"if Kerry gits in, we'll need assault weapons and machine guns'

that's what a redneck caller just said on c-span

you are right -- if Bushee stays in (GOD forbid), we will under siege constantly... mostly by our own government!

That caller must have his eye on some pretty that he can have once he becomes an officer in the Corpos....

We'll ALL need guns if Chimp gets re-appointed....If for nothing more than shooting stray cats for food....

What does it say in the Constitution regarding bearing arms and a tyrannical government? Can you guess who voted FOR all the gun legislation that came across his desk?

Kerry scares me when it comes to gun control and hunting. Here is a recent quote if you haven't already seen it.

“I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel, crawl around on my stomach. I track and move and decoy and play games and try to outsmart them. You know, you kind of play the wind. That’s hunting,”

John Kerry on deer hunting!?!

Guns seem to be our Apple pie. Every one seems to love the GD things. I guess I will be a goner as I have never shot a gun. As an artist I will say some are made very pretty. I have used them in drawings.I had a family member that used to deal in them and as he drank more he used to fire them off more and the State police came and took them away and we never said a thing. When this man died the State Police returned them.We all knew the State police did not have the right to do that but we all felt safer with them holding the guns.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Does he happen to list a reason why? Or is it that he'll take any excuse to get more assault weapons and machine guns?

is in full bloom in America.

1. if he were elected, and
2. at y2k . . .

so much for nutcases!!

. . . . .

poor dumb things.
as soon as his job winds up in bum-fuck, egypt -- he'll be hawking his guns on e-bay and contributing to this great economy.

they'll sit and starve in their double wides down in some holler in tennessee. they'll draw a gubmint check, go down to the county courthouse for their free cheese, let their kids eat govt. subsidized meals at school, then talk about how george w by god bush is a great leader for the amurkan wurking man.

amazing.

Only it was a single-wide in Indiana, I worked a job that let me take home $98 a week while the fucking yuppie scum told me Ronaldus Rex was from GAWD and it was MY fault that was all I was getting and alienated people by asking them if our country had lost its collective mind or something....

That "Gubbmint Cheez" was pretty good quality stuff. I sort of miss it....

Don't be dissin' on the Tennessee hollers. The ones on this rock are going for Kerry, double-wide or no ( mine's a single - but I own it and the land around it outright - luckier than the rent/mortgage crowd, I say). Yes, I have guns, because I'm a 5 foot tall, 100 pound woman and I'll be damned if I'll end up outlined in police tape on my living room floor. I will defend myself.

i don't hunt but could if i had to feed my family. And I don't go to Pro gun sights for the same reason I don't bang my head repeatedly against the wall. Try another less divisive stereotype, couldja?

family's been here 160 years. originally farmers in sumner county. and as i drove through scott, fentress, pickett, overton, and jackson counties yesterday, i saw more kerry signs than i expected.

however, i did see bush signs in front of places that looked like their owners are among those bush is out to screw the worst.

no disrespect meant to you at all. only to the idiots i described in my post.

who has a 12 gauge leaned up in the corner of my closet. If he comes in and starts down my hall the next sound he will hear will be me racking in a shell.

How Republican voters manage to go from double-wide trailers to gated community luxury houses and back again depending on the thread and the axe the poster wants to grind.

WE NEED THOSE VOTERS!!! Why do we have so much contempt for them. We just write them off as unreachable and make derogatory comments about them. The "guys with gun racks in their pickups" vote. Helloooooo??????

This fellow may seem to be a nutcase, but it's an indication of just how deeply engrained is the belief that the Democrats want to take away everyone's guns and their Bibles.

Over the past thirty years, the right has convinced a lot of ordinary people that communist=liberal=Democrat.

The fear of communism generated by the right over more than three generations is gradually being morphed by the right into new enemies, as suits their needs. These were the same fears generated by the right--loss of guns and religion--with anti-communist and anti-union propaganda sixty or seventy years ago.

Just don't be surprised that when you say, "Democrat," some people are thinking, "communist."

