerry just seems to do whatever is politically convient for him. I hope this doesn't backfire for him, cause I'd hate to see another 4 years of bush.

I agree with you One Hundred Percent cushla! As you so eloquently point out though, the stakes are too high this election for any of us Progressives to indulge ourselves in the luxury of a Nader vote. All an act like that would accomplish is the reelection of the babbling, bumbling buffoon currently occupying the Presidency and that would be a disaster indeed. This is politics...ultimately one's conscience has very little to do with the reality of things.

I'm hoping people like Dean, kucinich, sharpton..reminded the democrats where many of us lie.

I can't take much more though...and it hurts that i feel too scared to vote with my conscience. How am i really free when i just get scared into voting for whatever cookie cutter democrat comes out?

I want a real democrat. Or maybe i'm the one who has changed. I don't know, I'm confused.

older than me and a better athlete. That ain't right.

It costs way to much for what it will deliver and it doesn't eliminate the administrative costs that are one of the big reasons our health plan costs are so high.

Why don't I like him?

1. His cowardly vote for the invasion of Iraq.
2. His continued support for the occupation of Iraq.
3. His support for the Apartheid Wall in Israel/Palestine.
4. His recent statement saying that he would STILL vote for the invasion, even knowing what he knows now.
5. His support for NAFTA and globalism.

Why will I vote for him anyway?

Because, even if he is a tepid moderate under a liberal mask with little stomach for a fight, he's light-years better than incoherent, dimwitted, wannabee fascist, now infesting the White House.

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she could have been mine had she not met him. just kidding. i'm happy with my current wife.

1. His vote in favor of the IWR. Put aside the fact that any damn fool in the world could plainly see that Bush would take this resolution and go to war with it, Kerry's yes vote, in the face of overwhelming opposition from both his constituents and the rest of the American people, is quite troubling. He failed in the most basic of job duties of a Senator, and that is to represent the will of his constituents, instead he made a vote based on a cold blooded calculus designed to enhance his chances at a presidential run. This doesn't bode well for how he will listen to the people of the US once he is president.

2. His ongoing support for the war in Iraq. He originally stated that he would have all of our combat troops home before the end of his first term, now he has modified that position significantly, stating that he will withdraw a "significant number" of combat troops by the end of his first term. So already he has gone from all to some, and this doesn't bode well. I'm sure that political calculations will play a major role in his troop withdrawl decisions once he takes office, and a wish to look tough on the "war on terra" will cause him to rethink any decision regarding withdrawl. I'm afraid that he is going to be another LBJ, promising peace in our time while ratcheting up the level of bloodshed.

3. He is a pro corporate, pro big business candidate, much in the mold of Clinton. He favors NAFTA, WTO, and the notion of "free trade" in general. Not only does this promote outsourcing, it degredates the enviroment worldwide, and gives up part of US sovereignty(see chapter 11 of NAFTA for more info). In addition, like any candidate running from one of the two major parties, Kerry has to sell his soul to the corporate power structure in order to get campaign financing. Thus he is beholden to big business, and like Clinto did, will put the interests of corporations ahead of flesh and blood citizens. This is wrong on many levels, and needs to cease. It further promotes the two party/same corporate master system of government, and hastens the erosion of citizens into becoming corporate serfs.

4. He has refused to repudiate his affirmative vote for the Patriot Act, and will do nothing to lessen the draconian measures it contains. He might allow certain provisions to sunset, but none of those so scheduled to sunset are of any real importance. Police will still be able to do sneak and peeks, etc. There are only sixteen provisions set to sunset, but even so that leaves the vast bulk of this obscene piece of legislation still viable and in force. This monstosity needs to be scrapped in total, yet Kerry will do nothing of the sort.

