Libertarians

I disagree with them. But they are at least honest. They ask you to choose between paying taxes and getting stuff like Medicare, Social Secutity and a massive armed forces.

Bush tells people they can have their cake and eat it, too - big tax cuts AND big government. That is just plain wrong.

Honest conservatives who just can't stomach Kerry should vote Libertarian this year.

Asks, at the end of his diatribe against Dub: "Who's that Libertarian candidate again?":eyes:

I'd love to see such like-minded votes take away at least a point from Dub in LOTS of states this year!:D

B-)

Just saying.

libertarian: a weed smoking republican

Is how I put it. :-)

Don't wanna pay their DUES for living in a civilised society, but they want to be left alone to live their own lives, with no intervention or un-asked-for protections...

Until they get some dope that's been "stepped on", then I'll bet they'll scream for protection like the rst of us.

"Fee-for-Service" FIRE FIGHTERS??? Oh, come ON!

"all trial lawyers suck! (until you need one)" mentality.

Republicans who aren't afraid of their own genitalia.

is that in thirty years of arguing (and somehow, i always find them and argue) with them, not one of them has been able to find in their ideology a constructive position for protecting the environment, and doing so pro-actively.

the conversations always goes something like this...

"the market will correct those bad behaviors... businesses that pollute will become less attractive to consumers, who will hold them accountable... the government should just stay out of it, the market will correct...."

"but what happens if the pollution is so toxic it destroys the environment before consumers cand the market can act? what if it does permanent damage? what if the company keeps its crimes secret and the market and the community don't find out about it..."

"hmmm. you have a point there."

any ideology that fails to address a problem that could potentially result in the ending of all life on earth has a serious and fundemental flawe, in my estimation.

whalerider55

...I've had that argument. Yeah, the whole "public safety" thing is a real gotcha for Libertarians...

but it just doesn't always work. could you imagine a privitized defense program?!
i am similarly for free-market capitalism, but in situations like that see that it has its imperfections that can and must be tweaked.

Sure it'll work, just ask Rumsferatu and Cheney, they're all for privatized defense...

WMLiberal calls General-Dynamics: "Yeah, I saw the Orange Alert today and I'd like to order two abrams tanks. a platoon of marines and some mortars."

The most important issue to me is the environment. I just can't see how Libertarians could possibly protect the environment. The market would not correct it, not enough anyways. I don't trust businesses to do what's right for the environment.

how conservatives and libertarians can put such faith in "the market".

Don't they see what is going on?

Do they actually believe that if we were to just lift all regulations that big businesses would operate ethically, treat their employees and the planet well, and resist the urge to either become a monopoly or price gouge?

No one can be that naive.

To drive your point home on issues of pollution on their own terms, point out that the damage done by this costs individuals money, in terms of illness and other things, thus forcing them to subsidize the business that inflicts it on them, without receiving any profit from the business for this coerced investment in it: thus, in essence, the business levies a private tax on all who it poisons, which enables its investors to avoid paying for themselves the whole cost of their doing business at the expense of other private individuals, and this is exactly the sort of thing people must have government protection from, if they are to be expected not to take up arms and redress the matter themselves, as they would surely have the right to do with any other private person who stole from them....

Catastrophe is not voluntary. Therefore, there is no reason that helping people cope with catastrophe should be.

Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Hopefully this post won't get me banned, but oh well... I vote Libertarian in most local and state-wide elections. Of course, Libertarians don't ever win squat, but it's better to vote with your heart......... except when voting for president. This time around, the damage must be undone.

In my experience, the self-proclaimed Libertarians are a diverse bunch, as you have the conservative types that are really just fed up with the Republican party and find refuge in the Libertarian party or you have the pot smoking college kid that dabbles with being a Libertarian for a while and may stay one... but often grows up to be a Republican. However, there also exists a large group of Libertarians that follow the ideology of Thomas Jefferson and consider themselves progressives, especially on the social front. Again, in my experience, Libertarians have little to nothing in common with Republicans and especially Neo-cons... go to Free Republic and look at how much the Libertarians are scorned there.

And before I get flamed, of course the Libertarian party touts some pretty nutty platforms... but then again, in my opinion so do all the parties.

In my experience, they are too firmly welded to their dogma.

Actually had one tell me that a child starving to death was morally preferable to a government program to feed the child... since the government program would be funded by his tax dollars, forced from him "at the point of a gun" (since the government is the only entity with that enforcement power.) They live in a fantasy land, too much in their own heads. I think they should all star in their own reality tv show "Libertarian Island." Air drop them naked... maybe a pack of matches. That's it.

I disagree with them. But at least they acknowledge that their ideas would bring consequences with them. Bush's "tra-la-la-la-la-la-live-for-today" approach is dishonest to the max.

When the GOP is willing to argue for the end of entitlements as a way to pay for their reckless tax cuts, I'll respect them more. But they know they can't win elections unless they convince people that tax cuts have no consequences. So they lie.

While skydiving naked? Oops, that's a lounge topic.

They haven't progressed beyond being about 15 or so. Libertarianism (with a capital "L") is a very selfish philosophy. And most Libertarians I've met seem to be rather creepily enamoured of Ayn Rand, which is another sign of their essential immaturity.

When kids reach that age of constantly pointing out the hypocrisy of the adult world, but don't understand yet where it comes from, they are ripe for libertarianism. They crave a totally consistent philosophy that explains everything at all levels in simple, easy-to-argue terms. And they need an adversary, in this case "statists" (which George Will calls Kerry), who preferably does not exist to counterattack. I considered it one point registering the screen name "Staunch Statist" and invading libertarian chatrooms. I am actually borderline libertarian myself on most individual issues, but I think the philosophy as a whole is silly.

Wow, a new "L word"...