The GOP have always been bottom feeders...

Al Smith was attacked frequently for being a Catholic, I believe, but he was, in fact, put up to run by some of the same people who started the American Liberty League, which eventually morphed into American Action Incorporated (started by the same bunch who supported McCarthy for the Senate in 1946).

Cheers.

that Al was going to install the Pope on a Golden Throne on the White House lawn and force Americans to line up and kiss the pontiff's foot...

The American Liberty League wasn't formed until the 1930s...Al ran in 1924.

Smith's campaign in 1928 was run by John Raskob and Jouett Shouse of the Democratic National. They also ran Smith as a presidential candidate in 1932, but lost the nomination to Roosevelt.

The Liberty League was started by Raskob and Shouse, and by 1934, their board meetings were being held in Smith's office in New York, along with a DuPont exec named Carpenter. Much of the anti-union, anti-communist, anti-New Deal rhetoric began around then, but the principal players were all part of Smith's 1928 campaign.

Cheers.

gun-control bullshit entirely.

If the dems would drop the gun-control mantra, no matter how innocuous it may truly be, they'd get a few million voters back.

But, no, the dem leadership just keeps harping on and on and on about "cop killer" bullets, "assault weapons" and shit.

A brilliant move by Kerry right now would be to truly let the AWB die.

Just judging by the people in my family who are basically smart people, but not brilliant, who are unionized factory workers, and also hunters, they are convinced that the dems want to take their guns away, so they smoetimes go republican simply to protect their guns.

GIVE UP ON THE ANTI-GUN BULLSHIT dems!!

(and this is not to argue whether gun control is good; it is to say that Republicans (and sadly, the NRA has helped with that) have so convinced people that the dems want to take guns away, that no matter how small a gun-control idea the dems have, the gun-loving types see "outright ban on all firearms". Also unfortunate is that the Right is almost as good as pasing anti-gun legislation as the left, but the NRA rarely, if ever, reports that).

... are in favor of the AWB, then how many votes might Kerry lose for abandoning support for it? That has to weighed against how many he might gain by ignoring the issues. (And, truthfully, how many NRA members will be voting for Kerry, anyway, if the NRA has its way?)

M'self, the last thing I want to see are crank users on the streets with big magazines....

but they will gain an awful lot of them.

This NRA member will vote for Kerry. But I have to say, I truly believe that Gore would have had a lot more votes last time if the dems weren't pushing for gun control legislation.

And please, I'm not looking for an argument on whether gun control is a good thing, or just how much or how little the dems want to control guns - I'm talking about perceptions. Specifically, the perception amongst an awful lot of otherwise decent people who would most likely prefer to have a decent democrat in office, but who are wary of voting of democrat simply because they believe that democrats want to take all their guns away. Obvoiusly, the dems don't want that (though a few do), but that's the general perception out there. Partly driven by the truth, partly driven by lies spread by the right and the NRA.

Sometimes I cringe when reading my NRA magazines.

But if the dems dropped gun control, the NRA and the right would no longer have that wedge issue.

isn't going to vote Democrat anyway...they hate blacks, Jews, gays and uppity women as much as they love them guns.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

All one has to do to show what I said was true is go to any gun owners' forum...

Because we all know that EVERY "assault weapon" owner participates in EVERY gun owner's forum, so that you have, actually, sampled EVERY "assualt weapon" owner who lives.

What a truly assinine thing to think. Truly assinine.

No matter how they gild it, it's still a road apple....and not a fresh one....

and offered it as the utter, infalible truth.

I showed you that you are wrong.

I know that you have an intense anti-gun stance, and that's fine, that's the lens you've chosen to look through; but at least show some sense and integrity and admit when you've been shown to be wrong in a sweeping generalization. Maybe most "assualt weapon" owners are racists, I don't know. But I proved to you that not ALL of them are.

I'm not even arguing whether "assault weapons" exist, or whether they are good or bad; I'm just telling you not to make the bigoted sweeping claim that all "assault weapon" owners are racist, anti-woman republicans.