In all, I am quite disappointed with Kerry, and quite frankly the only reason I'm still voting for him is because he will probably have somewhat better nominations for the Supreme Court than Bush. And if the man keeps making stupid statements like he did earlier this week on his Iraq war vote, I may very well go Green. He is, quite frankly, another corporate whore, willing to sell out the common man in order to enrich his corporate masters. Once again, as under Clinton, the rich will continue to get richer at record setting levels. Meanwhile, the social safetly net will continue to be unraveled and ordinary folks will continue to suffer. The war on terror will continue to gobble up men and money at astounding amounts, and the Dems will continue to make excuses for him, because he is their boy, and is just a little bit better than Bush:eyes: Kerry will not change the direction we're going, not one whit. He will merely slow down the speed with which we are approaching the cliff edge. Unless we make real substansive changes shortly, we'll still be going over. And nothing that Kerry proposes will prevent that.

Kerry is just the opposite side of the same Establishment coin.

I don't like the fact that Kerry and Bush and Bush and Bush are Skull and Bones members, but can't talk about it.

I don't like the fact that Kerry's wife was married to a Republican Bonesman Senator, then when he was killed, married a Democratic Bonesman Senator.

I don't like or understand the fact that as a freshman Senator in 1988, Kerry was given the chair of the Committee investigating BCCI and managed to stick NOTHING on a Bush.

I don't like the fact that Kerry is even DISTANTLY related to Bush.




I realize that these things might seem "unimportant". But to think they are is naive.

I freely admit to not paying enough attention on Clinton's watch, and I do not intend to make that mistake with Kerry. I'll work to get him elected, and more importantly, to get more people with my views elected.

We aren't ever going to get a non-corporado candidate at higher levels unless and until we change structures from below.

yesterday that even though she dislikes what bush has done, she's STILL voting for him. The reason: no difference between the two and bush is a good man in his heart. Kerry apparently is not a good man in his heart, according to her. But she said this on the heels of saying all the bad things about bush. I thought for a quick second, she had had a change of heart. But then she went for her punchline. She's STILL voting for bush.....again! Sheeessshhhh. What does it take?

he's going to lead the coutry.

people either "hate" or "like", what's up with that?

or are you just making a point?

During the primaries, I discussed, quite openly, clearly, and freely, my concerns with Kerry. They haven't gone away. His policies, when it comes to my profession, are not offering me any hope that "help is on the way." And there are other issues that I am uncomfortable or unhappy with, as well.

Also during the primaries, I wrote several letters to him, and to his campaign, asking them to clarify some points and address my concerns. They were positive, supportive letters. The concerns were not only never addressed; the letters were never acknowledged at all.

Throughout the primaries, I said over and over that I would support the nominee after the convention. And I have. I've donated to Kerry, I will be voting for Kerry, and I will be encouraging anyone who is wavering to do the same. What else is it that you want? I don't have to like him. To be more clear, I don't dislike Kerry himself; I do like him. I don't like many of his policies. At this point, the choices are pretty narrow; Kerry, Bush, a 3rd party who won't win, write in someone who won't even know that I he/she ever got a vote, or don't vote. Out of those choices, I've chosen Kerry, because evicting Bush is important enough to me to set aside my differences, at least until November 3rd.

I've also chosen not to discuss my differences with Kerry here at DU; it serves no purpose. There are other groups organizing and advocating for the issues I think are critical, and I can take my discussions there. Telling DU what's "wrong" with Kerry doesn't change anyone's mind, but can give campaign fodder for lurking Bush supporters.

Is this not good enough for you, or must we all worship Kerry as the incoming Savior to bring an end to people in our own party wanting to fight their own instead of fighting the Bush campaign?

Smart campaigners, imo, would pour their time and energy into opposing the enemy rather than towards feeding internal dissent.

(work = the army). The reason most often cited by these soldiers? His voting record in the Senate. Some of them have whipped out emails they've been sent. Emails showing Kerry's voting record against defense spending and such. Unfortunately, most of them don't know much about Kerry. They were all in Iraq when the primaries were going on and came back to the US after it was obvious Kerry was the nominee and the Bush attack on Kerry started.

