US officers could care less if female troops are raped (and they are)

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target%20Homepage.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=84&rnd=861.8188157190132


By April 2004, rapes and assaults of American female soldiers were epidemic in the Middle East. But even after more than 83 incidents were reported during a six-month period in Iraq and Kuwait, the 24-hour rape hotline in Kuwait was still being answered by a machine advising callers to leave a phone number where they could be reached.

“Nobody had a telephone number, for crying out loud,” says Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, then commanding general of the 800th Military Police Brigade, who was in Kuwait preparing to bring her unit home after running the military prisons in Iraq.

Military stupidity at its finest, or senior male brass who chose to shrug and look the other way?

Karpinski believes the latter. “Reports of assault ... were mostly not investigated because commanders had other priorities,” Karpinski says. “The attitude of Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez,” then the ground commander in Iraq, “permeated the entire chain of command: The women asked to be here, so now let them take what comes with the territory.”

According to Karpinski, Brig. Gen. Michael J. Diamond, then commander of the 377th Theater Support Command in Kuwait, followed Sanchez’s lead and refused to take any proactive steps toward stopping the rapes.
-snip-
(read the rest of the article and get even angrier)
-----------------------------------

"let them take what comes with the territory."

Hey Diamond dirt - it's your territory

could we get Sanchez and Diamond alone in a dark alley?

if the military won't help these women, could we?

was trying to create and maintain an unsafe environment.

Wonder what his history is?

I would blow the SOB away in a heartbeat

for the brunt of the BLAME. Oh Skittles, it's all so FUBAR!

when I was an Airman in the Air Force, a Sergeant was constantly trying to paw me. One day he cornered me in an office and I picked up the nearest object - a big stapler - and smashed him in the face with it. Broke his nose and some teeth. He threatened to press charges and I laughed and told him to go ahead - I'd get testimonies from half the women on the base about what a pig he was. Guess what? That f***wit never messed with me again - proving that they can INDEED "help themselves". What I did certainly was more effective than any amount of litigation.

What you did was the right thing and should be taught to all women in the military. While I hate to paint in broad strokes in any situation, the majority of military commanders don't want to deal with the situation of service member rape and any woman that assumes reporting it will result proper handling is misguided. As for other comments posted here as to opening yourself up for the "Brunt", I would reply, well do you want to be left raped and possibly beaten with little recourse or protect yourself and then make a lot of public noise about an issue the commanders want to go away. There is nothing wrong with self defense, up to and including shooting the SOB.

During my time in I had to deal with two such situations. The first with a young Navy airman who reported an attempted rape to me while I was the night shift NCOIC in a mixed Navy/Marine Corps training command. I dutifully reported it to my CO. The following day after an hour of intense grilling/berating/belittling of the young airman for accusing a "respected" Petty Officer she was sent to her quarters where she attempted suicide. She had been raped prior to joining and the ordeal she was put through was the final straw. Upon release from the hospital she was discharged as "unsuitable". The "respected" Petty Officer was a complete asshole and should have been dishonorably discharged.

The second time took place during a field training exercise in 29 Palms. A female friend of mine, (another E-7) was harassed outside a beer tent by a grunt sergeant, who in total disregard for her protests & superior rank was all over her. Luckily I was close by and able to arrest the offending Marine. It took the two of us, senior staff non-commissioned officers, putting maximum pressure on to get the charges processed. The officers didn't want to deal with it, after all you wouldn't want to taint the reputation of the Corps. My fellow Gunnery Sergeant confided to me later on that rape was a common occurrence during the training exercises and that they were advised to travel in two's or with a trusted male Marine.

I cannot even imagine what the situation is like for women service members in the Iraq war zone, but I can hazard a guess as to how it is handled when reported. Sexually harassment, abuse, and rape in the military is a subject that gets little press and yet one that deserves our utmost attention. I lack the words to describe how much it disgusts me that it still occurs. And at the risk of really going off on a rant I will now end my thoughts on the subject, well with one final thought to the women serving today: if you can, FIGHT BACK with unrestrained use of force!

They had a scary figure like 1 in 4 women serving over there experiencing some sort of sexual abuse or assault.

Even more reason to fight the draft. ESPECIALLY if it includes women! Can you imagine what that number will look like if they make hookers completely verboten?

FSC

I have trouble knowing where to start.

Can you imagine what that number will look like if they make hookers completely verboten?

Rape is NOT an alternative to consensual sex for those who can't get a date. Rape is NOT about sex, it's about power; the closest it comes to sex is VIOLENCE SEXUALIZED (which is sick).

Further, your statement relies on a premise that men are somehow entitled to sex and if they don't get it (via a consensual relationship with a date/girlfriend or prostitute) they just might go wild and have to RAPE someone. Because, they just CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES. They have no control over these forces of nature. Your statement is almost a justification for rape. BULL SHIT. Men are NOT entitled to sex, they DON'T resort to rape as an alternative, and they CAN control themselves.

Once again: Rape is an act of violence, power and control, NOT sex.

:eyes:

I am a woman. I know rape is an act of violence. I also know that it often happens on dates when men don't get what they feel they are entitled to. It happened to a good friend of mine.

I'm not making excuses for anyone. I just know that speaking personally, I would be uncomfortable stuck out in the trenches with a bunch of horny guys who hadn't had leave in a long time, and had no other outlet.

MOST men can control themselves in a situation like this. There are obviously a few that can't, or we would not be hearing about this problem, would we?

