Does anyone else sense that home-grown violence is about to break out?

I am very concerned that one of these days, a freeper is going to start blasting away into a pro-Kerry or Democratic crowd, all in the name of * and Jesus ("The Lord told me to do it").

I hate to even put this dark thought out into the ether, but I cannot shake it. There have just been too many confrontations over political ideology reported in the news and here on DU that have either stopped just short of violence, or have resulted in fisticuffs. The kicking of a prone female demonstrator at the RNC comes immediately to mind. The mouthpieces of the right wing have repeatedly linked and blended the terms "liberal" and "Democratic" with "evil," "terrorist," "traitor," and so on. Sadly, therefore, it is not difficult to envision an unbalanced right-winger taking violent action against what he has been brainwashed into thinking are his enemies.

Our recent historical past has shown that extreme right wingers have not flinched when it comes to committing public violence in the name of their ideology -- Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Paul Hill, quite probably the "Anthrax Killer," etc.

As John Kerry, Bill Clinton and other Democrats have pointed out, the GOP needs a divided country to maintain rule. A Kerry victory in November will not put an immediate end to this ideological division, as right-wing hate radio and the corporate media will continue to exploit the "Red-Blue State" split.

Are there any viable, possible solutions to help circumvent violent confrontations, or worse? Is there any way to engage in a dialogue between leaders of the left with leaders of the right?

This issue needs to be addressed sooner than later, and before it is too late.

But I cannot shake this terrible feeling that it is lurking around the corner.

I'm not saying that it is inevitable, but that the situation is more akin to smoking a cigarette near an open gasoline container -- the probability that a conflagration will occur is not that mathematically remote.

I wish we had an emoticon for praying!

John F Kennedy
Martin Luther King
Bobby Kennedy
Eldridge Cleaver

and others with a progressive/liberal message.. the "favored way" to do it these days is by "verbal assassination", but please know that there ARE wackos "out there" who will be whipped into a religious or ideological frenzy AND who are able to see violence as "necessary" to "protect" THEIR twisted views.

People who speak the truth are always dangerous to the zealot..Zealots operate on a whole other level.. They see nothing but their narrow little world..and they do not think for themselves.. They are our own little set of "sleeper cells", just waiting for "activation" by a carefully chosen set of "code words" that only their little group reacts to.. This is why the whole WAY we campaign is so dangerous to the candidates...

People should be allowed to voice their views without the fear of violence, but that's not the case ..and it hasn't been for a long time..

We have set the stage for non-support of whoever wins, by at least 50% of the populace.. This was not always the way it was.. People used to lose and election, retreat to lick their wounds, and vow to try harder the next time.. Now they retreat to the edges of society, and plot revenge. They use the term of the newly elected person who defeated them, as a time to destroy their tenure in office. Clinton should have taught us that..

When Nixon resigned in disgrace, the Dems embraced Ford, and did not continue with the watergate-ish investigation of the "ones who remained"..(history teaches us that we SHOULD HAVE).

Reagan ushered in an era of "entitlement to office", whether deserved or not, by the repubes.. Their boy, Nixon, was terrible, yet a few scant years later, they offered up St. Reagan, and really just recycled the same ideas that led to Nixon's demise, and they see only THEIR way..They have no use for Democrats or Liberals, and they do whatever it takes to destroy us for all time. They have no qualms about it. It's their primary goal..

he helped set the precedent for the GOP.

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Don't let those knuckleheads intimidate you.

Ashcroft and bu$h will not go out of their way to prevent attacks, nor will they try real hard to apprehend them if they do commit acts of violence.

but I can tell you I have received several emails today from dear, level-headed friends who echo my own same, sick feeling.

I had a dream two weeks ago I shared with no one. John Kerry was shot (but not fatally, thank God) while taking his jacket off before he began speaking at an outdoor rally.

It was devastating.

I have also begun to worry that some group of homegrown nutjobs might pull off something like the Russian school massacre here at home.

It is very, very difficult to remain upbeat. (Plus there's a lot of unrelated personal &^%* going on right now that makes it harder to keep a stiff upper lip.)

