DU'ers, help me out with this wingnut

here is her post (To my company BB) help me to respond to this twit:) Please...note the "snips" at beginning and end.....I didn't say this stuff!!!:puke:

"No, Dr.****, when Kerry signed on, the swifties were not a dangerous
assignment. Their use was changed after Kerry signed on. Name me one other
serviceman who came to Vietnam with their own photographer? And, *****
there are 9 vets who stand with Kerry. Three are on his payroll. There are
over 250 vets who served WITH him (not on his boat, because these boats are
like tanks - they travel with each other in units - who have come out
against him, including almost every officer he served under. This is unheard
of in the military. Read the new book out and make up your own mind.

And, Dr. ***, would you sign up your son to fly a plane that was so hard
to fly that it had it's own kill record? And name me one statement that Bush
made that maligned anyone's patriotism? A direct quote that can be verified.
Or is this another Mooreism? Tell a lie often and loud enough and soon people
will begin to believe it. <<< snip


OK< she is prattling on because we democrats have said that Kerry's record compared to BUsh's is better, of course- She has read ther Swift BOat book and I guess it makes all these claims..Did Kerry really hire a photographer? Was SWift duty EASY and NOT dangerous? DO all of his commanders hate him??????
:mad:

Bush is a hero because he flew a 'dangerous' plane in the Texas NG but Kerry is a coward because Swift Boat duty was easy and not dangerous? How do people come to these wierd conclusions? I know I'd a lot rather be on a boat in the middle of hostile territory where people might shoot at me any minute than be in a plane flying around over Texas!

Hit 'delete'. That's all this argument is worth.

Like hundreds of other soldiers.

Lots of the guys there brought video camera equipment, and Kerry is hardly in any of his own video.

Don't think so:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Recommendations_For_Next.pdf

or this:

**** BEGIN

Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.

"I don't like what he said after the war," said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. "But he was a good naval officer.

**** END

Source Braun, Stephen. "Kerry's War Tour Serves as Theme, Target." Los Angeles Times. 29 July 2004 (p. A13).


Further military records available at:

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

More information debunking swift at:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp



Tell Ms. Freeper to read some source documents and see what was said about Kerry AT THE TIME

Don't think so:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Recommendations_For_Next.pdf

or this:

**** BEGIN

Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.

"I don't like what he said after the war," said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. "But he was a good naval officer.

**** END

Source Braun, Stephen. "Kerry's War Tour Serves as Theme, Target." Los Angeles Times. 29 July 2004 (p. A13).


Further military records available at:

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

More information debunking swift at:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp



Tell Ms. Freeper to read some source documents and see what was said about Kerry AT THE TIME

and none of the pilots ever mentioned that it was a dangerous plane to fly. The 102s have a delta wing with plenty of surface area. I think Bush is graping at anything to make himself look heroic!

Thank you all for reminding me that Ms Freeper doesn't really deserve a response...YOU are all great! :)

Just found this on the internet (http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/archives/2004_02_24.html)

"....Turns out in the 1960s, of the four fighter aircraft in major use by the US Air Force (ie, over 100,000 flying hours per year... the F-102, F-100 Super Sabre, F-105 Thunderchief and F-101 Voodoo), the F-102 was the safest overall, with fewer serious accidents than any of the other types in 7 of those 10 years. That comparison could be skewed, but probably not in the F-102's favour, as it excludes several dangerous planes that weren't in nearly as widespread use as the others, such as the F-104 Starfighter:

Category A accidents per 100,000 flying hours per year, 1961-70:

F105 --18.3
F100 --14.4
F101 --13.2
F102 --9.9 ..."

So Bush not only avoided Vietnam, he also got to fly the safest plane!

Like the F102 being "hard to fly" that was not the case, the case was that it was obsolete and could never be used for military porpoises.
And the "served with Kerry" thing is laughable because most likely most of them did not come in contact with him except perhaps in the Officers Club.
And the only way that the boats would not have been dangerous is if they stayed tied up to the dock.