I'm not making excuses for anyone. I just know that speaking personally, I would be uncomfortable stuck out in the trenches with a bunch of horny guys who hadn't had leave in a long time, and had no other outlet.

Again, rape isn't about being horny or even satisfying one's sexual urges, it's about exercising power and control over and humiliating/degrading women. As I said, rape is violence against women sexualized.

Put another way, rapists are sexually turned on (aroused) by the thought of humiliating, degrading and physically and emotionally HURTING women (or a woman), NOT by her sexuality or sexual appeal.

So there's no connection between normally "horny" men and rape. There's no connection between rape and whether prostitutes are available or not. Rape is first and foremost an act of violence against women, NOT an act of sex. Rapists are "turned on" (aroused) by the violence, NOT the woman, in much the same way that I understand some arsonists find setting fires sexually arousing.

If you would be afraid of your male counterparts in the trenches, you would be fearing a myth, not the truth. Your biggest "threat" would probably be fending off ardent sweet talk.

MOST men can control themselves in a situation like this. There are obviously a few that can't, or we would not be hearing about this problem, would we?

I'm not sure to what extent rapists can "control" themselves, at least in all circumstances (since all rapists are serial rapists and rape is by definition an irrational act), but the type of control you're talking about is, again, not the issue because normal sexual desire is not the issue, the desire to degrade and humiliate thruogh violence is.

really? where d'you get that little gem? if you'd said MOST or MANY you might have emerged with slightly more credibilty on that one.

Not to mention your constant reference that rapists want to hurt women as if no men are ever raped, as you say it's about POWER not about male to female violence - if it were no men would ever be raped, and no women would ever be perpetrators - I'm not sure the exact definition of rape in the US but where I live any forced sexual penetration is rape and I know women who've been abused and raped by their female partners.

This isn't the "women are victims" issue you make it out to be.

Get a clear view from up there?

Rape is not merely about power; it's a combination of sex and power(mainly through a sexual outlet). It's an attempt for one to keep the upper hand by satisfying one's sexual urges.
Just as there are degrees to murder, sadly there are agrees to rape as well(such as so-called "date rape"). It isn't always about power through the humiliation of another; it is just as much about having sex with a non-consenting partner. If it were merely about someone trying to overpower another, then more than likely such a situation would result in murder or physical assault. That's just my crude hypothesis of the mind of the human animal, I guess.

because djinn expressed so well what I am feeling.

Your condescension and rudeness is really unnecessary. We all have opinions to express here. Not everyone agrees with you. Nor should we have to.

FSC

ANd no, not everyone agrees with me, but those who don't in this thread and on this topic are unfortunately not fully cognizant of the facts and the reality of the issue.

And if that sounds arrogant, well, so be it. As I told djinn, I don't really see that as my concern.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

you do.

And you don't know a fucking thing about me.

nt

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

not just in the military. That's one of the last places it SHOULD happen, but it's not the only place it is happening.

I was responding to the provocative posts above.

if they were here they'd be sexually assaulted too.

soldiers visiting prostitutes?

Might call for female stateside inmates to be sent overseas as "comfort women".

Prostitution vs. rape? I'd say a lot of the anti-occupation forces are aware of the rates of HIV infection in countries where US soldiers "play".

...The greatest freedom giving army of the world (:P) rapes their own but fights for unburkaness in Afghanistan....

so friggin bizarre.
so fucking barbarian.

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

Gave a shit about the sexual assault and rape happening at Abu Ghraib.
Many people will simply see this as proof that women in the armed forces are a problem - not that rapists in the armed forces are a problem.

who wasn't even in the chain of command for the problems at Abu Ghraib. That works real well. :eyes:

Many people will simply see this as proof that women in the armed forces are a problem - not that rapists in the armed forces are a problem.

Well, at least you got that part right. You might apply the same principle to the Abu Ghraib problem as well.

YOU do NOT have all the answers when it comes to sexual violence and sexism, based on your posts that may come as a wee shock to you.

Did I say anywhere I BLAMED her I just find her dismissal of what happened to those at the prison compared with her outrage at US victims of rape kind of typical.

And I don't need your condescending "well atleast you got that right" comment - have you ever read your posts back and thought about how arrogant you come across, you do not speak for all women, you do not have the final say on what is and isn't sexism and you don't have the only valid opinion on these issues. Just try pulling your head for a while.

Just as racism and homophobia do.

So I'll get off my "high horse" as you call it when women are no longer dying just because they are women; when the pay scale between men and women is totally equal; when the right to full control over our bodies is no longer even in question; and when little boys aren't called sissies or grown men pussies or in any other way compared to girls or women as an insult or to degrade and humiliate the males involved.

YOU do NOT have all the answers when it comes to sexual violence and sexism, based on your posts that may come as a wee shock to you.

I know more than you do. Why do you resent that, and the fact that I speak up? Could your hyper-reaction (some would call it an abreaction) to my post be a clue as to why?

Did I say anywhere I BLAMED her I just find her dismissal of what happened to those at the prison compared with her outrage at US victims of rape kind of typical.

I have never seen any comment of hers that seemed dismissive of what happened at Abu Ghraib. But the fact remains that she was taken OUT of the chain of command while Military Intelligence, CIA and CIA-connected contractors were installed. She was even barred from visiting that particular unit of the prison she was otherwise responsible for. Can we say "scapegoat"?


