Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Ned more proof that the US used uraniam-laced bombs in Afghanistan

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 03:45 PM
Original message
Ned more proof that the US used uraniam-laced bombs in Afghanistan
http://citypages.com/databank/24/1182/article11417.asp

32) Careful science demonstrates that depleted uranium is no big risk to the population.

Pure nonsense. While the government has trotted out expert after expert to debunk the dangers of depleted uranium, DU has been implicated in health troubles experienced both by Iraqis and by U.S. and allied soldiers in the first Gulf War. Unexploded DU shells are not a grave danger, but detonated ones release particles that eventually find their way into air, soil, water, and food.

While we're on the subject, the BBC reported a couple of months ago that recent tests of Afghani civilians have turned up with unusually high concentrations of non-depleted uranium isotopes in their urine. International monitors have called it almost conclusive evidence that the U.S. used a new kind of uranium-laced bomb in the Afghan war.


Reading this revelation makes my blood boil. But having more to read on this would make my anger rational though.

And to think, Bush will go to Heaven despite all the fear, anger, terror, and destruction HE HAS ALLOWED AND CAUSED just because he claims to believe in Jesus Christ as his* savior. That alone is proof that organized religion is a crime of its own grand scale. :grr: :mad: Where IS Jesus to save Bush* (and the rest of us who deserve salvation FROM HIM*) anyway?!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
greenwow Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sigh
<i>HE HAS ALLOWED AND CAUSED just because he claims to believe in Jesus Christ as his* savior.</i>

Yes, but Christians can kill and hurt as many people as they want as long as they ask for forgiveness. Their strange version of heaven is for anyone, no matter what horrible things they've done in life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Check out the UMRC web site
Edited on Sat Aug-23-03 04:06 PM by JohnyCanuck
Check out the web site of the Uranium Medical Research Centre www.umrc.net . Within the last year or so they sent a team to Afghanistan to test the civilian population for Uranium contamination. They found high levels of uranium in biological samples and also in the soil etc., and the contamination appeared to show up mostly around sites that saw military action during the US led Operation Enduring Freedom against the Taliban and Al Quaida.

Most of the research and papers published by the UMRC appear to be the work of a Dr. Durakovic, a former head of nuclear medicine at a VA hospital and US Army Colonel. He apparently lost his job at the VA a few months after writing a letter to Bill Clinton (President at the time) asking for a fuller investigation into possible links between Du and Gulf War Syndrome.


Here's a summary of some of their findings re. Uranium contamination in Afghanistan as published on their main page:

UMRC’s recent findings, May 2003, reveal a wider scope of human and environmental contamination in Afghan civilians, corroborating the November 2002 Jalalabad findings.


Jalalabad area: New reference levels based on recent collections of samples and controls have revised the Jalalabad results upward to uranium values 45 X’s normal.

New bioassay studies identify uranium internal contamination in Spin Gar (Tora Bora) area and the City of Kabul are up to 200 X’s the Reference Level of the unexposed population.


Surface water, rice fields and catch-basins adjacent to and surrounding the bombsites have high values of uranium, up to 27 X’s normal.


Low but as yet inconclusive readings of U236 have been identified by the laboratory in some urine samples; further analysis is underway to determine the metallurgical origins of the uranium with a consideration of “commercial natural uranium” containing recycled reactor spent fuel products.

Analyses of soils and debris collected inside OEF bomb craters and target sites have uranium values 3 X’s to 6 X’s normal.


Surface soils surrounding the bombsites and downwind from ground-zero are elevated close to 3 X’s reference levels.


Field and laboratory data show that samples with elevated uranium levels, civilian health problems, and weapons exposure histories correspond spatially and chronologically to ordnance deployed by Operation Enduring Freedom.



For more details see the web site www.umrc.net

Edited to add the link to their preliminary report on Uranium contamination in Afghanistan. http://www.umrc.net/AfghanistanOEF.asp
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. We didn't use Uranium "laced" bombs.
We did use depleted uranium rounds which are a completely different thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That may not be the case now
The UMRC people are saying the widespread appearance of non-depleted uranium contamination in Afghanistan leads them to believe that the US might be experimenting with non-depleted uranium in their weapons.

They have so far been unable to come up with any other resonable viable explanations for the widespread appearance of uranium in the Afghanistan enviroment which is also closely associated with the areas that came under bombardment etc. from US weapons.

