The nation we never were...Warning LONG

I want to express something that has been reluctant for me to admit. Since the fiasco of 2000 and the subsequent years I have come to a conclusion that I hate more than anything. When I hear platitudes on here about the latest that Bush has done and that he has "damaged" the country, or that the character of the country has changed since his assuming the throne. Even sentiments about like "This is not my country, I want it back!" I am saddened, for, if we are honest with ourselves, we would realize, that since the founding of this nation, that its character hasn't changed, just glossed over or hidden from its own people.

This nation was founded, in part, because the founding fathers wanted to expand it, and the British Government wanted to honor the treaties it had signed with some of the native tribes in the west. I am not saying that the colonies did not have a legit beef with the royal government, however they did not want a democracy either. If the founding fathers wanted a democracy, why did they leave voting rights up to the states? A republic yes, democracy no. Many of them believed that a true democracy would lead to anarchy. I wanted to point this out because the American Revolution is not a cut and dried issue, but complex. One of those issues were settlers out west in Indian territory. Then after the revolution was the farce of a philosophy called "Manifest Destiny", to reach the pacific ocean by any means neccessary, even genocide and invasion of another country. But even then the American appetite for conquest did not end, we acquired an island chain by this point, and forced open a port for trade with the Japanese at gunpoint. Then came a real turning point, that trumped up excuse for a war called the Spanish-American War, by questionable means "Remember the Maine!" we fought and won a war with Spain, and now we are a World Empire, from the Phillipines to Cuba, we were now a true overseas Empire. But, even though we had a taste for conquest we did not want to get our hands too dirty. So the U.S. learned that it was easier to set up puppet states than to control directly. Don't forget Monroe's Doctrine either, it basically gives the U.S. a free pass in interfering with the internal affairs of all Latin America countries without worrying too much about what the Europeans say.

For a while we decided to leave some nations in the hands of "Friendly" regimes, usually dictatorships (Cuba), while keeping others under our thumb (Phillipines), but generally the populace was satisfied and wished to be left alone, then a bump came along, called the Great War, and then it passed, and we continued to leave most nations alone, then the Crash of '29, and the realization, by the government at least, that the world is now interconnected economically. So, with the breakout of WW2 in Europe, North Africa, and the Pacific, we were concerned, with both our rubber and oil sources threatened, the government wanted action, but the people did not. Then the Japanese made a strategic mistake, and Hitler an even greater one. Though Roosevelt wanted a war to stop Hitler (he was almost ousted in an attempted coup by pro-fascist forces by this time) the people and especially the rich only wanted to fight the "Japs". The rich in this country were particulary fond of Musolini (sp?) and Hitler, with thier handling of labor unions, and its not like there was any great love for Jews either. So we fought both and won, but now we realized that being isolated geography by any country that is a threat was not enough, for now another nation, the USSR also had a global reach. If not militarily yet, then Ideologically. With a vested interest in Europe, the USSR presented an evergoing concern. So, with the detonation of an atomic bomb by this adversary, formerly ally, the U.S. in a great show of stupidity, created the C.I.A. an organization designed to covertly fight this threat. Now it would not be so bad if this agency actualy abided by its charter, but no, in the interest of national security, and with no oversight by Congress, it had free rein. Packed full of "Gehlen's Men" a bunch of "former" Nazis from Germany who had agents throughout Russia, and included such notorious people as "The Butcher of Lyons" that fucking asshole Klaus Barbie, and of course the head, Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler's master Spy. Working with American Fascists these men subverted, and through ideological protegenies countinue to subvert, democracies worldwide. From Iran to Greece, Italy, Chile, Iraq etc. they destroyed democracy to kill communism and of course, to help American Business. Only accountable to the President, the CIA uses every trick in the book to subvert elections damn near anywhere. Two days before elections, the CIA backed a coup in Greece, and when the Greek Ambassador objects, President Johnson said "Fuck your parliament and your constitution." that was in 1967. Probably the biggest acclomplishment of the CIA and the American Government is how, most citizens have no clue that this happened.

Now to the End of the Cold War, in probably the second biggest blunder that the CIA is ever guilty of, it failed to predict the fall of the very adversary that they were created to watch. It didn't help that before they even began that the agency's first spies, the Nazis were almost all double agents. Hell I left out most of the stuff people do know about, CIA smuggling drugs, and spying on American Citizens, but its not like anything has changed. I will say this, by 1987 according to The Association for Responsible Dissent more than 6 million people have died due to Direct or Indirect actions by our government, and that is only in the last 50 years or so. Not even taking into account all the other years before that. I don't know what I am more disgusted of, the fact that now at least, the U.S. Government still operates the way it always has, or that they lie, not only to the victims but to its own citizens about its motivations. So to say that the country has somehow changed course with Bush at the helm, no it has not, it is right on track, and we will all suffer for it.