And I don't need your condescending "well atleast you got that right" comment - have you ever read your posts back and thought about how arrogant you come across, you do not speak for all women,

Actually, I DO speak on behalf of all women. Again, why does that make you so angry? You might want to take some time and look at that, your emotional response to my post(s). Or not.

Also, what I said wasn't condescending. If you found it so, I consider that your problem, not mine.

you do not have the final say on what is and isn't sexism and you don't have the only valid opinion on these issues.

Well, I don't consider inherently sexist and misogynist "opinions" valid in any way. YMMV.

"I know more than you do. Why do you resent that, and the fact that I speak up? Could your hyper-reaction (some would call it an abreaction) to my post be a clue as to why?"

Really - how the fuck do you make that assumption - calling you arrogant is NOT a hyperreaction - it's a patently obvious fact.

"Actually, I DO speak on behalf of all women. Again, why does that make you so angry? You might want to take some time and look at that, your emotional response to my post(s). Or not."

You speak for ALL women????? how is that? who voted you as our spokesperson, I must have missed that one - your view seems to be that any women who disagree's with you is wrong - you don't think that's arrogant. I actually find it kinda demonstrative that most of the time you reply with the most venom and anger towards women??

I actually don't think someone so myopic has opinions worth considering either.

I'll tell you what is arrogant. Claiming ot be the spokesperson for your entire gender. Now THAT is arrogant.

You do not speak for me El.

Julie

charge. she was intentionally left out of the loop.

was about her "atleast you got it half right" comment and the fact that she has decided with zero evidence that she knows more about the issue than other posters, that she speaks for all women, and that anyone who disagrees with her is sexist.

It's not like it's a one off thing this is her general MO.

"In his final report, Major General Antonio Taguba blamed Karpinski for the abuse by not paying attention to the daily operations of the prison. According to Taguba, Karpinski rarely visited the prisons during her tenure, and reviewed and signed reports about claims of abuse without following up to make sure her orders were carried out. As a consequence, the abuse was allowed to continue and her subordinates developed a lax attitude towards protocol."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janis_Karpinski

Even if, as she claims, the fault lies with intelligence officers who encouraged the abuse, what happened when she tried to report it? Did she get an answering machine and not have a phone?

I think we can both take the message and shoot the messenger in this case, as the parent poster was doing.

They REMOVED her from the chain of command over that part of that prison. She was not even allowed in that part (cell) of that prison. They pur a military intelligence Colonel, I think his rank was, in charge of that cell, and Karpinski didn't even have access.

She may or may not have been a good, effective or efficient leader, I don't know and wouldn't dream of trying to defend her on any of those issues. I DO know, however, that to hold her responsible for the torture at Abu Ghraib is unfair and, if/when prosecuted, a gross miscarriage of justice given the FACT that she simply had absolutely no way to affect what was going on in that cell.

She was a general. She is at fault. (SO are MANY others)

Karpinski was the MP brigade commander

I don't normally reply to messages on DU, but I felt this one needed a dose of reality. For honesty's sake, I must tell you that I am a member of the Navy, but I hope you don't hold that against me. I am also a very honest person, and enjoy a good debate.

The reason I feld compelled to respond to this particular item is because of the the important data the story intentionally leaves out to make the military look bad. Regardless of what you may have been led to believe, the men and women in the US military are not born in some forest and raised by wolves. We come from the same small towns, go to the same colleges, and have families just like anyone else. Our leaders are just as concerned with the people who work for them, both men and women, as any other leader in any other profession. If fact, I would argue, they are far more concerned.

So, how could the above story be true if what I am saying is true? Take a look at the missing vital statistic: the 83 incidents reported were out of 60,000 women stationed in the middle east. And the actual statistics were for a year, not for six months.

Now, compare that to the incidents of rape on college campuses: a 1998 National Violence Against Women survey found that an equivalent number of women (60,000) on our college campuses report 1800 sexual assaults each year. More than 20 times higher. Why? The primary reason is that the opportunities for rapes to occur are far less in the military, particularly in the middle east. Servicemembers are usually under scrutiny. Further, while college campuses typically have bars and parties to go to every night where alcohol is served, rarely are servicemembers able to go out and drink together, again, particularly in the middle east.

The important thing to note here is that even one assault is too many, regardless of where it happens. But lets at least recognize that, statistically speaking, the military is handling this situation far better that any university is.

Both for your posts intent and for the flawed logic used.

The intent of the original post was not aimed at "making the military look bad". It was to point out a legitimate problem in Iraq, rape in the military, a problem that has faced the armed services for YEARS.

"The important thing to note here is that even one assault is too many, regardless of where it happens. But lets at least recognize that, statistically speaking, the military is handling this situation far better that any university is."

The military has never handled it well and will continue to not address it as required. As I noted in post 13 this atrocity is nothing new and comparing college stats for rape to those in the military is at best flawed logic, the kind the Freepers like to use.

And before you use the University stats to make your point, how about doing a logical analysis before making broad stroke comparisons. How about reporting the follow up actions in the "reported" cases to the University compared to those of the "reported" cases in the military. Tell me how many were prosecuted on both sides and the outcome of all.

And before you accuse me of being anti military Mr. "1" post "member of the Navy" "I don't normally reply to messages on DU" consider this, not all of us here are out to trash the military for sport and have in fact served honorably for numerous years.

And we now await your 2nd post.

Gunny C
USMC (Ret.)