Too bad, they were so anti-Bush when they first came home. They liked that Kerry was a vet but then they started hearing nothing but negative.

Supported other candidates in the primaries. I for one was a Howard Dean supporter so Kerry is not everyone's first choice. Many of us find legitimate room for disagreement with Kerry on some issues such as the war in Iraq and his support for it as one example. In actuality Kerry is sort of a middle of the road career politician generally focused on serving the same corporate interests and masters that almost all successful politicians in our country are beholden to. He does not very often take the sort of progressive stance that I, for one would very much like to see. That said, John Kerry is light years ahead of the brain dead, misguided moronic and bumbling stooge currently occupying the White House so it is crucially important that while we are honest enough to acknowledge our differences with Kerry (after all nobody is perfect...especially politicians) we never lose sight of the ultimate goal which is to win back the White House. Consequently our support for the Kerry campaign has to be passionate, vigorous and enthused even if in reality we are a bit lukewarm in our opinion of many of his positions.

Well said ProfLefty!


:toast:

And frankly, I'm getting tired of the 210% Kerry supporters trying to "convince" those already voting for him. He's got my vote; so enough already. Let's work on those who are voting for or thinking about voting for someone other than Kerry.

but I like him, first off I disagree with him on trade, me, Gephardt, and Kucinich are soulmates on this issue but thats ok, he's not a total free trader, the patriot act but I'll let it slide because he's willing to let it die, the war, now I wasnt in his circumance but I trust that he wouldnt make the same decision as Bush. Those 3 are what I disagree with him most on, now why I like him, he is a student of history, so he's not an ignorant fool like Bush is, he has a voting record near simliar to Kennedy, dont believe me, go to project vote smart, he can surprise you, when you think hes done, he comes back, he's terrific on the environment, his education plan will help me get in to a good college, and he has a great committment to civil rights. So in conclusion I like Kerry but disagree with him on some, nothin new, I like him better than I did Clinton or Gore though.

but I'm aware of where I am and what the result would be. And before the groupthink begins and the DU wolfpack ensues, yes, I'm voting for him. Then I'm going out and getting VERY drunk.

-He voted for the war in Iraq
-He says he would have voted to authorize war in Iraq had he known what we know now
-He voted for the war in Afghanistan
-He still tries to play himself off as anti-war
-He voted for NAFTA
-and various other harmful trade agreements
-He is opposed to gay mairrage
-He is opposed to abortion
-He won't say that he won't appoint judges who are opposed to abortion
-He supports the WTO
-He won't criticize Bush on the hard issues
-He voted for the Patriot Act
-He voted for No Child Left Behind
-He supports the War on Drugs
-He opposes the legalization of pot
-but admits he's smoked it
-He didn't take a hard line against the DNCs anti-free-speech policies
-He's uninteresting
-Another rich white man
-Member of Skull & Bones
-Supports Israel's occupation of Palestine
-He's taken back statements he made after the Vietnam War
-Not definitive enough on the environment
-Wants a bigger millitary
-He described George Bush as "a guy who takes more vacations than people on welfare"
-He "has raised more money from paid lobbyists than any other senator over the past 15 years", mostly from "telecommunications and financial companies with business before his committee" (Washington Post)
-He recently added Chrysler CEO Lee Lacocca to his team
-Accepts, and embraces support from George Soros, who made a fortune by fucking countless countries' economies
-There are many more instances of dirty money in his campaign

-----

I'm not making any comparisons between Kerry and Bush, or stating my intentions in November, but that is why I don't like Kerry. I can't get at all excited over him, and I think it was a huge mistake to nominate him. On many of these issues, Bush is worse, but I can still say that Kerry is bad.

He also doesn't seem to indicate in any way that he will pursue any course of action to put in place a fair electoral system more favorable to third party candidates and democracy in general. Nobody should have to feel guilty voting for the only candidate they agree with.