Pentagon Plans to Blow Goats Up, Push them Off Cliffs for 'Training' Purp

http://www.democrats.com/

Just about any psychologist will tell you that an excellent predictor of abusive behavior in humans is how they treat animals: People who abuse animals are many times more likely to engage in violence against other people. Thus it follows that a military that will engage in gross abuse of animals will have no problem abusing prisoners. Although animals have been used to simulate wounds for medic training before, the latest "escalation" of this program involves extreme injuries to goats - including (we are told) subjecting them to explosions and pushing them off cliffs. But the anatomy of a goat, say many seasoned surgeons, is so unlike that of a human that the merit of such programs is dubious - especially as the Pentagon has access to extremely advanced human-simulation programs.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0908-04.htm

Army Set to Injure Goats for Training

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Later this month, medics from the 10th Special Forces Group will learn battlefield medical techniques at the post by treating the goats, which will be sedated and then injured to simulate combat wounds, the Army confirmed Tuesday.

The Army is unapologetic about the nature of the training, saying the goats will be sacrificed to save the lives of soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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The informant said plans call for pushing at least one goat off a cliff, Stephens said.

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Stephens, a biologist, said there are better ways to learn battlefield medicine.

He said the goats could be spared if the Army went hightech, using electronic simulations to replace the animal training.
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talking about falling from a high place:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/09/12/MNG468MM8N1.DTL


Son probes strange death of WMD worker
He believes agents murdered employee of Army to protect government secrets

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The verb is "dropped." And the manual is a how-to guide for assassins.

"The most efficient accident, in simple assassination, is a fall of 75 feet or more onto a hard surface," the manual says, adding helpfully: "It will usually be necessary to stun or drug the subject before dropping him."

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The government has long denied the charge of murder. But it has admitted what might be called negligent manslaughter. Its version: that Frank Olson crashed through the window in a suicidal depression nine days after he was given LSD without his knowledge in a CIA mind-control experiment.
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The only real problem I have with it is that the meat will be going to waste because they plan on killing the goats with lethal injection which means that it wont be fit for human consumption.

"Stephens, a biologist, said there are better ways to learn battlefield medicine.

He said the goats could be spared if the Army went hightech, using electronic simulations to replace the animal training."

I seriously doubt that, plastic and metal dummies, or virtual reality just doesnt cut it.

IIRC dont most army surgeons get most of thier real world training in hospitals in LA or other cities with high crime rates.

Just like Muslims, right.

Those animals are going to be sedated, most of the food we eat doesnt even get that.

Living in denial about the cruelty involved in carnivorism makes it a lot easier to justify war crimes, psychologically.

by that same token vegitarianism is murder too. Plants are living things aswell.

Many animals in the wild also murder, we are animals aswell.

The hope was that we could rise a little higher than the law of the jungle, but that hasn't happened. Hence the deification of the "free market" where only the strong survive. And we get what we settle for.

Using animals for any sort of medical experiment is foolish. Animals are simply not human, and their bodies don't react in the same way the humans do. Their internal structure is different, shaped different, organs are placed different, physical struture of such vital areas as the thoracic cavity is different, etc. Plus their bodies react differently to physical harm and shock. Hormones and biochemicals that are released are different, and are released in differing amounts and times. Symptoms are different. Treatments used to promote healing must be different also, since animals react differently to various medicines than humans. A quick example, a small amount of belladonna will kill a human, yet sheep can eat acres of the stuff without suffering ill effects. Humans can down pounds of chocolate, yet if dogs did the same, they would die.

This simply isn't the way to test these matters. The best way is to throw humans overboard, but this is unacceptable ethically. Electronic simulations and high tech dummies are the way to go. At least their anatomy would be correct, and they would respond accurately to medication.

What happened to my pet goat.........................

George was just doing research.

They were using goats in 1982 when I was at Ft. Bragg. A goat would be assigned to a SF trainee and he would practice battlefield first aid on it after inflicting its wounds.

The Pentagon is going to get tons of protest e-mails.

Like I said before this is my biggest problem, think of the homless people that could be fed.

Or seen how animals are raised for our food?

"Just about any psychologist will tell you that an excellent predictor of abusive behavior in humans is how they treat animals: People who abuse animals are many times more likely to engage in violence against other people."


But Americans love their "happy meals"!
Ever wonder why so many don't give a shit about the carnage/serial killing Bush is delivering upon the world?

Humanely raised and killed meat is high on my list of recommendations if one can find it.
Vegetarianism ain't so bad either..

...unfortunately most people on this site are only progressive, liberal and compassionate when it comes to themselves and could care less what tortures they inflict on the rest of the natural world, so get ready for lots of nasty comments.

By the way, vegetarians kill less plants than omnivores do, because omnivores eat the plants that were fed to animals, which is the least efficient method of food production around.

Read some of Stan Goff's recounting of his time in Special Forces. The Army SF has been doing this for years in order to train its personnel in field surgery.

Goff describes them shooting the goats, performing field surgery on them to patch them up, and then shooting them again -- until the poor goat is so damned torn up that it just dies.

about the goat book!!!

It's the reverse spin!

I never liked goats. All that stuff about me likin' goats is bull. Well, not bull, but goat.

Well, it's really not ALL goats...just one certain disengenuous goat that I hate...so kill them all!

my brother in law was a Green Beret medic in Vietnam.

His stories about the training are pretty harrowing. A lot of men died in the training.

For the medics, they would shoot dogs, then the medics would practice on the wounds.

How else to train them for the field?

I'd rather they trained on a goat than, say, my brother dying in a rice paddy in Vietnam, bleeding to death. Ya know?

It's the military, folks. They are trained to kill and destroy. That's their job.

Get back to your denial of responsibility, citizens. There's nothing you can do about it so let it go on in your name and with your tax money.