I don't believe anything in my post could be construed as a personal attack against you or the original poster. I said the "story" was flawed, not the "post." I did not attack anyone here as being anti-military, and I still do not. You have imputed several unsupported allegations in your somewhat personal attack on me, without any provocation. I simply challenged the story.

If the original "story" was not designed to make the military look bad, why did the reporter not include comparative statistics on the incidents of rape and how they were handled? The lack of those statistics provides insight into the intent of the article, no?

As to rape, yes, there is a legitimate problem in the military. Just as there is a legitimate problem in all society. It is no worse in the military than it is in the civilian world. The statistics actually indicate it is less prevalent in the military. By the way, I don't understand why you say the comparison to college statistics is flawed. Please explain. The ages of the people are the same, the backgrounds are similar, so why can't they be compared?

You say do a logical analysis about outcomes. Looks to me, based upon the statistics cited by the National Violence Against Women survey, there are very few college rapists being prosecuted. Perhaps the universities are concerned with damaging their reputation by disclosing the number of rapes on campus? In fact, that is exactly what is happening. Colleges routinely under-report crimes to make themselves look good to potential students.

As I said in the original post, I enjoy a good debate. There is no need to make it personal.


US Navy Enlisted Electrician's Mate (E-5)
US Navy Submarine Officer (O-3)
US Navy JAG (O-3)

"You say do a logical analysis about outcomes. Looks to me, based upon the statistics cited by the National Violence Against Women survey, there are very few college rapists being prosecuted. Perhaps the universities are concerned with damaging their reputation by disclosing the number of rapes on campus? In fact, that is exactly what is happening. Colleges routinely under-report crimes to make themselves look good to potential students."

Ah, the Universities under-report, but the military never does so to make themselves look good. So enlighten us as to to the "numbers" for both sides. And do so fairly, use real statistical procedures, not those used like the pollsters to skew the results. Well, where are they? Where's the link? And where is the comparative report to the military?

As to correlation between Military and college students: the differences are many, the entire lifestyle and general mentality is different. To say they are the same based on age and background is at best absurd. Unless of course you have a "study" to prove otherwise. Having moved from the professional military community to the college campus I can tell you they are as different as night and day.

You want to cite statistics but what is the basis of the numbers? What study are you citing? Were they done in accordance with acceptable scientific methods or the new wave half assed method of popular polls? Or are you just comparing apples to oranges on the fly.

"As I said in the original post, I enjoy a good debate. There is no need to make it personal."

Good debates are personal. It's about beliefs, values, and principles. If you believe it is just business you should try out for The Apprentice, but in this case we are talking about human lives, not a job. That said, I hold nothing "personal" against you, but I am offend by the stupidity of "defending" a flawed system that holds no regard for the protection of its members.

"US Navy Enlisted Electrician's Mate (E-5)
US Navy Submarine Officer (O-3)
US Navy JAG (O-3)"
And you are now which of these? And you have served boots on the ground where? And you have any real experience in military rape trials or reporting where? Been there, done that. I've seen injustice up close and personal at the cost of a wonderful service womans pride and sense of self worth. The original story merely calls it like it is. Sorry it didn't meet your paint the military in a good light always mentality.

And now, where is your REAL proof of what you profess, show me a scientific study.

The Real Deal
Gunny C

BUTTTTT...I need a post count. ARRRGGGGHHHH!!!

You want logic, but appear to be ignoring it whenever convenient. Universities under-report, and SO DOES THE MILITARY. So, where does that leave us? We only have the reported numbers to go by. Since the universities report TEN TIMES HIGHER RAPE REPORTS as compared to the military, then I guess, factoring in the unreported in both cases, universities experience TEN TIMES HIGHER RAPE INCIDENTS.

You say the "entire lifestyle" is different? Yes, I have to agree, having lived both. College: sedentary, ridiculously lax lifestyle, based upon a 5th grade education, focused on a self-absorbed group of spoiled children who think they have an actual opinion because they read it in a book in freshmen economics. Compared to the disciplined, far more challenging life that the average military person leads.

About the personal aspect, I never DEFENDED any system. I only called for fairness in reporting. I'm sure I don't need to point out to a Gunny that there are some in this society who casually refer to you as a baby killer because you had the audacity to serve your country. I respect your service, and your opinion. But I disagree with the underlying bias of the original article. Oh, and you asked for links and references, so here goes:

1994 - Nationwide Statistics

137,000 rapes, attempted rapes, and sexual assaults were reported to the police (3.7 per 1000 women and 0.2 per 1000 men in the U.S.)

316,000 estimated rapes or attempted rapes (R/AR) were committed. This means 868 R/ARs each day, or 36 R/ARs per hour, or one rape/attempted rape every 1.6 minutes.

The number of estimated rapes increased by 5% from 1993 to 1994. Extrapolating this rise to 1996, there would be one rape every 2.9 minutes and one attempted rape every 3.5 minutes.

64% of rape survivors did not report the crime to the police.

2/3 of rape and sexual assault survivors knew the assailant.

People in households with incomes of $15,000 or less were 3 times more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted.

The relationship between the rape survivor and the offender breaks down like this: Relatives 11%, Well-known 35%, Casual acquaintance 21%, Stranger 33%.

Rape locations were 37% at or near victim's home or lodging, 21% at or near friend/relative/neighbor home, 42% all other locations.

WEAPONS In rapes/attempted rapes/sexual assaults: 84% were unarmed, 6% used a firearm, and 10% used an edged or blunt weapon.

