The "other" bubble will soon burst..

The so-called middle class is falling further and further behind.. College cost for their kids are escalating beyond reach, jobs are tenuous, at best.. Utility prices are rising, gasoline prices are rising, insurance costs are off the charts..

They have bought all the cars they "can't" afford, they have maxxed out their credit cards, they have bought the "mansion-ette", they have long ago spent the tax-payday loans that * has sent them, (if they were even eligible)and pretty soon, they will be unable to keep buying "stuff"..

Can you imagine what would happen if 1/2 to 2/3 of the "middle class" just said "I give up"..and declared bankruptcy before the admin rams throough their draconian changes to the process??

The credit bubble is about all that's keeping all those plates spinning, and I think people are just about "done"..

It's one thing, when people see that the fruits of their labors are actually making their lives and the lives of their children better, but the sense I get, more and more, is that people are just plain TIRED... Tired of Bush, tired of war, tired of the consumerism that drove their lives for a decade..

In the last month, THREE of our friends have thrown in the towel.. They are in "hunker" mode.. They sold their big cars,got rid of a lot of "extra" stuff.. They did not lose their jobs, but they are scared that they WILL.. They are in liquidation mode..

I must admit, I used to be a shopaholic bargain hunter, but in the last few years, I have to be coaxed or reminded to shop.. I have NO desire to fatten the already STUFFED wallets for already RICH people.. To me, it almost seems that when I shop, it's not for ME or my family, it's for a faceless, merciless corporation, and I won't do it anymore..

I think that people are starting to "get it".. When a majority of them "gets it", it will NOT be pretty :(

... opportunities, and, based on those, I feel like the other shoe will drop soon, too, SoCalDem.

As I skirt past tables of merrymakers, I pick up the odd, "Dude! He's an idiot! Seriously, he's such an enemy of workers' rights" and "Have you noticed how bad things are in Iraq? He said the war was over, remember???" conversations. I bite my tongue, but smile inside.

I don't rejoice in the tragedy that has befallen our nation, but it gives me hope to know that people are indeed talking to each other about the state of the nation, and are plugged-in to the fact that the election season is upon us.

And, you know, is anyone out there polling these people? Honestly, I feel the tide turning, out here in the real world, and I have a feeling the Rovians do, too...

- Jennifer

ON EDIT: Added last paragraph

if the fix is already in - this family has been skirting disaster since Poppy's war games, Ray-guns deregulation, Clinton's penis, now BFEE nightmare LIHOP. This US citizen feels no need to support the employment #s of any foreign nation let alone in an industry that now seems to leads to only one thing - increased military-industrial profits for PNAC groupies. Now, even if things change, it doesn't look that correction will matter much for this BOOMER vet and his family. Hangin' on only makes the spiral a little less steep but gravity's a powerful effect, no?

Open ridicule of *, questions about the economy, the war, . . . I even heard someone mention Dean and Kerry the other day. And we're in Colorado - land of Republicans. We sent Musgrave and Tancredo to Washington! So, maybe things are beginning to turn around.

... by about 2/3rds. If people keep on finding creative ways to get the cash to spend, it will go on for a while. If not, it's going to come crashing down fairly quickly.

Those that can find ways (new mortgage on the equity in the house, etc.) will continue to spend. Those that cannot, will not, or will face bankruptcy.

M'self, I'm amazed that consumer spending has maintained the level that it has, given unemployment figures (real and projected). I don't see how it can continue at recent levels, given the amount of money in the economy and the amount tied up in debt.

I've been in hunker-down mode for almost three years, ever since I knew that my job was threatened (it was and I'm gone in December). I'm not feeding the current economy only because I anticipate needing the money to survive in the coming years. I would guess there are many in my position.

Cheers.

but this week there was talk in financial circles of the fact that, since May, re-fi's have plummeted really bad, like 70-something %. The biggest drop since they've been keeping track.

Why do you think Wal-Mart and Dollar stores are kickin' ass?

And if it weren't for miltary spending the GDP would've been much lower.

Soon the only jobs availiable will be Wal-Mart and the military. The only ones with $$$.

Sad. Very sad.

Julie

... bankruptcy reform was one of the first things on their agenda.

until after the election.. The clock is running..

...that has noticed the precursors that lead up to such a "relevation" or is it a realization. I got rid of my SUV's over 5 years ago. When monthly budget time came around, again and again, I finally realized it was just plain stupid to pay $500 a month between payment and insurance to JUST PARK IT IN MY GARAGE. I am driving a front wheel drive econobox now, and I seldom have problems traveling and doing my business. BTW, I live in South Dakota, home of "unexpected" five foot drift snow storms.

avatar and sig line -- how'd I do? :evilgrin:

:thumbsup:

Now that the cost of the Iraq fiasco can be estimated--more or less--, I understand why the EU talking heads just sat there with their arms crossed, shaking their heads during the run up to the invasion. They said it then, America lives on credit, it ain't got the bucks to wage global war.

