My Repub Co-Worker

A male co-worker of mine is very pro-Bush. Since I'm not good at debating, I gave him some articles from DU and other places for him to read. He basically skimmed them and said, "This is just propaganda" and "I'm not going to waste my time on this." How can I have a discussion with him if he won't even try to see the other side of things?? :shrug:

some people wouldn't change their mind if there was overwhelming evidence that Dubya had just robbed a bank. Some people are just blind...PERIOD.

"I judge someone on their voting record." I guess since he has it in his head that "Kerry's a flip-flopper," he can't be trusted with anything. And yes, he did bring up Clinton and his b.j.; repubs can't have one conversation without blaming Clinton for something.

Kerry's voting record on defense is not only entirely defendable, his alleged votes to "cut" certain systems are in line with what Dick Cheney had recommended for axing, as Defense Sec'y.

More to the point, Kerry voted FOR 16 of 19 defense appropriations bills.

This is not propoganda. A Senator has to vote up or down on all kinds of bills. It's been so long since the country has had to consider an actual legislative record in a Presidential candidate (because we keep trotting out these stupid Gov'ners as candidates) that the Reich wing has been able to make the legislative process seem somehow evil. It's not.

There's time to set the country right on Kerry's voting history, and you would not be wasting your time to set your cow orker straight as well. Even if you don't change his mind, you'll bolster your own argument the next time this stuff comes up, and come up, it will.

/bb

I'm actually *glad* these fuckers -- Zell and Dick -- brought up Kerry's voting record. They've tried to gain *so* much mileage out of the "I actually voted for it before I voted against it" Kerry quote.

Well, hurl that back at 'em, I say. This is an excellent example of a responsible vote. Kerry voted FOR an $87 billion appropriation meaure THAT BUSH WAS PLANNING TO VETO because it actually provided a means to fund it through a tax cut rollback which, y'know, *is* SOP in a time of war?

Instead, the 'pugs decided to put the Iraq war funding on the country's credit card. and yeah, Kerry voted against that. More senators should've.

Dammit, that was the right thing to do. I'm pissed off that Kerry's supporters haven't had his back on this. He did the right thing. Kerry just should've added, "Bush was going to veto the appropriations bill before he decided to sign it." It's not too late to say that.

dammit.

/bb

was *ALL* we had to worry about. Clinton was a much much BETTER President than the current idiot will EVER be. I MISS BILL CLINTON!!!!

tell him a liberal fought for those benefits.

Bush could rape their daughters on the dining room table and they'd still be sitting there gushing about what a "moral man" he is.

I had a similar argument with someone from another (un-related) message board. They complained all my documentation was "propaganda"...I'm wondering WTF is the crap he brought me from www.newsmax.com ?! Fair and balanced.....oh nevermind.

increasingly evil deeds in front of a "focus group" and as those with brains run out screaming or vomitting, the bush*lovers would just swoon more and more. One of the bush*lovers should offer up their virgin daughter for sacrifice as bush* rapes her husband.

It boggles the mind why people have any anything for that turd.

he has as much chance of changing his stance as you will yours.

If he gave you a stack of Pro-Bush literature, you would (I know I would), skim it and say, these is bullshit propoganda. Both sides of the isle believe that the other sides position is based on lies.

Politics is like sports. You are not going to convince a fan of the opposing team, to suddenly root for your team.

Concentrate on those who don't necessarily have an opinion one way or the other.

Cheers
Drifter

...Rush, Hannity, etc. Therefore, when my repub mom won't read anything I recommend, I understand where she's coming from. I don't understand where she's at, but I do realize that she is not going to change her mind anymore than I am. I no longer waste my breath on her & consequently raise my blood pressure!

"Politics is like sports. You are not going to convince a fan of the opposing team, to suddenly root for your team.

Concentrate on those who don't necessarily have an opinion one way or the other."

Good advice, but also concentrate on those who are not going to vote because they don't think there's any difference between the repubs & dems or because they feel their vote won't make a difference anyway.

Faux Newz is his Jim Jones.

If he hasn't seen the light by now he is hopeless.

Some folks are just hopeless, I guess...

its a lost cause.

nazis on the Right or Commies on the Left are so similar.

BOTH have putposefully inculcated their followers with a Totalitarian style party-Loyal Sub-Media (exactly the same in purpose and function as Soviet or Nazi media) which inncoulates it's Subjects against rationality and reason by causing them to dismiss ANY Non-party Approved Information as "Jewsih Propaganda".

Excuse me...I measn Liberal Propaganda.

So many Imperial Subjects of Amerika are beyond reach in this way.

A nation simply cannot retain freedom if a substantial minority become "Totalitarianized" like this.

I'd say you should remind this Bushevik Sturmtruppen that his dismissal is IDENTICAL to the blanket Nazi dismissal of "Jewsih propaganda".

But that information is NOT Party-Approved and thus will bounce of of his conditioning.

in determining they would vote for Bush???????

It gives them an opportunity to support their "propaganda" mantra that they use when they are unable to use facts.

Usually it is FOX, Limbaugh, etc. If you are using DU, and other web sites for News items, tell them you also listen to FOX, Limbaugh (if you do), but you also go to numerous other sources.
Do you use fact checking sites, throw a few of them in. Let the person know that you do not automatically accept the media talking heads opinions as fact.

I honestly think that many of the Bush supporter's have a sense that something is terribly wrong but are treating this like they have voted in the past.....if they voted at all. They made a decision to support Bush for some obscure reason and they are going to stick to it because it has become to upsetting and depressing to have to think about it other than for them to pull the lever.

Be gentile and be willing to pass on the information in your casual conversations that you know to be true. They may have and we all do have other personal problems that they are struggling with and are just unable to cope with all the crap coming from this administration.

He could then brandish her bloody head while thumping his chest and making "Ooo-ooh!" ape noises. And people like this would shut their eyes, stuff their fingers in their ears and loudly chant "NAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAH!!!!!! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!"

Don't waste your time.

Of course, this is the reaction of ANYONE who has enslaved themselves to Totalitarianism.

This is the kind of slavish devotion to Volk and Vuhrer that has destroyed other Republics.

Anyone, left or right.

and start attacking bush.


i bet ya you're boy will shut up. my people always do.


i think this is the strategy we all should use. when you have to go on the defensive, it gives a signal that maybe you do have to make excuses for your guy.

Kerry's a solid candidate. I did my research the day before the primaries started and wanted him to win despite him being the dark horse back then. no need to defend him because his record speaks for itself.


dubya's on the other hand can be attacked on so many levels it's not even funny. put your opponents on the defensive for a change.

documentation that would support is wingnut positions.

ask him to find where in the Constitution it says
the Supreme Court can interfere with a State's
Constitutional right to select electors.

ask him to find the process in which a predident
is Elected .

Say "When you find that , I'll listen to you ."