Occurrence of Sexual Assault and Rape Among Women Students in Virginia Colleges and Universities
1995 Virginia State Council of Higher Education Report
Based on 1994 Survey
% Women in Sample Who Have...
% Sampled Freshmen Who Have...
% Sampled Upper-class Women Who Have...
...given in to unwanted sex play or intercourse because of man's emotional pressure
16%
14%
17%
...given in to sex play because of physical threat or inability to resist
6%
5%
6%
...had a man attempt to have sexual intercourse by intimidation or when she was unable to resist
2%
1%
3%
...had a man complete inter- course by using intimidation or when she was unable to resist
3%
1%



Article: Sexual Assault Statistics
John D. Foubert, Ph.D.

How Often Does Rape Happen to Women?

One in Four college women report surviving rape (15%) or attempted rape (12%) since their fourteenth birthday. (1)

In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered “yes” to the question “In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?” Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime. (2)

In a typical academic year, 3% of college women report surviving rape or attempted rape. This does not include the summer, when many more rapes occur. (3)

In the year 2000, 246,000 women survived rape and sexual assault. This computes to 28 women every hour. (4)

A survey of high school students found that one in five had experienced forced sex (rape). Half of these girls told no one about the incident. (5)

Rape is common worldwide, with relatively similar rates of incidence across countries, with 19%-28% of college women reporting rape or attempted rape in several countries. In many countries, survivors are treated far worse than in the U.S. (6)

Are Men Raped?

3% of college men report surviving rape or attempted rape as a child or adult. (3)

In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 4% of men answered “yes” to the question “In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?” (2)

Who Are The Perpetrators?

99% of people who rape are men, 60% are Caucasian. (7)

Between 62% (4) and 84% (1) of survivors knew their attacker.

8% of men admit committing acts that meet the legal definition of rape or attempted rape. Of these men who committed rape, 84% said that what they did was definitely not rape. (1)

More than one in five men report “becoming so sexually aroused that they could not stop themselves from having sex, even though the woman did not consent.” (8)

35% of men report at least some degree of likelihood of raping if they could be assured they wouldn’t be caught or punished. (9)

One out of every 500 college students is infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. (10)

First-year students in college tend to believe more rape myths than seniors. (11)

Sexual assault offenders were substantially more likely than any other category of violent criminal to report experiencing physical or sexual abuse as children. (7)

In one study, 98% of men who raped boys reported that they were heterosexual. (12)

Who Are The Survivors?

41% of college women who are raped were virgins at the time. (1)

42% of rape survivors told no one about the rape. (1)

41% of women who are raped expect to be raped again. (1)

False reports of rape are rare, according to the FBI, occurring only 8% of the time. (13)

Females aged 16-19 are four times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault. (4)

Rape survivors report defining their experience in many different ways. ¼ define it as rape, ¼ think it was a crime but did not know it was rape, ¼ believe it was serious sexual abuse but did not know it was a crime, and ¼ report not feeling victimized by the experience. (14)

Circumstances of Rape.

57% of rapes happen on dates. (1)

75% of the men and 55% of the women involved in acquaintance rapes were drinking or taking drugs just before the attack. (1)

About 70% of sexual assault survivors reported that they took some form of self-protective action during the crime. The most common technique was to resist by struggling or chase and try to hold the attacker. Of those survivors who took protective action, over half believed it helped the situation, about 1/5 believed that it made the situation worse or simultaneously worse and better. (7)

84% of rape survivors tried unsuccessfully to reason with the man who raped her. (1)

55% of gang rapes on college campuses are committed by fraternities, 40% by sports teams, and 5% by others. (15)

Approximately 40% of sexual assaults take place in the survivor’s home. About 20% occur in the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative. 10% occur outside, away from home. About 8% take place in parking garages. (7)

More than half of all rape and sexual assault incidents occurred within one mile of the survivor’s home or in her home. (7)

What Happens After the Rape?

In a study done in the 1980s, 5% of rape survivors went to the police. (1) Throughout the last 10 years, the National Crime Victimization Survey has reported that approximately 30% of rape survivors report the incident to the police. (4)

Of those rapes reported to the police (which is 1/3 or less to begin with), only 16% result in prison sentences. Therefore, approximately 5% of the time, a man who rapes ends up in prison, 95% of the time he does not. (4)

42% of rape survivors had sex again with the rapist. (1)

30% of rape survivors contemplate suicide after the rape. (1)

82% of rape survivors say the rape permanently changed them. (1)

The adult pregnancy rate associated with rape is estimated to be 4.7%. (17)

Non-genital physical injuries occur in approximately 40% of rape cases. (18)

Rape survivors often experience long-term symptoms of chronic headaches, fatigue, sleep disturbance, recurrent nausea. (19)

Rape survivors often experience eating disorders and make suicide attempts after being raped. In addition, after being raped, survivors are 2 ½ times more likely than the average woman to have a substance abuse problem. (20, 21, 22)

What Does The Men’s Program Do About This?