See Point #6 and Point #10 in their prelimnary report of their Afghanistan findings at http://www.umrc.net/AfghanistanOEF.asp

From #6

Independent research and publicly available documentation of NATO and US weapons’ development programs hinted at or noted directly that non-fissionable (non-thermal nuclear) uranium weapons (including DU) development programs are still underway. Sources include: military research laboratories and sub-contract research & development programs; the US Science Based Stockpile Stewardship Program; the Federation of American Scientists; veterans’ reports; and, the annual reports and advertising of independent weapons contractors. US military health warnings to OEF personnel indicate the presence of radiological contaminants; recommending troops take protection measures. OEF’s forward targeting personnel, Special Forces and post-bombing, site inspection teams have been given radiation protection instructions, radiation detectors and protective equipment prior to and since entering Afghanistan

From #10

UMRC’s follow-up and on-going research results will be reported in future, peer reviewed studies. A discussion of the possible origins or this contamination can be found in the Field Trip #2 Report: “Precise Destruction – Indiscriminate Effects”. To date, there is no evidence of geological or other conditions that might explain the contamination. Significantly, the on-set of acute, uranium internal contamination symptoms coincide with the dates of Operations Enduring Freedom’s bombing campaign and match bomb-crater and target site samples.

<snip>

The possibility of Natural Uranium remains under investigation. Local geological samples and controls do not substantiate a source other than the OEF bombing. There are no geological, commercial and agricultural phenomena or activities and uses in the environs of the contaminated populations that might explain the contamination. UMRC invites reasonable explanations and continues to investigate alternatives or evidence that might explain origins other than uranium-alloyed and composite uranium-high-explosive ordnance deployed by Operation Enduring Freedom.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The US would be foolish to waste non-depleted uranium
in tank rounds, as fissionable uranium is many times more expensive and valuable for reactors.

However, no tank round is completely 'depleted' either and all DU is mildly radioactive.

IMO DU is a negative environmental aspect of these wars we have an ugly propensity to start, but less important than the tons of other carcinogens which are released into the air and spilled into the water table from massive bombing campaigns and related activities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. UMRC is talking about more than tank rounds.

They are talking about publicly acknowledged and ongoing at the time of OEF US and Nato research into a new generation of bunker busters bombs and artillery shells etc. able to penetrate many feet of reinforced concrete before exploding. The point remains, as I see it, that as of yet no one has invalidated or discredited the testing techniques used by UMRC to test for uranium pollution in Afghanistan, nor has anyone, so far, offered up a reasonable explanation as to why so much non-depleted uranium appears to have shown up in Afghanistan locations associated with the areas that saw military action in OEF.

Quote from UMRC Project Afghanistan Report:

These new generations of weapons and the targets for which they are designed dictate specific features and functions: They are designed as “self-forging” and capable of punching through multi-layered, extra-reinforced, hardened-targets. They must be able to defeat 14 to 20 feet of heavily reinforced concrete. Unlike the Gulf War DU armour defeat penetrators, these new warheads would be used in conjunction with high explosive charges and or high-pressure, shaped charges and delayed-action detonators (set to predetermined stand-off distances in some cases and to penetration depths controlled by altitude and void sensitivity sensors in others – depending on the ordnance and target).

By the DOD’s own admission, the best performing metal that consistently fits these functional military profiles is uranium and alloys of uranium. Titanium and tungsten are not suitable as the prime alloy base for these purposes. Uranium (whether NDU or DU) offers unique structural features and the chemistry best suited for the defeat of deep, bunkerized targets, multiple types of targets in area denial munitions, and penetrating composite ceramic and metal armoured targets.

Uranium can be engineered to be “self-sharpening” so that when it hits a target, it retains its punching point as material erodes off the warhead (titanium and tungsten will not do this). Uranium’s molecular structure can re-formed, using metallurgical and “nano-technologies” to deliver a selected range of ballistic features, including kinetic, thermal, pyrophoric, liquid metal and high-pressure/high-heat, plasma effects. Uranium is a readily available metal, cheap to produce and is in abundance in DOE’s, DOD’s and their weapon’s contractors’ stockpiles. Uranium has been designated a high priority material for scientific research on new weapons and “stockpile re-cycling” as a strategic and capital asset into multiple military applications.


I am not saying that the UMRC people have conclusively proven beyond doubt that the US has used non-depleted uranium in the weapons deployed in Afghanistan, but the evidence at this point in time certainly seems (to me and to some others) to be pointing that way. Interestingly enough the UMRC researchers claimed to be surprised that they did NOT find evidence of depleted uranium in Afghanistan which is what they had orginally been looking for. It was while testing for DU that they found their tests were coming back positive for the non-depleted uranium.