I think you have it exactly right.

However, in the vein of "figures lie and liars figure", the economy in terms of GDP will reflect the "fact" that the economy is just cranking right along at a healthy growth rate. This is due strictly to the defense spending associated with Iraq and Afghanistan.

This kind of "robust growth" in the economy will be the cornerstone of the FI's campaign next year.

I'm lucky to have a job, as is my husband, but there have been layoffs as factories have closed and moved to other countries. My husband works for a new car dealership, and sales have been way down. People only bring in cars to repair if they are under warranty or a service contract, it seems. Since interest rates have started rising, the number of home sales is way down, and the number of new homes constructed is going down (I work for a termite company, and we are used to pretreat new construction sites and to do inspections on existing houses before sales). I don't see many cars at the mall, but there's always quite a few at the local thrift store and Wal-Mart, though even that number is going down.

In China and India, everywhere jobs have been outsourced to the mc is doing very well.

I got THREE calls from one company practically accusing me of lying on my application, because I only had ONE debt, my new 5-yr. old used car payment, which is paid in advance by 5 months.

It was incomprehensible to them that I paid off my credit cards every month and had no other debts.So what did they do/: REDUCED MY CREDIT LIMIT!!

Be advised: if you eat beans and rice,fruit,and ramen, and try to reduce your utilities to save money, and cut down your car usage to do many errands at the same time, this is your REWARD...reduced credit limit for emergencies.

Tell the credit card *ssholes to shove it. If you really need a signature loan, go to a bank. You'll get a better rate, the bank will appreciate your lack of liabilities, and you'll be better off in the long run.

Or better yet, join a credit union.

Credit card companies are beginning to take over the world.

Where I live (suburbs n. of Chicago) I am still seeing tear-downs of modest homes to build large and tacky ones, luxury condos going up on every scrap of land and selling for extravagant prices, spoiled teenagers driving SUVs, and shopping, shopping, shopping. At work, all anyone seems to talk about is their endless remodeling projects. I can't imagine where the money for all this comes from. One thing I have noticed: upper middle class people supporting their grown children who either can't seem to find work, or are under-employed.

The realtor who sold us our house ten years ago has kept in touch, and just recently called us to see if we were thinking about selling our house -- sales are so hot here that realtors have actually run out of large, upper-middle-class-type houses to sell.

The malls are as full as they are at Christmas, and two huge new malls full of upscale stores (Saks, Nieman-Marcus, etc.) are opening next month. I have NO IDEA where the money is coming from, since the job market is deader than a doornail. I suspect a lot of the money comes from retired or semi-retired folks who have moved here from DC, NY and CA, but still. . .

SUVs crowd the roads, and traffic on 95 (N to DC and S to NC) is chockablock full of traffic. :shrug:

Trouble is, with bankruptcy I'd either get a chapter 13 (which informs my employer's HR department, people I'd rather avoid!!!) or chapter 7 - where they take everything away.

If you knew me, this would make some sort of relatively rational sense, but I can't live without my stuff - being social just isn't me. The tv shows and movies I've collected, my computer and photography hobbies... I'm going to try to make money off of it, but in this economy that's going to be nearly impossible.

I am waiting it out and hoping I don't get laid off in the next several years. I know my job is somewhat safe until 2005 (though if the department (state program) I primarily support is disbanded by the idiot governor I'd have to go back supporting a different department, one which I really don't want to work for as they're a bunch of callous freeps who'll gladly do their part to complain and get a worker fired if the worker made the slightest mistake or oversight. They don't tolerate people being human. :scared: )

If I lose my job, I kill myself. End of story. Life would become a greater hell and not worth living. Besides, by then the pukes will have "reformed" the bankruptcy laws (though ignoring corporate bankruptcies, naturally...). I will not live with no job or in eternal poverty just to pay off these bastards who created the system in the first place. Life as it is is pretty much dreary anyway and there's nothing I can do to right this country's wrongs. Or even the world's.

Anything I can do to get back at them is what I want to do.

As your sig line says, "Don't Panic!"

Usually, creditors are willing to allow you to make slower or lower payments, as long as they eventually get their money. They know if you declare bankruptcy, they won't get a dime. I'd call one of those consumer credit counseling services and see if they can help you restructure your debt. Cancel all your credit cards immediately (they'll make you do that anyway.) Build a budget that keeps your expenditures lower than your revenue. If you have to move to make it work, that's what you have to do.