The Men’s Program has been shown to significantly decrease men’s belief in rape myths by 50% after seeing the program. (23)

75% of high risk men who see The Men’s Program report being less likely to rape immediately after, and seven months after seeing The Men’s Program. (24)

Men who see “The Men’s Program” report a statistically significant decrease in their rape myth acceptance and in their likelihood of raping immediately after and seven months after seeing the program. This decline lasts longer than that of any other program evaluated in the published research literature today. (24, 25)

References

1 Warshaw, R. (1994). I never called it rape. New York: HarperCollins Publishers.
2 Douglas, K. A. et al. (1997). Results from the 1995 national college health risk behavior survey. Journal of American College Health, 46, 55-66.
3 Tjaden, P. & Thoennes, N. (1998). Prevalence, incidence, and consequences of violence against women: Findings from the national violence against women survey, 2-5, Research in Brief, Washington, DC: National Institute of Justice, US Department of Justice.
4 Rennison, C. M. (2001). National crime victimization survey, criminal victimization 2000: Changes 1999-2000 with trends 1993-2000, Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, NCJ 187007
5 Davis, T.C, Peck G. Q., Storment, J. M. (1993). Acquaintance rape and the high school student. Journal of Adolescent Health, 14, 220-224.
6 Koss, M.P., Hiese, L. and Russo, N.F. (1994). The global health burden of rape. Psychology of Women Quarterly, 18, 509-537.
7 Greenfeld, L.A. (1997). Sex offenses and offenders: An analysis of data on rape and sexual assault, Washington DC: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics.
8 Peterson, S.A. and Franzese, B. (1987). Correlates of college men’s sexual abuse of women. Journal of College Student Personnel, 28, 223-228.
9 Malamuth, N. M. (1981). Rape proclivity among males. Journal of Social Issues, 37, 138-157.
10 National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. Rape fact sheet. Atlanta: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
11 Gray, N.B., Palileo, G.J., and Johnson, G.D. (1993). Explaining rape victim blame: A test of attribution theory. Sociological Spectrum, 13, 377-392.
12 Sexual Abuse of Boys, Journal of the American Medical Association, December 2, 1998.
13 Federal Bureau of Investigation. (1995) Uniform crime reports. Washington, D.C.: United States Department of Justice.
14 Koss, M. (1992). Rape on campus: Facts and measures. Planning for Higher Education, 20, 21-28.
15 O’Sullivan, C. (1991). Acquaintance gang rape on campus. In A. Parrot and L. Bechhofer (Eds.) Acquaintance rape: The hidden crime. New York: John Wiley and Sons. 140-156.
16 Kilpatrick, D. G., Edmunds, C.N. and Seymour, A.K. (1992) Rape in America: A report to the nation. National Victim Center.
17 Homes, M. M., Resnick, H.S., Kilpatrick, D. G. and Best, C. L. (1996). Rape related pregnancy: Estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women. American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, 175, 320-324.
18 Koss, M.P. and Heslet, L. (1992). Somatic consequences of violence against women. Archives of Family Medicine, 1, 53-59.
19 Eby, K. K., Campbell, J.C., Sullivan, C.M., and Davidson, W.S. (1995). Health effects of experiences of sexual violence for women with abusive partners. Health Care for Women International. 16 (6), 563-576.
20 Kilpatrick, D.G., Best, C.L., Veronen, L.J., Amick, A.E., Villeponteaux, L.A. and Ruff, G.A. (1985). Mental health correlates of criminal victimization: A random community survey. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 53 (6) 866-873.
21 Resnick, H.S., Acierno, R., and Kilpatrick, D.G. (1997). Health impact of interpersonal violence 2: Medical and mental health outcomes. Behavioral Medicine, 23, 65-78.
22 Kilpatrick, D.G., Acierno, R., Resnick, H.S., Saunders, B. E., and Best, C.L. (1997). A 2-year longitudinal analysis of the relationships between violent assault and substance use in women. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 65(5), 834-847.
23 Foubert, J.D. and Marriott, K.A. (1997). Effects of a sexual assault peer education program on men’s belief in rape myths. Sex Roles, 36, 259-268.
24 Foubert, J.D. (2000). The longitudinal effects of a rape-prevention program on fraternity men’s attitudes, behavioral intent, and behavior. The Journal of American College Health, 48, 158-163.
25 Schewe, P. A. (1999). Guidelines for developing rape-prevention and risk-reduction interventions: Lessons from evaluation research. Paper presented to the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault.

"You want logic, but appear to be ignoring it whenever convenient."

YOU compared military stats to university stats, ergo they are comparable in all instances. I want to see a scientific report backing up your claims. A verifiable report, unbiased, with all nuances of the reporting systems displayed. As a "JAG", if you are, you should know that your logic and methods will be held accountable. Of course, I am assuming these proofs would be in a real world court room, not the brand that the military practices.

References: Do you have anything current? Something that actually compares the stats you used to the military? or is this just the first thing you could Google.

"I'm sure I don't need to point out to a Gunny that there are some in this society who casually refer to you as a baby killer because you had the audacity to serve your country. I respect your service, and your opinion. But I disagree with the underlying bias of the original article. Oh, and you asked for links and references, so here goes:"

BTW: No one has ever called me "Baby Killer" and if they had it wouldn't fit because I have never killed a baby. So you don't need to invoke the Baby Killer retort to perhaps gain a pro military sympathy from me, it doesn't work. And You don't need to respect my service either, the United States of America already has. I appreciate your disagreement with the original article, as I am sure as one who swore to defend the Constitution, you appreciate my disagreement with those who defend the military even when wrong.

See you in court "counselor"...

Gunny C, Esq.

are easily verifiable. Simply look up the footnotes and read for yourself. By the way, I didn't just put these together for this post. I've actually been compiling these statistics for quite some time as a part of project I began in law school.