.....I recall reading somewhere recently that nothing has changed since 911 other than becoming more of who we really are....very sad commentary.....

Its just that the mask of "Preserving Democracy" is coming off and most people even in this country are waking up to it. It's funny but, this whole Amerikan Empire business is not fringe, or even in the future, but the past and present instead.

I just made a blanket condemnation of the very "Idea" of what America truly stands for and I only get one response. I know I'm long winded but damn, I suck.

I just read this. Very good and interesting take. Im thinking pretty soon it will get some reads.

Of course, if I am to provide any real insight I will have to let it sink in, maybe get some coffee...

this is usually the only time I am able to post, though I try to get on before work sometimes. Just don't want it to sink to the archives before people wake up.

Off the top of my head I would say we were never pure and nothing is black and white and always shades of gray. This is just a down swing is the believes of liberals and we go up and down all the time. Bush never will un-do all that we have done since 1880's, anti-trust and all that, but he will slow it down untill we start up once more. Are we fair and good? Hell look at out start and the black and Indians, Hell no we are far from pure. We may have or may be trying harder at times then alot of countries, but I am not sure. We are not living up to how we think and who can. Face it, who wishes to give up our life style to really help the worlds poor? If we are 10% of the people using 75% of the worlds goods I do not think it is going to stop.

There is nothing wrong with what you have written. The problem is that virtually all countries act like this. It is nothing remarkable for the U.S. to act like this. The problem we are facing is not that we have acted like this and often still act like this -- it's that we have come to enjoy and revel in acting like this, like every other tinpot dictator who is too full of himself.

We have lost our ability to step outside our actions and criticize ourselves or evaluate our actions. We have stopped any attempts at self-reflection. We have stopped pondering on the big questions like "How shall we conduct our lives?" and "What is the right thing to do in this situation?" and have acted like the howling apes we so indignantly say we aren't. In short, we have lost control of ourselves, individually and as a nation.

I don't know the cure, sorry.

What I hate the most is the idea the America was Different than the rest of the world, but the reality is, that our government is just as bad as most around the world. Its just that we hold the gauntlet right now, and therefore need to be aware of the past to avoid those pitfalls in the future. Let me tell you something, when I heard about 9/11 my first thought was "Blowback", as in an unintended consequence of foreign policy, and that it exactly what 9/11 was too. though now I doubt the unintended part.

The 1979 Russian-Afghanistan (American proxy war), that gave rise to the Northern Alliance, gave the fundamentalists a tool. The military bases in the ME gave them something to work on.

The lesson of the past is undeniable: Empires in any shape or form, do not last.

It's been nice talking to you, Solon, I am off to bed now and just want to let you know this thread has lifted my spirits immensely. I have heard my conservative family say something is definately wrong, i've heard liberals say something is very wrong, but no one can say what.

I sense that people have been saying something is wrong for a very long time, but have been unable or unwilling to point out what it is.

Thank you.

We must first identify the problem in order to come to the solution.

points exactly that out.

People need to shake the idea that we are noble, even as a 9 year old learning history I sensed something was really fucked up, and 11 years later I fear people fool themselves.

We are an empire. We are not democratic, and actions speak louder than words. I admire the fuck out of Jefferson, but it is on a strict "follow what I say not what I've done" basis.

People need to be honest with themselves. I truely believe in the Chomsky quote in my signature.

I support socialism, but I would revolt for a very much regulated form of capitalism, as well. We need to change things. We think we have it bad, and we do, from what we are told we have by the government, but the countries we influence have it terrible, and always have.

The indians have been fighting for a long time to get thier treaties honored, and we have violated the land treaties we made to them, unconstitutionally, might I add.

SOMETHING IS REALLY WRONG. And do not fool yourself, an election for America effects the whole world, and neither major party, and most likely no 3rd party, is on the right side.

The cold war and the war on terrorism are both farces, they are there to give credence to our HUGE MILITARY BUDGET in the face of our poverty at home.

The constitution has been violated over and over, since it was written. It apparently means nothing at all.

You are on the right track, my friend. Don't ever let your message fall. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

edit: I love that you point out the corporate media holding Hitler and Mussolini up as models for government before WW2, very telling.

And by Gen. Butlers book "Was is a Racket" and the congressionl investigation, implying corporations conspiring to overthrow FDR b/c he was against the aristocracy.... It really, really, really makes one wonder.

double edit: Thank you for eloquently stating what I have always wanted to post here, but did not for lack of motivation and lack of headache to the possible replies.