That's no different than saying all black people are lazy, or all Germans are punctual or all Irishmen fight.

You didn't show us dick. All you did was pretend that unless every single gun forum was examined, nobody could pick one at random and notice that the posts are pretty much all right wing freeper nonsense...bigoted, ignorant and filled with hate.

And by the way, when there is overt racism or bigotry expressed, or out and out lies about Democrats told, one NEVER sees anybody raising a word of protest over there at a gun nut forum. Feel free to "prove" that wrong, too (snicker).

"I'm just telling you not to make the bigoted sweeping claim that all "assault weapon" owners are racist, anti-woman republicans."
You know, the second I care what someone who's trying to hint that assault weapons don't exist wants, I'll send off a flare. Until then, I'll just keep glancing at those gun nut forums and laughing at the silly claims being made here by the trigger happy.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

and babble about it every day on their idiotic forums.

"That's all I needed, was for you to admit that not ALL "assault weapon" - or even gun - owners are racists and women-hating republicans."
Yeah, there are also libertarian fuckwits who want assault weapons and are racist, anti-feminist imbeciles. As well as the charmers who actually wear swastikas and can hardly wait for the race war to break out.

"unless every single gun forum was examined, and that unless every single living gun owner in the country were represented at these gun forums, that YOU - that's YOU, MrBenchley, spefifically YOU - could not make the claim that ALL gun owners were racist, women-hating republicans and base that claim on your experience at gun owner forums. "
In other words, I'm sure if somebody with a very strong stomach scoured every gun owner forum on earth, and went through every ugly, bigoted, stupid, and dishonest thread by the right wing simpletons and scumbags who post there, someone might find ONE post that wasn't....as well as a bunch of other gun crazy fuckwits shouting him down.

But it's noticeable you didn't even try to produce an example of that. Which only goes to show how right I was to say what I said.

But it's idiotic to pretend that it's worth pandering to the Aryan Nation and the NRA because of one non-bigoted dimwit somewhere so paranoid that he thinks he needs an assault weapon.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Why is it that you can't put any pro-Democrat posts on those forums, being as how you're such a freedom lover and all?

I remember you had a doozy of an excuse but I don't remember exactly what it was, as it is lost in the thickets of excuses (and nothing but excuses) that the trigger-happy have made over the past few months.

I don't spend time at right wing websites myself.

but thanks for confirming that the gun owner forums are right wing cesspools. Shows what sort of scum peddle this "gun rights" rubbish, doesn't it?

Incidentally for those following along...the whole reason the gun owner forums ever came up in the first place was that the hilarious claim was made by some trigger-happy DUers that those places were havens of polite liberal opinion, not intolerant abusive places like DU. Which, like pretty much every other claim made by RKBAers, was sheer horseshit.

However, RKBA is not owned by the right-wing of this country.
Your whole premise is based on the assumption that absolutely
nobody who believes in the right to own a gun can vote democratic, an assumption that is demostrably false. Even you know this although you won't admit it.

"RKBA is not owned by the right-wing of this country"
Sure it is...

"Guns entered national politics in the 1970s. What is called the gun rights movement sprang into motion against a waning civil rights movement and a growing push for women's rights. One organizer of gun rights from the early '70s put it bluntly when I interviewed him. Conservatives were taking a beating. Something was needed to "reverse the flow in the pipes" of the civil rights movement. The social movements based on the rights of women and minorities had bolstered the Democratic Party. Conservatives who had fought against the gains of civil rights and the Equal Rights Amendment needed to counter. Enter the gun.
And when the gun spoke, it championed the cause of conservative and libertarian America. A proxy politics, the gun rights movement is a potent reaction to the social and political agendas of what is perceived as "liberal America." It takes aim at a range of social solutions for crime, international conflict and personal security. In America, the gun has become a litmus test for political beliefs.
The beginnings of this movement were quiet. In the early '70s, the Young Americans for Freedom, a conservative political organization, started the Student's Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. From it sprang the Second Amendment Foundation and then Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. In those groups a righteous cause and a political vision was born. Guns began their career as key props in a changing political theater.
Within two years, the Gun Owners of America organization appeared with its leadership roots in the John Birch Society. Thirty years later, the group remains true to its mission, a watchdog group making sure the gun rights movement stays on course, fulfilling its reactionary conservative mandate. "

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/176458_focus06.html

are "havens of polite liberal opinion, not intolerant abusive places like DU."