UMRC’s Afghan civilian findings have been criticised by a leading anti-DU activist. Responding to this criticism may shed light on questions of those who are understandably confused by the discovery of Non-depleted Uranium and its possible use by Operation Enduring Freedom. Below is the reply (objections are indented and in quote marks):{I put the objections in blue /jc}

“UMRC’s findings of Non-depleted Uranium (as opposed to Depleted Uranium) confuses the public’s understanding of the issues”:

Depleted Uranium and Non-depleted Uranium are both species of uranium. UMRC is reporting the isotopic signatures of the uranium found in the Afghan civilians’ urine. Since Depleted Uranium was not found, it was not reported. This does not rule out the possibility that future studies may identify DU in Afghanistan. For a discussion of the possible origins of this contamination, see below: “Origin of the Afghan civilians’ uranium, internal contamination”.

“UMRC’s field research investigations concluding that the US and NATO have deployed a new generation of weapons incorporating Non-depleted Uranium is not substantiated by public domain information about the ordnance deployed by Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan”:

UMRC’s Field Trip Report’s conclusions as to the origin of the Afghan civilians’ uranium internal contamination is preliminary, based on (1) a follow-up field investigation to identify the origins and (2) radiological analysis of bomb-crater debris taken from the sites adjacent to the contaminated population and survivors from the blasts. The reader is invited to review UMRC’s Afghan Field Report excerpts: “Precise Destruction-Indiscriminate Effects” found on this web-site


Above quotes from: http://www.umrc.net/AfghanistanOEF.asp

The report refered to "Precise Destruction-Indiscriminate Effects" can be found here: www.umrc.net/downloads/destruction_effects.pdf

Note that it's a pdf file so anyone wanting to read it will need the Adobe Acrobat Reader.











Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. The bunker-buster bombs are nukes
Natural or "non-depleted" uranium is made up of two isotopes, U-238 (99.7%) and U-235 (.7%). DU is mostly U-238; fissile uranium is highly concentrated U-235. Though natural uranium is a readily available material fissile uranium is not. Uranium oxide as mined from the ground must go through complex, expensive processing to refine it to the point where it can react spontaneously.

The main reason DU is used in shells is because of its mass (it is the naturally-occuring element with the heaviest atomic weight) and so for a given size it carries the most inertia.

The new generation of bunker-buster bombs (at least the ones that I know about) are actually mini-nukes that get their punch from a nuclear explosion, not from the mass of their warheads.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Interesting
Edited on Sat Aug-23-03 11:31 PM by JohnyCanuck

It appears from what UMRC is saying on the article I linked to above that the US might be researching and using non-fission type bunker buster type weapons as well and finding creative ways to use uranium in these weapons. They are not claiming they have evidence that the US let off any type of nuclear bomb or were using mini-nukes in Afghanistan.

Independent research and publicly available documentation of NATO and US weapons’ development programs hinted at or noted directly that non-fissionable (non-thermal nuclear) uranium weapons (including DU) development programs are still underway. Sources include: military research laboratories and sub-contract research & development programs; the US Science Based Stockpile Stewardship Program; the Federation of American Scientists; veterans’ reports; and, the annual reports and advertising of independent weapons contractors. US military health warnings to OEF personnel indicate the presence of radiological contaminants; recommending troops take protection measures. OEF’s forward targeting personnel, Special Forces and post-bombing, site inspection teams have been given radiation protection instructions, radiation detectors and protective equipment prior to and since entering Afghanistan.

Of course I have no connections to the military or to defense contractors so, I am only going on what's posted at UMRC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shockandawed Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. True and not true
we used depleted uranium shells for tank rounds. They are the best for armor piercing of other heavy armor vehicles.

They are harmful, and the link to info posted above my contribution here is great information.

Of course blowing up depleted uranium is bad. Who the fuck are you having a hard time convincing that shooting at people with 20 lb chunks of uranium is bad? Lost cause. Work on your dog.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. rounds hitting a tank are the problem
When a DU round hits a hard target, like a tank, DU dust is sheared off. This dust is extremely dangerous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ask and Ye Shall Recieve!
Post Desert Storm Info:

snip

In an act of stark cruelty, the US dominated Sanctions Committee refuses to permit Iraq to import the clean-up equipment that they desperately need to decontaminate their country of the Depleted Uranium ammunition that the US fired at them. Approximately 315 tons of DU dust was left by the use of this ammunition.The Sanctions Committee also refuses to allow the mass importation of anti-cancer treatments, which contain trace amounts of radio-isotopes, on the grounds that these constitute '...nuclear materials..'

Much More..........................................


http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kbowe Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thre REAL CRIME is the media giving Bush a pass on this and
many other atorcities committed by this administration including lying about air safety at ground zero!

We should organize a world protest march agisnt the Bush administration AND the US media.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes we should protest now more than before this Faux war!
This ammo has been used in a half dozen countries and KIDS are paying the price! Right to life my ass!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC