I walked up to a lady with a "Choose Life" License Plate on her car

and asked her if she was for the War in Iraq! She said she supports the war 100 percent. I turned around and walked away shaking my head.

Nice to show people their hypocricy.

it's obvious she showed no sign of being conscious of the disconnect going on.

This is what fractures me time and again. How do people DO that?! When someone points out an inconsistency or contradiction in my logic or position, I trace it back to the root and figure out what I really mean. Then I make a correction.

How on earth do people simply go on saying "yup, yup, yup, war is peace, we had to destroy the village in order to save it, yup, yup, yup."

It makes my head explode.

many as the neocons say is necessary to keep us safe.

you need to rub their noses in it. Subtlety doesn't work.

the latter was, actually, much of a problem.

I guess they just don't want to just say "abortion" alone so they decided to tack on SOMETHING else - "euthanasia" sounded right.

(War? Capital punishment? Fine & dandy - bring 'em on!!)

as long as we don't kill them outright. Let them suffer slowly and miserably. After all, in this era of "personal responsibility," they should be responsible for themselves or, lacking that, have others willing to take care of them just as *bush junior did all his life.

... than to be born into poverty!

Don'tcha just love the "reasoning" of these people? Twisted. :grr:

in the prisons. The right to lifers are always very pro-death penalty.

I mean, um, they're tough on crime.

:evilfrown:

with a shirt that said "Choose Life". I walked up to her and said, "Thank you for supporting Choice. I am Pro-Choice, too, and it's good to see a fellow supporter." I then walked away smiling and giving her the thumbs-up as she sputtered and fumed and didn't get to say anything. :hi:

are also pro-death penalty? I heard a comedian put it nicely once: "It's like fishing - throw 'em back, wait 'til they get bigger, and THEN kill them."

Call em on it. Don't just shake your head!

I would have said, "Then your bumper sticker is a lie, and you're a hypocrite."

THEN walk off.

if a pro-lifer is required to be all ghandi about everything, then i presume a pro-choicer should be all about choice and freedom. school choice. suv choice. gun choice. etc.

All the others adversly affect other people. Silly.

abortion, it seems to me affects more than one person. two people at least.

Get it.

I am against abortion,but for choice by the way.

you probably shouldn't ever have an abortion.

I do not happen to agree with your (implied) definition of personhood, however, so I am free of your moral constraints on this issue. Hooray for me.

That might require some thought on your part...let us know when you arrive at an answer consistent with your particular beliefs.

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:evilfrown:

The father? That's the only one I can think of, because I don't consider a fetus a person during the first few months that the vast majority of abortions take place.

Which means that, if you are scientific in the way you see the world, you should view the fetus in each stage of its development as you view the animal in the corresponding stage of human evolution.

If you believe in the humanity of the embryo, then you are a mystic. Fine with me. A lot of practicing scientists hold religious beliefs. But keep it out of government.

If, on the other hand, you claim to hold a scientific viewpoint, either you are a hypocrite or you are going very hungry. Because your view means, in this case, that you cannot kill or eat ANY organism, all the way back to the single cell.

And I bet you've masturbated as well, you genocidal maniac!

:P

But Pro-Choice means also choosing to have a baby. Whenever I see a "Choose Life" sign or sporter, I always thank them for being pro-choice.

Pro-Choice is a very different thing from pro-abortion. I don't think I could personally abort a baby should I become pregnant. However, views on when life begins are varied depending on religion and culture, among other factors. And unless a person has personally experienced every woman's situation when it comes to pregnancy and abortion, they have no right to pontificate. I haven't experienced this and therefore I do not impose my beliefs on others. How can some old, rich white guy in Washington have any idea what it's like to be alone, desperately poor and pregnant? Or what it's like to get impregnated by a rapist? Or what it's like to find out your child will be horribly disfigured and sick their whole life because of a birth defect? Or what it's like to know that you would have trouble finding an adoptive home for your baby because he or she isn't white, so your choice is to care for a baby you aren't equipped to raise or take your chances and hope the baby doesn't get bounced from foster home to foster home? Nobody can know all of these things, and therefore they have no right to cast stones.