I read Zinn's Book and the much shorter one "Lies my Teacher told me." forgot the authors name. BTW the thing that really burns me is that the attempted coup and its conspirators went unpunished. Roosevelt was concerned about civil unrest if the coup was made public, and so had the information squashed. To this day I don't know whether he did the right thing or not, if it was me I would have nailed them to a wall and publicized it like their was no tomorrow. But I shudder to think about what the people would have done afterward. I would like to hope they would have done something, and not nothing like in 2000.

Ollie North is on the radio, Pointdexter just had to resign, and is still a free man.

Bush and Co. will most likely never go to prison...

*sigh*

I really do not see what the appeal to the current system is to people. Like I said, I think they fool themselves.

Thanks for, as few have, making me realize I'm not going nuts.

The fact that most of the information is publically available now, but only in obscure books, or hidden in magazine or newspaper articles. But even sadder is the fact that even if their were broadcasts of this information on every station, I would say 80% of Americans would never believe it. That throughout its history the U.S. has been on the wrong side more often than not. What we really need is a Cultural Shift in the way we percieve ourselves, and to look hard in the mirror and ask "What are we truly about?" and even more importantly, "Where is our country headed?". If most Americans can answer those two questions honestly, then we can move on, and build a better world, with true justice and equality for all.

People like good news, and there isn't much to go around. So history is rewritten and romanticized.

It is one of the real problems I have with the application of the term 'conspiracy theory', anymore. People use it to write off situations thats are completely true, and they don't even try to look up the facts of the situation.

In an revolution, the minority will have to start it, and it will have to gain ground from there.

The cultural shift needs to happem, most definately. A view like Zinn's, or the one we share, is consider anti-American. But I view humanity as my abstract 'country', and while I cannot relate to those dealing with massive human rights issues or military occupation these days, I really want to change what they are going through, immensely.

It makes me want to scream sometimes. I just wish more would open up to these idea, even critically. I tell most people I meet to read Zinn's book and source it and sit on it. I tell people to read Chomsky, he has been espousing radical ideas for half a century and has never had anyone debunk him, except for David Horowitz, who Chomsky has confronted directly and knocked on his ass.

The left is right, it stands for peace, for fairness. No one can really argue that. We just need to make a party that is left, and is fair, and loves this species and our existence.

Especially when it challenges their world view. That is a problem of not only Americans but Human nature. If we are truly honest then lets be honest. Human being by their nature are a conservative lot, what I mean by that is that they are uncomfortable with change. We do not like to be told that we are wrong, their are 6 billion plus people on this planet with 6 billion opinions that they absolutely KNOW are right. I am no exception and neither are you, but where do we go from their? I would think that we need to help educate those that show potential in thinking outside this box. We need people who can spread the word, and to back it up with facts. That is important, and the thing is not to be discouraged by failures, but to know that you could have planted a seed that can grow, and change a person's heart and mind to your point of view. That is our goal, to hammer home the message that justice and equality cannot be brought about by the point of a gun, but by the changing of hearts and minds of humanity. To teach ourselves to overcome the prejudices and selfishness that has been the primary reasons for strife on this planet for 10,000 years. We must find a better way, we have no choice.

Can you really tell me you know people who talk about anything but what they wish to buy? Scary is it not?

As well as our unsustainable lifestyles. I find it disturbing that most people I meet our short-sighted in that they have no clue that the decisions we make right now, will reverberate for a century or more. That it what I am fighting for, a world that my children and theirs and live in, and actually have a better life than me. Apathy will be our downfall, we must fight to have people care for the future and to let them know that they have a stake in it. To let the apolitical know that they have a voice and if that voice is not heard then it is imperative that they make it be heard, to effect change in the world, to know they are not powerless.

i hear you and thank you...i want to hear it SCREAMED from the roof tops!
:toast:

is right in front of our eyes. Open to anyone able and willing to see it.

a lot of what you write makes sense..the general thrust of your article is very true ..in the past "imperialists" and by that I do not just mean the current empire..but all empires have tried to sustain themselves with lies to public..the difference with this one is..its intentions are plainly obvious for the world to see..

The first book on politics I read was the 9/11 pamphlet by Chomsky, followed by his and Herman's "Manufacturing Consent".

I could not believe how frank the language our officials and thier cohorts use. It seems any American with a critical mind who reads the news could figure out the motives.

and wanting to. Most people do not want to know, the key is WANT. Most people are not stupid, just stubborn, and it is hard for them to change thier minds.

i'm reading "All The Shah's Men" by Kinzer....my god ...increase your knowledge increase your sorrow (and shame):7

Now THIS is why I come into GD.

Your sig line alone was worth the piece.

Look forward to many more essays by you.