If you can show that someone did, then please do.

In fact, no one even said that gun forums are "havens of polite liberal opinion".

Please stick to what was actually said instead of making things up.

which is why I and some other pro gun control folks first went over to take a peek at them...

One of them (not me) sent me this link by PM....

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33227&highlight=%2ADemocratic+Underground%2A

What's hilarious is that not only are there NOT liberal or proDemocrat posts on those sort of cesspools, for some reason our "pro gun democrats" have nothing but excuses as to why they can't put any up there themselves.

in a thread I didn't see, in a thread that isn't this one, the claim was made. I thought you meant someone in this thread said that.

I, for one, am not in the gun forums because I'm not interested in them. Nor am I in any gun clubs. Nor on a trap shooting team. I have no interest in any of them. I'm not into guns enough to want to have constant conversation about them, and, as was my assumption - an assumption which seems to hold truth - the gun forums are populated with enough xenophobic fuckwits to make any visit there maddening and disheartening; many of whom I would think might be quite knowledgable about guns but are otherwise ignorant. I have not the time to waste going to places I have no interest in going to begin with, let alone to go there and "spread the democratic word". Why waste my time? Why try to teach a pig to fly? There are far better ways to bring humanity closer to an ideal of compassion and love than anonymous message boards.

You're the one who goes to those forums - would you try to convert them to not want to have guns? I think that's as much of an uphill battle as trying to get them to stop being xenophobes.

"I, for one, am not in the gun forums because I'm not interested in them."
Gee, for somebody who isn't interested in them you sure as shit made a big fuss today when it was mentioned what IS in them.

"let alone to go there and "spread the democratic word". Why waste my time? "
Hey, you were the one who wanted to pretend before that not all gun nuts were right wing fuckwits....now you want to pretend they are. It's no skin off my nose whether you do or not, because as I said, gun nuts hate blacks, Jews, gays and uppity women more than they love their guns.

"There are far better ways to bring humanity closer to an ideal of compassion and love than anonymous message boards"
And not a fucking one I can think of involves an assault weapon. Go figure.

It would be most helpful if you would actualy read what I write, and try to understand it, instead of ignoring it.

I said: unless every single gun forum was examined, and that unless every single living gun owner in the country were represented at these gun forums, that YOU - that's YOU, MrBenchley, spefifically YOU - could not make the claim that ALL gun owners were racist, women-hating republicans and base that claim on your experience at gun owner forums."

To which you responded: In other words, I'm sure if somebody with a very strong stomach scoured every gun owner forum on earth, and went through every ugly, bigoted, stupid, and dishonest thread by the right wing simpletons and scumbags who post there, someone might find ONE post that wasn't....as well as a bunch of other gun crazy fuckwits shouting him down.

Do you see how what you said has nothing to do with what I said? I said nothing about how there might be people at gun forums who are not racist, bigots, etc. Nor did I say anything about how I believe that liberals post on gun forums. I never said anything that should have made you think that I don't believe that gun forums are frequented mostly, if not totally, by racist etc. fuckwits. I wouldn't doubt it. What I was talking about is that YOU made the claim earlier that all gun owners are racist etc. and that you based that conjecture on your foraging around the gun forums. I'm saying, you can't make that claim, and the reason you can't make that claim is that gun forums don't have every gunowner in the country on them.

You can only make the claim that pretty much all gun owners (or possibly all) WHO POST AT GUN FORUMS are bigoted etc.

The example which proved the falsehood of your claim, which example I produced earlier, was me - I am not a bigoted, racist anti-feminist Republican; nor Libertarian fuckwit imbecile. I am, in fact, a Green. A gun-owning Green.