I did use google, by the way, to find most of the sources. Others I found by contacting specific agencies. As far as recent reports, they are difficult to come by. Since many rapes go unreported, accurate statistics are only captured after years of analyzing known statistics and extrapolating to determine the number of unreported rapes. Which means that the most recent, verifiable studies, are still around 2000.

The most recent report I could find was a 2001 DOJ report on campus sexaul assaults, summarized here:

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=7160&pid=675

From the article: "In the survey, 2.8 percent of women reported they had been raped or had escaped an attempted rape. The report claims that 27.7 rapes occur per 1,000 female students in an academic year. The statistic for the entire year, including reports made in the summer and during vacation times, jumps to 4.9 percent."

So, just looking at the 9 month academic year, the number is 28 rapes per 1000. But, over the entire year, the number is 49 per 1000. Now, returning to the original article, the number reported for women in the middle east was 83 incidents in a six-month period, or 166 per year. Again, that is out of roughly 60,000 women in the middle east. Reduced to the number per 1000, it is only 2.7 per 1000. As I said in my original post, that is 20 times (or more) lower than college campuses.

EVER try to justify an injustice with another injustice. The number of rapes in colleges have nothing to do with this discussion. Getting the military responsible for this will actually have a chance of doing something. Saying it's OK just because it happens in colleges more does nothing and probably makes it worse. As long as there is 1 rape in the military, it is too much.
As of 2002, the number of students attending degree granting institutions: 15,312,289 . As compared to the 80,000 or so soldiers in the Middle East, thats a lot. So the argument that universities have more rapes is meaningless because they have A LOT more people, understand?

Nothing in any of my posts here has ever tried to justify anything. Please don't try to impute words to me that I never uttered, then attack me for them. As I said in my original post, "he important thing to note here is that even one assault is too many, regardless of where it happens. But lets at least recognize that, statistically speaking, the military is handling this situation far better that any university is."

If you read the statistics I posted previously, you will see that they are percentages, not raw numbers. The percentage rape in the military is 10 to 20 times lower than the percentage of rape on college campuses. Understand?

"universities experience TEN TIMES HIGHER RAPE INCIDENTS." (Has nothing to do with percentages...nor does anything else in your post as far as I can see)
Now, if you weren't trying to justify anything, and if you are concerned with the military and this situation, then why have you brought up this comparison? If one is too many, then why is it not so bad if another establishment is worse? You are contradicting your own supposed sentiment.
Your comparison is flawed because:
1.) Ratio between men and women (universities and military have much different ratios in this regard)
2.) These are only cases in the Middle East, what about elsewhere?
3.) In the military, it is less likely for women to report such cases in a system based on superiority (especially with superiors not caring)
4.) I did not see anything in that article about percentages

EDIT: not giving caring changed to not caring

I did not try to justify anything. My intention was to show that the military is actually doing a better job at addressing the situation than universities are. In fact, based upon the percentages I've seen, again posted here in response to another post, the military is doing a better job than society as a whole at addressing sexaul assaults and rapes. Again, as I have said in at least two posts here, 1 rape is too many. So we must do everything we can to stop rape, wherever it occurs, military or on campus or in society. I responded to the initial post with a comparison to point out that the article did not disclose a very important side to the numbers it presented. Left alone, without analysis (something that is woefully lacking in most reporting today), it gives the impression that the military is worse than other places, when, in fact, the military is better.

I don't believe my comparison is flawed. Adressing your points in order:
1) You are correct, there is a higher percentage of women to men in college. However, the numbers I used for comparison are percentages, not raw numbers. See post #55. The percentage of college women is 4.9%, whereas the percentage for military women in the middle east is below 1%.
2) I do not have the percentage for women throughout the military, but I would guess they are about the same. The problem here, though, is that women who are not in the middle east are exposed to non-military as well as military men, so the numbers would be skewed.
3) I disagree. Women everywhere are afraid to report. And practically all organizations are based upon superiority. What about the female college student and the professor? The intern and the CEO? The Walmart worker and the manager? All are afraid to report. And your comment about superiors not caring is off the mark. As I initially said, military leaders are fathers and mothers, husbands and wives, sons and daughters, and are disgusted as much as anyone else with neanderthals that sexaully assault women. The basis for the "not caring" accusation leveled in the original article was the 83 rapes in 6 months. I've shown this number to be low percentage-wise compared to universities, so I would say the foundation for that charge is at best weak. I've been in the military for over 12 years and I have never, ever run across a person who would condone any such thing. I also find it ironic that the military is accused on the one hand of having a criminal justice system that is too harsh, and then on the other accused of not prosecuting rapists. It simply does not make sense.
4) You are right, the article did not give percentages. Which was my original point. Why not? Because the percentages would have shown that the allegation that the military has an epidemic and is not addressing it would have been shown to be a lie.

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something that is not there. I am the father of a 6-year old girl and a husband. I have experienced second-hand the horrors of rape. What is it in my posts that offended you? What "cold, callous" attitude are you talking about? I simply pointed out the fact that college women were more likely to be raped than military women.