The part that makes me sick about many pro-lifers is that, in my experience, many of them are fundies and Republicans. Therefore, they frown on sex education, they frown on birth control, and they frown on government-supported programs to help people like poor single mothers. It's a vicious cycle. People don't get educated about sexuality (as if that's just going to make it go away. HELLO, it's a natural, biological function people!), they aren't given information or options for preventing pregnancy, they're shamed into keeping their babies when they get pregnant, they have fewer and fewer options when it comes to child-care and employment...so the cycle just gets perpetuated. And of course it's these fundie pro-lifers who are the first to shake their heads about the moral decay of our country when they hear about a child abused or neglected.

in what universe are these things mutually exclusive?

and what's with the "Gandhi" (spelling, please!) ref??

Whatever point you were trying to make, you missed. My advice: don't reload.

who wears leather. Pro-lifers who support the war are hypocritical because they claim to care about the sanctity of human life. They also claim that abortion is murder because they believe that life begins at conception and argue that the "unborn" are innocent. However, those individuals who are sincerely pro-life and are fairly intelligent realize that war does nasty things to the born and the "unborn." When a nation is attacked, pregnant women are not spared from the suffering and dying. Their homes are bombed ("Shock and Awe") and they have to struggle to get their basic needs meet such as food and water. It goes without saying quality prenatal care is often not available to pregnant women.

:crazy:

Is a bumper sticker I see now and again and think it says it all.

Who am *I* (and who has the right) to tell other people what they can and can't do with their own bodies?

They make distinctions based upon innocence / guilt and killing / murder.

Killing is OK, and in fact supported by the Bible; murder is NOT OK. The death penalty and Iraq war are "killing," which is OK. Abortion is "murder," NOT OK.

If one is "guilty," then "killing" is OK. If one is innocent, "killing" becomes "murder" and then is NOT OK.

They have their conflicting sides down to a religion, and their religion explains all these contradictions to them.

and pretend there are never innocent civilians killed in war, nor are innocent people ever convicted of crimes and executed. To them, it just comes with the territory. Sort of "Oh, well, we're only human. We all make mistakes."

And God being against abortion is not mentioned anywhere in the bible.:shrug:

Conservative slogans are non-sequiter

that we all instantly knew what that bumper sticker meant. I think what I hate most about the right wing is that they have stolen our language, our ability to communicate.
Every one of us here chooses life in the larger wonderful context of wanting all alive to live well with freedom and joy and without hunger and need. Yet the right gets to say that they are "pro-life" implying that we are pro-death when they want to go to war, exercise the death penalty, encourage policies that destroy our environment and lead to disease and starvation for millions.

How did we allow them to misuse our language? And how do we get it back?





edit for spelling

should be forced to choose life ,she has no right to say who should live and who should die, that's what we have republicans for. sheeesh don't you get it?

Of course, this is never about the value of life. It is about control. They seek to dominate our lives with their arrogant opinions and beliefs. They "know" what is best for all and spend a lot of energy to force their will on the rest of us.

They can't have it both ways.... And if they support the war then they need to be aware that many innocent human beings are being killed....and those human beings are just as innocent as the fetus in a womans body.

It's like you have to use the manual override switch to turn off some compassionate part of your brain.

I don't possess such a switch.

I overheard a nurse telling a young lady that if she needed emergency contraception (morning after pill), to call the office. The nurse went on with a technical explanation of how it works.

The nurse then went into a rant about how the embryo is a separate entity because the white blood cells are filtered out of the mother's blood before it gets to the embryo. She said the white blood cells would attack the embryo as a foreign object, and therefore it proves all abortion is murder, because the embryo is a separate entity from conception.

Does anyone here with medical knowledge know if her statement about the white blood cells is true or not? If it is true, it won't change my stance on pro-choice, I'm just curious if the nurse was spreading abortion propaganda or not. Thanks.

or as bothered by it - as normal people are.

there pro future life. Once there born it's ok to kill'em