Bankruptcy is a very nasty last resort. It stays with you forever in obtaining credit. But working out a payment plan is looked upon much more favorably, and you can get back on your feet faster.

Don't give up!

I estimate it'll be 5-6 years before I'm out of debt. And I've cut up the cards. They're evil.

I've eyeballed a service which has been around since 1998. They would negotiate with the creditors to actually reduce the amount of debt I owe. Roughly down to 40 cents on the dollar, they claim, though they add in another 20 cents for doing this. :eyes: Though not a BBB member, they have had a reasonably good report and have been around since 1998. (if they were a new service. Something about convincing creditors to chop off half the debt I've created doesn't sound right, though they say my credit report won't be adversely affected... but I'm desperate enough to do it.)

a new service! It takes ten years for the regulators and lawyers to catch up to crooked rackets, so you'd better investigate this one thoroughly.

When I got into some trouble about 10 years ago, I hired an attorney to help me out. He renegotiated with my business lease folks and got them to reduce the debt. So it can happen. I'd probably give it a shot.

Good luck to you.

... a lot of those "consumer credit counselors" are really just fronts for the CC companies. Their goal: figure out the absolute maximum you could pay leaving no discretionary income and collect it to pay your debts.

These outfits may or may not be a "fair deal", I'm betting most of them aren't.

that will work with you and not charge a fee. Do not pay a fee in your first or second stop to resolve this problem.

What you describe stinks to high heaven. Call the Better Business Bureau and the State Attorney’s General consumer fraud department and ask questions about that company before you act. There are those who prey on the desperate.

There are non-profit organizations -- Consumer Credit Counseling Corporation (?) is one -- that will negotiate with your creditors. They don't get it down that much, but what they do is get everyone off your back. You make one payment to them a month. They take a very small fee to help fund their work. I think there are a few others, but I don't like the sound of this one.

Eloriel

I have often wondered how so many people get the money for their lavish lifestyles. I am guessing that many younger adults (20s and 30s) are receiving money from Mom and Dad, thus maintaining the bubble. The arrangement would be kept secret in many cases. Where do Mom and Dad get their money? They have had many decades to figure out a successful method of accruing money.

I'm one of those adults who is receiving help from parents. No, I don't live a lavish lifestyle--their help allows me to live at the impoverished student lifestyle that befits an unemployed PhD. They understand that my career will never get off the ground if I have to start working a menial job full time instead of writing and publishing. They are using up their savings, but counting on the fact that my husband is about to finish his residency and will be able to pay them back. I think probably lots of people are doing this--only I would guess that most of their children won't have the means to pay them back (I'm thinking of friends whose parents support them to become musicians, artists etc).

Poppy may have taken early out after about (+)25 years in the CWA (and plenty of stock/options&free services), Mammy may have never seriously driven a car (cause it makes Popppy feel like a man) and never may have worked a day of her marriage (exception: stipends for singing like an angel at little church weddings), 48 yr old son may never have married and may have cut deal w/Poppy to live at home rent free so as to amass fortune for mowing the grass(MALES ARE RICE BOWLS)while one daughter (CHATTEL BABYBEARER) may have won prizes for whoring for the military/industrial/government complex (PARENTS SO PROUD) and the other suffers the indignities of the BFEEs purposeful alienation of IT team player types who must also be shunned to avoid the spooky appearance of VENDER/CONTRACTOR "conflicts of interest."

Please note: healthy female grandchildren may not deserve protection from an abusive situation nor might they deserve the attention of their grandparents on B-days, holidays, etc..., in fact, shunning sinners is best, but the neighbor kids are oh-so needy and the disabled grandchild is a treasured KITTEN forever, never a calico CAT.

This scenario represents the RW freeper value system at its best(?) - Ah yes, The Good (MEN), The Bad (WOMEN), and the Ugly (INSANE EVIL FUNDIES)!

A divorce pushed me into bankruptsy, then she went bankrupt too. I could afford a better lifestyle, and my job is relatively secure, but gas just jumped 10 cents a litre in two weeks, they just discovered the pension fund is empty so they doubled my deductions and I have to pay off Ank's student loan and one of the kids needs braces (which pretty much wipes out new teeth for me).

The way things are going, I'm gonna be living out of my van in 40 below weather.

preserves body heat - YOUR VAN OR MINE! (Oops I've sorta got this little problem - dysfunctional state-sanctioned economic status against which you can't constituionally discriminate - un&under-employed/married!) Isn't there an answer - dont' want to find you frozen in the next van over with the drive-in speakers frozen to the glass.