Hope we are both wrong, rez.

but it's been shaken to the core by recent events.

Thanks for your input, and welcome to DU, Lancer. May our times be interesting, but not over-the-top.

:toast:

The McVeigh's and Rudolph's are already over the top. If we had an attorney general that was worth his weight in horseshit, he would be going after these people aggressively....the right wing is no less dangerous than the madrassas they like to scar us with abroad...heck...how many stories have there been just this year about chemicals and gunpowders stockpiled by RW individuals in Texas that they stumbled upon accidentally? There have been at least three that I recall.

And Google fills in the holes. Yikes.

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0108-Texas.html

January 8, 2004
The Guardian (UK)
US Extremists To Be Sentenced Over Bomb Plot
Texas couple had arsenal capable of killing thousands
by Julian Borger
Three Americans are due to be sentenced next month for their involvement in a plot to explode a cyanide bomb capable of killing thousands of people, . . .

The conspirators - rightwing extremists who were caught with forged identity passes to the United Nations and the Pentagon, and a variety of racist and anti-government pamphlets . . .

<snip>

A couple years ago I was getting estimates for a new roof. One fellow drove into my driveway, got out of his truck and said "All Democrats are liars!" He was no doubt listening to RW radio.
A few days later he was arrested for pulling a rifle on a deputy who was investigating him for illegal burning.

Another time I had just gotten into my car at the grocery store when a man driving a truck with RW bumper stickers all over it rammed his truck into a shopping cart so it would smash into my car (he may have thought I had left it there, but I didn't). Thankfully the cart had a goofy wheel and it wouldn't go straight.

RW media is constantly inciting these people. They have a screw loose to begin with, then they hear all the hate - all day and all night. Yes, something is going to happen.

I think we need to have an open discussion of what effect this media is having on people. Brian Lamb tried to say that Air America is just as bad as all the RW media - but he is wrong. RW media is built on stoking anger and resentment.

It is this sort of "us - good; them - bad" mentality that breeds de-humanization and, in the end, violence. If we cannot see that there are or could be ticking time-bombs in our midst too, we are fooling ourselves. Just an occasional read of DU forums gives an inkling; the flame wars & attacks on "low post" participants, the irrational obsession with attacking the other side and flinging infantile epithets at them & each other, etc. Pick your poison. It doesn't need much to fan into a face-off, then a shoving match, then...

Anyway, I agree that violence is rising up to the surface. Anything is possible: shootings, attacks, bombings, riots ... and it'll be small numbers from every side initiating it and the mob just going along. If we don't all stop demonizing and finger-pointing and "they did it first"-ing, we're all going to be screwed.

Have a nice day.
~Mich

the daylong drone of RW media is very much about creating enemies for the listener. They incite anger and attempt to turn people against anyone who does not believe the particular talking point.

Throw the righteousness of being the party of God into the mix too.

An important part of the RW agenda is that which is favored by the NRA - no restrictions on weapon ownership.
How many times have they made up stories out of whole cloth - Clinton killed people? he was a drug dealer? Kerrey went to Viet Nam with the intention of injuring himself so he could get a purple heart?

Sure some DU comments are pretty bad but I think there is a big difference. The RW media is a coordinated message that is being heard on radio, FOX and churches.

Democrats are not listening to daylong radio to tell them what to think. They generally have to look for the information and have never been very organized.

Broken window in the Grand Rapids Kerry headquarters, and some other place I can't remember. Also anecdotal reports of people's
yard signs getting stolen. I hope nothing worse happens.

broken windows. I know that during the RNC, a Bush headquarters full of people, watching the TV coverage, had shots fired at them. The story was posted somewhere on DU. It can start up from such small incidents. Scary.

but when I watched the RNC and they preached the "IMPORTANCE" of this election in the guise of "Good over Evil!" I could only think" Oh great here comes the "Pat Riot's":scared:

I think the RW militants might be too stupid to figure this one out. They would just feed into a setup for this type of scenario.