It is a common trick to side track the real issue with irrelevant points. How does the tragedy of college women (a group which I belong to) relate to the mishandling of rape reports among women in the military? Do you not see that diffusing the current situation in the military with arbitrary statistics would offend women everywhere? The military has a REAL and TRUE problem that needs to be addressed. With out addressing, there is no possibility of correction. To compare this situation with anything other than more appropriate ways to deal with such situations detracts from the issue at hand. Any such distraction, discounts the cruelty that these women have faced. To imply that other institutions are guilty of even greater injustice attempts to minimize and therefore glorify a flawed system that currently penalizes women who have the gumption to go against the odds and report a gender sensitive crime in an environment that is not only biased but lacks the ability to admit fault. As a father of a young girl. you yourself should be offended by these practices. You, as an active member of the military should be a spokesman for such issues. You should be speaking out and attempting to make changes during your military career, so that one day if your little girl decides to follow in "Daddy's footsteps" she will never face such iniquities and not have to face being just a statistic to be compared to statistics of a more alarming rate. If for some reason you are more offended by the fate young women face in universities, you need to find a forum to voice your opinion that does not diminish the plight of others. I could state that service women face a greater chance of being killed in action than being raped during service to their country given the current rate of mortality in the war against Iraq. But what would that do to protect America's daughters from any of these problems. If you are not offended by these injustices, that's your call. But what do you accomplish by defending these practices? Or rather attacking those who call attention to them? Who benefits from the numbers you quote? What do they prove? That the military isn't the worse institution in the world? I don't believe anyone here said or implied that. Nothing on this planet is perfect, but isn't it the purpose of life to strive toward improvement if not perfection?
The mere fact the you would jump to defend the imperfections of the US military by pointing a finger at other flawed institutions offends me. Why isn't you can't say that you are part of a flawed system, that you hope your participation will make a difference so that in the future our daughters will be protected, defended, and vindicated?
Until you can make such a declaration, I will continue to be offended by not only your opinion but your existence and participation in this system.

but since it is not, let me be absolutely clear. I will never defend any system that protects rapists, and I do believe my participation in the system will make a difference. If you read my previous posts again, you will see I have never tried to cover up or excuse rapists in the military. In fact, as a member of the Navy, I'm sickened that they even belong to the same organization I do.

There was never any intent to "trick" anyone with misdirection. Actually, I felt that was what the original article was attempting to do. I sniff an agenda behind the story specifically because the writer failed to address rape throughout society and instead focused on the military. And, once the writer did that, the writer failed to give enough information to make a judgment about how to address the problem. For example, if the statistics I have put together above are correct, which I believe they are, then perhaps that information could be used to address rape throughout society. For example, the military has enacted several educational programs to address date rape, drinking, etc, in an effort to lower the number of incidents in the military. Based upon the numbers, it has had an impact. Perhaps universities, where the above statistics show a higher incidence of rape, could learn from those programs and provide better education on campus.

Sorry it took so long to respond. I only get to post at night.

All the violence towards women in all the bases in the US are just a blown-out-of-proportion "misstatement"?

This is PART OF A PATTERN.

No amount of defending will take away the pain and life-altering experience of these women.

It's just one more symptom of how little regard the RW has for women!!!!!

Kanary

If you don't play like the gals at Ghraib, then be prepared to pay. Call it the Lyndie Englund principle.

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Do you really believe that these soldiers really want to go to Iraq ? They are not exactly begging to go . Advoiding going is not as easy as it seems .

Do you really believe that these soldiers are ok at shooting and killing innocent people ? Do you know the number of soldiers who will forever feel guilty of taking innocent lives to the point that it leads them to insanity ? Do you know how many of these soldiers can not sleep at night when they come home because they see constant visions of what they had to go through ? They did not ask to be there !

The actions of soldier does not represent all soldiers . Not all soldiers are gung ho and trigger happy . Some are over there to help as much as possible and to use PEACE as much as possible instead of having to resort to using their weapon .

I agree we need to stop the deployments to Iraq . Write your local congrgresman , senator , get out and VOTE . Let your voice be heard .

Do not put the blame on the soldiers . I am totally offended . Thats like taking Bush out of the entire equation , when he is the one at fault .

Support the troops by wanting them to come home . NOT by supporting them in harming people .

Believe me some of these soldiers do not like what they are going through . Some have went AWOL during training for Iraq deployment . And this has caused many Guard units to be put on lock down . They do not want to go ! But what can do they ! That is where we come in . We have got to change this administration . But do not blame the soldiers in this . They are being used and you should know that .

You are one busy little troll. Why don't you emulate your fellow Protest Warrior, Scott, and find a nice woman to kick?

if some chick is getting raped and she sticks a knife in the guy's belly would that be investigated. Because if someone were doing that to me ...

...to be fucking kidding. I think it's time for Mr. Sanchez to part company with his huevos rancheros.

And almost 100% of the rapists, of course.

http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10669~2414174,00.html

Dad, I've been raped," the young man shouted, as both men recall it. "There's blood all over the place."

"Who did this?" demanded his father. "Where is he?"

"I don't know," said Partridge, standing in the apartment of the man he says assaulted him. "I beat him up bad."

"Go to the base security," his father commanded. "Right now."

Partridge did just that. And then, almost immediately, he found himself caught in a legal labyrinth: Partridge's account met mounting skepticism from military investigators, and he soon faced charges himself -- a familiar pattern, according to other servicemen who have alleged abuse and some counselors who treat them.

Several weeks later, Partridge said, his story had been "completely turned around" by investigators, and he was given a choice: admit to participating in consensual sodomy and to beating up the other man, or face court-martial on both counts. If convicted, he would probably have received a prison sentence and dishonorably discharged.

Partridge decided to accept what he and his father concluded was "the lesser of two evils." In March, he admitted to the charges and received an other-than-honorable discharge. Now living with his parents, he recently started work on a construction site.