Any plane has to be hard to fly when you're stoned out of your gourd. :evilgrin:

I think Boy George was afraid of flying.
People that love to fly would never put themselves in a position to be grounded.
And if he did not love to fly he had no business in that position because there would have been hundreds of men that would jump at the chance to fly, even obsolete aircraft.

The fact is that Kerry went. The military personnel do a job. In times of war, they are asked to sacrifice time, money, comfort, health, and their lives in order to fulfill their task.

We should not as a country put their service under a microscope and say "well he didn't do this right or that right" 40 years after it happened and then laud praises upon on current president who cannot even prove he completed his national gaurd service.

The dangerousness of the job isn't the issue. The popularity of the job isn't the issue. The support of comrades from 40 years ago isn't the issue (unless you want to point out that nobody can recall Bush while there are so many recalling Kerry). What is at issue is that Kerry is a decorated war vetran while Bush eased out of duty (that he didn't attend) to go to business school.

KEEP US DEBATING THIS SLAM DUNK, AND BUSH'S CRIMES GET UNMENTIONED.

DON'T PLAY THE GAME. 1000 DEAD FOR WHAT?

Where you work at KP?

Medical Legal at Oakland here :evilgrin:

Therefore I am. I work in research - downtown. :crazy:

I know who you are. Get back to work. :)

http://mediamatters.org/search.html?string=swift+boat+vets+for+truth&go=Search

But I'd email the RWW rube back saying she's the one calling the United States Military a bunch of liars and frauds, SHE should be doing the proving.

But a rightwingnut rube is a rightwingnut rube; incredibly stupid and incredibly easy to dupe by their RWW masters, so why bother?

Here I come to the rescue:

She obviously is not citing her sources regarding aeronautical knowledge.

She is thinking of the F-104 StarFighter, also dubbed as the "widow maker" for its dubious security record. Problem is that Bush never flew the 104, he did F-102 Delta Dagger... a old plane being phased out. It was designed to intercept rusky boogies and blow them out of the sky with a thermonuclear warhead mounted in a "dumb" missile named the genie. To the extent of the mission, the pilot was responsible to just fly the plane off the ground. The risks associated with the deployment of nuclear warheads in the middle of the atmosphere meant that using normal techniques the engagement would be almost suicidal, so the plane was designed with an integrated weapons system that could return the plane back to the ground safely if anything happened to the pilot. This is, this was the first plane that could land on its own (well that was the theory anyways). So not to detract anything from the pilots who manned these planes, but there were nothing more than the lifters as far as the weapons system was concerned. Yeah, super risky assignment indeed.

Still the question remains that W marked explicity in his record that he did not wish to be deployed overseas, whereas Kerry did in fact volunteer. If W is so brave, I am sure he had no problem with being sent overseas. Afterall what good does to ones country to just sit back home and fly "dangerous" planes... wouldn't have his heroism be put to a better use in Vietnam, me thinks? And what happened to a full year of his commitment, for such a brave soul he is having a mighty hard time providing any sort of proof that he indeed finished his service at all. And why was he grounded for most of his commitment?

In the end the question should be on their roof like a hot basketball from hell: If Kerry's 3 purple hearts and silver cross are not deserved? What does it say about the corruption in the US military, especially Kerry's officers which were responsible for his commendations? Does it mean that a purple heart nowadays means nothing, thus effectively they are calling the US armed forces a bunch of liars. Is a person who was grounded and who can not attest for a year of his commitment in a champagne national ward unit, and another whih asked for 5 deferrements and who got his then girlfriend pregnant in order to not go to vietnam due to other "priorities", are these folks now more patriotic and deserving of respect that another person which voluteered for war duty?

So I guess this person does not support the troops, afterall they are all cheats and liars. Anyone can get a purple heart and a silver star these days, can't they?

In case she/he has read the book, this is a good starting point to understand who is who in this affaire:

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

is the fact that when the shit is flying, these guys expect us to believe they had the time AND presence of mind to observe and note John Kerrys actions under fire!!!!!