I wouldn't stand back and watch my country over taken by a new fascist empire!

For any more right-wing bullshit. They have (literally) gotten away with murder so far.

My wife too, has pledged to hit the bricks and get out there, should BushCo steal the election.

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that door can swing both way, somehow I get the feeling that they all think we are pacifists.

The Veterans for Kerry were marching as part of some parade, and some rw freak attacked one of them.

Think it was in Ohio, I'm not sure.

A peaceful solution is always best, but I'll say this, some bush fool get's in my face, he/she's gonna regret it.

The RWer in question was marching with a "family values" group ahead of the Vets for Kerry. He actually punched a female vet. (Guess we know what sort of family values these fucks are promoting.)

Here's a link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2325980

they want and need us to be both divided and afraid. But they are in fact cowards, and they resort to high school style high-jinks. If you stand up to these bullies they will back down.

the rest of us, secondarily-if Kerry wins.

My feeling is that there could be pockets of angry, unbalanced types going "off" but I don't think a huge "civil war" is likely to break out.

If you consider how LARGE this country is...the landmass alone is prohibitive for formulating any real "movement" to violence. Additionally, there are countless RWer's who may very well be upset if they don't win but they will go on about their business..they have to work and raise families, just like we do.

I'm already seeing evidence of burn-out, from both sides, behind all the heated politics. I talked to my sister living in another town. She said the rah rah RWer's in her little mountain town were agreeing to disagree with people like her and her group of "libruls"..just to get along and enjoy their community. The town is an eclectic and quaint old, foothill, rough and tumble, neighbor helping neighbor kind of place. The bartender in her favorite saloon just offered to help buy her recently deceased husband a headstone...the guy is a raving RWer!!

Another friend of mine still associates with life long friends who are also Rush Limbaugh worshipers *cough* (my friend is a liberal), she and they continue their friendship without politics. It works for them. Of course these people are also middle age to a little past middle age..and working class. They are not likely to be out polishing any weapons...they prefer to white water raft or fly off to Hawaii.

The real problems will stem from the neo cons in government who will be left behind. They will foment more trouble for whomever wins the White House. They will be trouble in congress, passing bills and lobbying for all sorts of crap..watch out for supreme court appointments et al. Oxyrush will continue to make trouble on the air waves and so forth. The neo cons will redouble their efforts for another run which means we will have to be on our toes no matter how this election turns out. END OF ESSAY sorry..

You can start with the force the cops- a loyal Bush constituency if ever there was one- use to coral and intimidate demonstrators while protestors attempt to exercise their first amendment rights- there were 2,000 arrests during the RNC convention, many by violent means. You can also throw in the way delegates to the RNC convention joined in with security to throw to the ground and kick a non-violent protestor, as well as the fifteen or so protestors who were physically manhandled on their way out of the Garden. And, as an observer of campaign tactics over the years, I remember a series of Reagan rallies where nutjobs would drive their vehicles through the Carter, then Mondale, crowds, ripping away signs and other property of the lawful attendees. Now, with this latest incident of fascist emnity (ie., the brownshirt who went wilding during the recent Kerry parade), their message seems to be: We're Bush's Constituency, and as such, we will act in as violent a manner as we can get away with- just like their 'fearless bleeder'.

Defenestrating these fucking brownshirts is paramount to getting the world back on track- getting Bush out of office is the first step toward their disempowerment.

First of all, freepers are the biggest cowards on the planet so there is no chance of them getting off their fat asses to actually go outside.

The rest of America is either too busy working or too lazy to care.

If there are any lunatics who cause violence, it will never escalate or affect anything in the real world.

And the rise of Pol Pot's legions of rednecks was just unlucky. Or, the ascendancy of America's freeperland just good ol' boys out for a lark. This kind of rising menace can happen in the blink of an eye. Be prepared.

from right next door, may have been motivated by hatred of liberals and those they perceived as 'the enemy'. it's plausible.

I was visiting the Southern Poverty Law Center's website the other day, and I got to thinking about that.