Hence, your house of cards that says "All gun owners are racist, bigoted etc. libertarians/republicans/whatever" can't stand. There's at least one - me - who isn't. And judging by the number of gun owners at DU, and other gun owners I know, there's more than just me.

Maybe most gun owners are racist imbeciles. Maybe it's only "a lot". Perhaps more than half, perhaps less. I don't know. Given the number of minorities who own guns, and given the people I know, but then juxtaposed against the number of asssholes over at freerepublic and elsewhere who DO worship their guns, it's hard to make an assesment without polling every gun owner. And your experience at the gun forums doesn't really count, since I would wager money that the number of gun owners who frequent gun forums is a very small percentage of those who own guns in this country, and I'm sure that those who tend to frequent them are from the rightwing paranoid segment of gun-owners. Just like we know that the percentage of democrats who frequent DU is very small, and that, thus, we cannot make claims that "all democrats believe" based on what is on DU.

So don't make the claim that all gun owners, or even that the subset of all "assault weapon" owners, are racist anti-feminist etc. people. Because it just isn't true.

Someday you're going to have admit that some decent, honest, liberal Democrats own and enjoy guns, and are still honorable, loyal, people-loving human beings despite it.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Here's what I said....

"Bear in mind that the "we need an assault weapon" bunch
isn't going to vote Democrat anyway...they hate blacks, Jews, gays and uppity women as much as they love them guns."
Sure doesn't sound like I said anything about "all gun owners"...wonder if it's "decent" and "honest" to start a huge tooralloo while pretending that somebody's said something they haven't said? I know that it isn't liberal.

"Someday you're going to have admit that some decent, honest, liberal Democrats own and enjoy guns"
Yeah? Wonder why so few of them can ever be detected? Wonder why I should give two craps, since they got nothing to say on gun owners' forums about the right wing bigotry and lies there.

owners - and those who want them, and those who think people should be allowed to have them - as haters of blacks, Jews, gays, and women.

And if you remember, that's the blanket statement I first challenged you on; which challenge you never actually addressed.

And it is that challenge which I later refined to include your later characterizations of all gun owners, not just "assault weapon" owners, as being that way.

Which of these words did not appear in my post?
A) Weapons
B) Jews
C) Gays
D) All

"I later refined to include your later characterizations of all gun owners, not just "assault weapon" owners, as being that way"
That being the "honest" "decent" "liberal" thing to do, in a pig's eye.

Bear in mind that the "we need an assault weapon" bunch
isn't going to vote Democrat anyway...they hate blacks, Jews, gays and uppity women as much as they love them guns

The implication is not that you mean the ENTIRE "we need an assault weapon" bunch, but just some of the people in that bunch?

I took it to mean you meant all of them, since you said "the bunch". In normal rules of English, when one says "the bunch" one means "the entire bunch".

Obviously, you meant to say "some of the bunch". Maybe "most of the bunch". Perhaps even "damn near every one in the bunch". But, apparently, you didn't mean "the entire bunch".


"I later refined to include your later characterizations of all gun owners, not just "assault weapon" owners, as being that way"
That being the "honest" "decent" "liberal" thing to do, in a pig's eye.

Since you did later characterize, or at minimum heavily IMPLY, that you were talking about all gun owners, then yes, I was being honest in refining my argument to include your new argument.

You're welcome to their company. Me, I'm going to stick with these people.



The smell is much better....

I guess that makes him an "evil, racist, scummy, fuckwit"

Double Doh!!

If you spent half the time you spend here attacking other democrats somewhere else actually fighting against republicans we would be making more progress. Instead, you spend all your time at DU attacking other DUers. Talk about counterproductive.

Oh, that's right, he's for gun control.

do you? Or of actually reading what I have to say, and attempting to understand it? Since you haven't addressed the issue of broad generalizations yet, and continue to insist that I keep company with racists and bigots, contrary to everything I've said, I can only assume you have no interest in anything I say and prefer instead to just debate on things you wish I said no matter how clearly I've articulated what I'm actually talking about. I can only conclude that you aren't willing to address the issue that I raised.

