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What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?

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Mr_Lefty Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:09 PM
Original message
What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?
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smada Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. This author won't win the debate the way he started out
Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.


Whatever objections you have against conservatism, I don't think you'll find many people who would agree with that definition.

To me, conservatism is the embracing of the status quo, and the fear of change, even to the point of detriment to a majority of a nation's citizens.

Anyone can postulate a theory, like this author has, but that in itself doesn't lend any credibility to the explanation. In the end, it's just an opinion.
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Mr_Lefty Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. it's very long too
Edited on Mon Aug-16-04 06:21 PM by Mr_Lefty
I just thought I'd throw it out there for anyone who wants to read it.

edit: brainfart
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. It is the author's definition, and he presents a well thought out argument
that supports his definition.

It seems to me that your definition of conservative is actually somewhat similar to the author's definition.

The "status quo" of political states has historically, in most "western" and many other cultures and societies, had the characteristic of being ruled by a "nobility" or a privileged upper class, which essentially defines an aristocracy. These aristocracies are generally self serving and are reluctant to allow, and often actively discourage, social changes that would benefit a majority of the subject population but might weaken the power of the ruling aristocracy.

This definition, IMO, when considering the collective and individual wealth of almost every member of the Bu$h administration, accurately describes our current situation in the US.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow. Thanks for the info. Here's a link to a study on conservatives:
Researchers help define what makes a political conservative

By Kathleen Maclay, Media Relations | 22 July 2003 (revised 7/25/03)

BERKELEY – Politically conservative agendas may range from supporting the Vietnam War to upholding traditional moral and religious values to opposing welfare. But are there consistent underlying motivations?

Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality, and that some of the common psychological factors linked to political conservatism include:

Fear and aggression
Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
Uncertainty avoidance
Need for cognitive closure
Terror management
snip------
He pointed as an example to a 2001 trip to Italy, where President George W. Bush was asked to explain himself. The Republican president told assembled world leaders, "I know what I believe and I believe what I believe is right." And in 2002, Bush told a British reporter, "Look, my job isn't to nuance."

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml
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NoBorders Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. thanks for posting that...
I remember hearing about it, but couldn't remember the source!
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Definition of conservatism
from the UC Berkely paper.

That got a chuiuckle.

And next we'll go clear across the country to Jerry Falwell's Liberty University where we'll learn what's wrong with liberals.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I disagree.
This was a press release concerning a University study done by legitimate scholars. This study was considered credible enough to be published in the Psychological Bulletin, the journal of the American Psychological Association:

Psychological
Bulletin
Table of Contents
May 2003, Volume 129, Number 3
Target Article
Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition by John T. Jost, Jack Glaser, Arie W. Kruglanski, and Frank J. Sulloway

http://www.apa.org/journals/bul/503tc.html

I doubt that Jerry Falwell's Liberty University has any academicians of the same caliber as the researchers that published these findings:

Assistant Professor Jack Glaser of the University of California, Berkeley's Goldman School of Public Policy and Visiting Professor Frank Sulloway of UC Berkeley joined lead author, Associate Professor John Jost of Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, and Professor Arie Kruglanski of the University of Maryland at College Park, to analyze the literature on conservatism.

The psychologists sought patterns among 88 samples, involving 22,818 participants, taken from journal articles, books and conference papers. The material originating from 12 countries included speeches and interviews given by politicians, opinions and verdicts rendered by judges, as well as experimental, field and survey studies.

Ten meta-analytic calculations performed on the material - which included various types of literature and approaches from different countries and groups - yielded consistent, common threads, Glaser said.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. To me conservatism is a belief system with dogma
Conservatives have a mantra, less tax, less government, la, la, la.

To me it is not based in reality but is more like a religion with a creed you have to believe in. Just apply a little conservatism to every problem and they will all go away. It never works. It is a "me" religion.
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. How has mankind ever benefited from ...
conservatism?
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I can't think of anything conservative that helps mankind
The idea that if all of us takes care of ourselves we will all be OK. But that is too simplistic. We are not all dealt a good hand in life.
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Winston Churchill was a Conservative.
n/t
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. It serves no purpose to demonize conservatives & conservatism.
The basic idea of conservatism is: leave me alone.

Practically, that means:
A) Gov't shouldn't be any bigger than it has to (smaller being better).

B) A person is responsible for his own success or failure. He won't ask anyone for help, but if he will pitch in to help if asked.

C) He is scrupulously fair and almost painfully honest. True conservatives don't suffer fools gladly - or accept bullshit from anybody.

Our problem is that the GOP, along with BushCo ARE NOT CONSERVATIVES! Spending money you don't have, favoring the parasite classes, lying, cheating, stealing - and general criminal behavior - are NOT conservative values.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I would not demonize conservatives, I just think their world view doesn't
work.

I feel the same about Libertarianism. It all looks good on paper but in reality the world doesn't work that way.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. not really.
The basic idea of conservatism is: leave me alone.

That's more libertarian than conservative.
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istruthfull Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Todays conservatives
Todays conservatives = tomorrows communist.
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