Most of you probably know the history of the Metzgers, and WAR. They were sent to prison, deemed just as responsible for the killing of an Ethiopian man as the Portland skinheads who actually killed him.

Remember, too, that OJ was found not guilty, but lost everything in a civil suit.

These RW nuts like Coulter and Limbaugh will someday be just as responsible for inciting or praising some crime against Democrats. It is not that I want to see it happen, but I think it is almost inevitable. When it does, they need to go to jail.

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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?

It's going to get worse.

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With the entire RW out there spreading mindless fear, and DICK running around telling people that if we vote for a Democrat we're almost sure to be 'hit' again, yes, I do think the mouthbreathers are poised for some type of violence against the left.

Not only that, they'll feel completely justified because they will be blaming the loony lefties for making 'them' less safe.
Fits right in with the backward logic of these idiots, sadly.

Lets pray we are just being paranoid.

-chef-

but I believe many Dems are so pissed right now they will not take much prodding from the idiot repukes.

And I wonder that some think Bush is too liberal ( heard this on that Savage program last night- he is one of the chief instigators of violence, IMO) and he could be a target, every bit as much as some fear Kerry could be.
Only part of the problem is that people are on edge.


In the case of the "Christian" who punched the Female Vet in the mouth, many Freepers are used to beating up their wives and kids as a way to keep them under control. They can't help but revert to their private selves under pressure, and they will resort to beating up and otherwise abusing anyone they don't agree with. They are supreme control freaks.

I am armed. Let's just put it that way, but in my neck of the woods I think everyone has a weapon of some sort so everyone should be civil.

... if not more so. It's somewhat surprising to me that we've not had more civil unrest. I feel a far greater and broader anger in the electorate than 30 years ago. It's incendiary. I don't think it would take very much at all for an outbreak of shooting, bombings, and vandalism. I was personally appalled that people didn't take to the streets in millions in December 2000 to protest the usurpation of their vote. Failing to do so, I believe, has led to a far more unstable civil tension, one which will lead inexorably to vigilante-like violence.

The election season is not educamating the reichbots - rock-hard ignorance and egregiously false beliefs are firmly embedded in them, and fed by the rabble-rousing right-wing media. Thus, no matter the outcome of the general election, widespread civil violence is in the offing, imho.

Right-wing radio didn't exist outside the most backwater regions of the South, and there were only 4 TV networks, all of which stuck firmly to the middle.

In addition, people's public manners were better in those days. I noticed a real deterioration of public behavior as the 1980s progressed: aggressive driving, people spitting or littering with a defiant attitude, nasty bumperstickers, ugly pointless grafitti, more uncontrollably bratty kids in public, students who seemed to wear perpetual smirks, more pointless foul language.

In the 1970s, you might see widely publicized confrtonations between "hippies" and "hardhats," but you wouldn't get your car keyed for having a McGovern bumpersticker or have your Democratic lawn signs torn up. Both sides believed in being civil.

Minnesota flipped between Democratic and Republican control several times during my childhood and youth, and it always felt like the difference between blue and purple, rather than like the difference between blue and red, and you never got the idea that the Republicans were trying to sabotage the Democrats. (A state official I talked to at a DFL event confirmed that impression--and said that the state Republicans had gone from reasonable to vicious in just a few years.)

It's an indication of the polarized times that we live in that I'm concerned about what will happen no matter which way the election goes. If Kerry wins, the freepers will make trouble. If, God forbid, Kerry loses, the right wing will become even more insufferable than it is now.

Probably against Muslims or anyone that looks like a Muslim. Things could get worse from there.

Also, government violence against it's opponents, rather real or perceived, is not out of the question.

Internment camps for Muslims, for their own "protection", a la the Japanese internments during WWII?

Fascism has strong thumbs, weak fingers.

It's a truism almost embarrassing to repeat that a particular government might find it suitable to have an enemy in-the-midst, more imagined than real, whom they can point out to the populace as the threat. And from that threat, only this party, this view of the polity they manage, can save the innocent sleep of the citizenry.