So I end this conversation, since no matter what I say you talk about something unrelated to it which leads me to the inescapable conclusion that you have no interest in dialogue.

"you have no interest in anything I say"
You mean like when you claimed I had said ALL gun owners? Funny how that works, ain't it?

"continue to insist that I keep company with racists and bigots"
It's funny...the actual racists and bigots don't seem to upset you nearly half as much as somebody pointing out that they're there does. And bear in mind, just about every racist that can be found today is peddling this "gun rights RKBA" crap at the top of their wretched lungs. Ted Nugent is on the board of the NRA; the head of the next largest gun group, the Gun Owners of America, is Larry Pratt, so racist that even Pat Buchanan had to flee his company when it was pointed out in public. Just look at the uproar on the web from all the gun owning liberals and Democrats upset that those guys are heading their organiza-can't even type that with a straight face. There's not a speck of evidence any gun owner anywhere is unhappy with the open racism there.

Perhaps if I saw some evidence among gun owners that there was a gun owner on a gun owner forum somewhere who condemned lies, racism or bigotry when they were posted...but I yet to see any.

is that NO law banning guns will keep them off the street.

It's the same with drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.

DEMAND drives an economy. Where there is demand, there WILL be supply. Attempts to squash the supply only increase the price, and therefore, the profit margin that invites more supply.

The best thing that could ever happen to this country is for the Dems to drop the gun debate. Push for regulation, but never ever let the word 'ban' come out of our mouths when it comes to guns.

This is a political reality.

"M'self, the last thing I want to see are crank users on the streets with big magazines...."

Do you think AWB would stop a crank user from buying whatever gun he wished. I'm sure mister user would say to himself "Now what does the ban say about how many rounds I can have?". This law wasn't about the criminals or the terrorists. They will always do/buy what they want!

I cannot understand why the party of Roosevelt and Kennedy has to (ahem) shoot itself in the foot over gun control every time.

We've got a hopeless mess in Iraq, a deficit that's out of control, a trade deficit that's also out of control, an economy living on massive transfusions of printing-press money, a health care system that leaves 40,000,000 people without coverage, and more than 1,000,000 people in prison...and we're talking about taking away 30 round magazines? One doesn't know whether to laugh at the absurdity or to cry with despair.

Sadly, I haven't even touched on the really troublesome issues, such as the generational tidal wave about to hit Social Security, the Peak Oil problem (time is running out, and quickly), North American Peak Gas (if it's a cold winter in 2004-2005, that may hit this year), the transfer of American jobs overseas en' masse...

And yet, we continue to drive away votes over "assault rifles". If someone's life won't be complete without a bayonet lug on their semiautomatic rifle, let them have it. Meantime, can we please start working on the real issues?

:(

Oh yeah, some asswipe with a gun shot him. And his brother.

Notice that neither of those tragedies involved a so-called assault weapon.

as long as they didn't use an assault weapon?

Or do you mean that we ought to let crack dealers and loonies run around with assault weapons since there are too many gun deaths with perfectly ordinary guns?

Let me be more explicit. Assault weapons were not used in those two murders. Assault weapons are rarely used in crimes - as I recall, assault weapons are used in approximately 2% of crimes involving firearms. Thus, 98% of crimes involving a firearm do not involve assault rifles.

From this, I conclude that additional regulation of assault rifles does not make a significant contribution to a reduction of crime.

99.999% of crimes do not involve anthrax....think we ought to let any fucknut who wants some to get his hands on anthrax because it's rarely used?

"Assault weapons are rarely used in crimes - as I recall, assault weapons are used in approximately 2% of crimes involving firearms."
Yeah...that's down considerably since the ban was in place...funny how that works, eh?

Such an approach with a fence-sitter might well drive them to the other side. I wonder how many votes we can afford to squander.

I would also note that a significant number of crimes involve trucks and SUVs. Ergo, we should ban them. (Hey! Maybe that's not such a bad idea! :) )

nor many pretending that it's okay to sell them because JFK wasn't shot with one. And the only ones I've ever run into that were willing to spout gun rights crap out loud were far right wing fucknuts, not "fencesitters."

Nor do I run into many idiots saying "ban cars and trucks"....

The 1986 FOPA which banned further production of machineguns for civilians was signed by Reagan.
The 1989 EO banning importation of certain chinese guns was signed by Bush
McCain is consistently pushing to "close the gunshow loophole".
The 2004 California ban on .50 BMG rifles was signed by the Gropenator.


Not all Dems support gun control. Not all Repubs are against gun control.

and making it seem like a dem-only thing.

Sad, but true. The lying little shits. Seems like the repubs are the ones who really want a disarmed America, so they can overthrow it. But there ya go. With the media at their side, they've convinced the country that the dems are busy trying to ban guns utterly, and the republicans are hardly able to keep up defeating the gun-control legislation.

Evil fascist bastards.

.....the big difference between the two is with Republican it's a death by a thousand cuts, with Democrats it's a quick death.


Basically your picking the lesser of two evils, although more and more they are both looking equally as evil. :(

... it's, rather, the branding of the Democrats by Republicans in a way that makes people think something else when they hear the word, "Democrat." And, to some degree, especially with the uneducated and/or impressionable in the country, that's been working.

Cheers.

If Kerry is elected, the right-wads are gonna need violence to defend their way of life. Ayuh, they're gonna need guns to make us do their bidding because the gummint ain't gonna do it no more.

There's a change a'coming and the radical-right are gonna be left behind without power to control how we think, make love, or recreate. For far too long those who welcome slavery have had the upper hand, and now, once Kerry begins leading the nation, they're going back to being the minority they've always been.

We are the majority: The peace loving, let live, freedom and justice for all types, and we just need to exercise our status and defend our children from those who would make slaves of us all. Kerry is the first step... it's no wonder the right-wads are getting their panties in a bunch... we're gonna flush 'em!

Kerry on.

I've always wondered how the right-wing would have responded if Lieberman had balls to stand up to the military ballot issue. I believe they would have shown what they're made of. Goons and looters waiting to happen.

:shrug:

Sad part is, that really should have been written by a democrat and directed at the fascist republicans. It could be written again this year, directed at the rightwingers, and it would read perfectly.

It's really aimed at the tactics of the rightwing: There will be no negotiating, as there is too much at stake. The party who is on the verge of losing all power in Washington DC has a track record of ill behavior in vote counting. There has also been a pattern, for at least the last decade, of violent death and destruction that takes place when their authority is threatened.

I can't believe that asshole actually thinks the Democrats have done bad vote counting, and that the democrats enact death and destruction when they are about to lose authority. They've not done any such things.

Jeez.

All the more reason to get the rightwing out of power - because they have all the power, but are paranoid and evil and continue to scream that they don't have any power. ARGH!! My mind can't take it!!

Yeah, surrrrrrrre.....

If that Blowhard were running for president, it looks like the freeper gun nuts would vote for him. By their replies, they agree. He's not an isolated and ostracized "blowhard," but is their hero.

You're in more danger that dinosaurs will come back to earth and bite you than you are of a blowhard like that ever shooting off anything but his yap.

But yet you act like anybody here who owns a gun is somekind of whacked out mad man bent on a murderous rampage. Get your story straight bench.

Did you post your opinion over there?

Why post it here and not there?

Nice try, but you can't blame me for that freeper thread.

And, no, I don't fear them at all but think they are pathetic.

Try looking up "sarcasm."

You are a complete moron, just like your hero GWB.

Ten deleted messages in a row! LOL!

always spurting "Git-R-Done". :eyes:

Stupid, mindless idiots.

This topic has been discussed a lot in the Justice/Public Safety forum, and there are too many personal attacks and inflammatory posts here.